Financing in Portland>Question Details

Vincent, Both Buyer and Seller in

I would like to update a question I posted earlier. Our house is abount $50K on the negative end so we are unable to refinance to take advantage of t

Asked by Vincent, Mon Jul 12, 2010

current low rates. Our ARM loan will end in January of 2011. Also, our loan is a jumbo loan.

Our financial situation has not changed, meaning we still have our jobs, but I am afraid that when the loan adjusts it might increase to a higher rate that we cannot afford.

Are there options available that would allow us to a refinance to a fixed rate at this time? Our loan is with Wells Fargo Financials.

Thanks in advance for your answers.


Help the community by answering this question:


First, I agree that Wells Fargo has a very good model for dealing with homeowners who are, or who may be, in trouble.
Second, if you don't ask, then you don't get. I would ask Wells to review your loan and explain your concerns and see what they say. You might be surprised.

Third, similar to a loan modification, there is a new tool called a "short re-fi". From the lender's perspective, it is cheaper for them to adjust your loan, or give you a new loan, than to have you conduct a short sale.

Know that you will need to prove hardship.

Good luck.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jul 13, 2010
Keith Sorem, Real Estate Pro in Glendale, CA
I think Margery is right - Wells Fargo is who you should contact. I would avoid a 3rd party modification company. The HUD approved counselors are really backed up. Good luck in any case - I wish there were more options available out there. When values go down, any risk taken previously won't look so good. A lot of decisions were predicated based on moving, values increasing etc. You may be stuck at this point but I think that Margery's suggestions are the best at this point. If/when you do talk with anyone, make sure to take their name and contact information and take good notes. There is a lot of really inaccurate and bad information that is being passed on to consumers. I also think that Marvin makes a good point - if you can, talk with someone that is a manager.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jul 13, 2010
I feel the need to point out to Marvin and make it clear that I was talking about Wells Fargo Financial specifically, (as I stated) and that IS a separate division/section whatever... bottom line, they process their own short sales currently, separate from Wells Fargo. But as I also mentioned, Wells Fargo announced last week that it's closing WF Financial so that will probably change, just don't know know or when.
At this point, Vincent, the important issue is get your lender, which you said was Wells Fargo Financial, or a HUD counselor to talk with you about your options! good luck
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
Someone suggested that your loan may actually drop. What is its index? That is, to what is it tied? 11 district cost of funds? T-bills? etc. Do you know how to find your index? You can call your lender and ask. You can go to the web and check them all at What is your margin? That is the lender markup above the index, or base rate.

There are NO options to refinance an upside down home. There is only possible loan modification. I specialize in doing opinions of value for the lenders when a borrow has requested a modification. i do HUNDREDS of them. I do them 7 days a week. Ive met THREE people who actually got a decent mod. THREE. The lenders have no incentive to help you keep your loan. They are subsidized by the government (not MY government) who gives them OUR tax money to stay afloat without having to worry about people stopping payments. One giant lender was given $640,000,000 to help them be able to mod loans and as of a press release several months ago had modified less than 60 nation wide!!

$640,000,000 of tax money! Hmmmm $640,000,000 divided by 60? What did they make per mod? Do the math. Almost exclusively the homeowners are turned down months into an agonizing process. They are them too far behind to make it back up and they lose the properties. You can try short selling even if its just to buy time. You can simply stop making payments and live there for months and months and save your money. Is that an honorable thing to do? Nope but thousands are doing it. You signed the papers and its no the lenders fault (directly, anyway) that the values dropped.

Someone below was impressed with Wells Fargo. NOT ME. I worked for them as an underwriter in the beginning of the year and found them to be terribly unorganized and months behind in everything.

Others are correct that you should call Wells but ask for an ops manager in the loan dept. Dont fool with flunkies in the marketing cubes, lol

Above all---STAY AWAY from idiots who claim to be loan modification experts. Almost all are just connected to some parent company or private individual who knows a little bit more than nothing. They will take money and do nothing or do what YOU can do. It aint rocket science. Many claim to be hooked to lawyers who know how to yank those lenders. HA! The lenders cant be strong armed by anyone, and THOUSANDS of loan modification people/companies are being arrested and prosecuted all over the nation. Some states are outlawing private loan modders.

Check your index/margin. Rates have never been this low. You may be pleasantly surprised about your payments. What about your house---is there upside to it later? The area is spotty. Some areas have more short term future potential than others, and some areas will still be dropping for months.

How do you know the homes value? Dont take ZILLOW, TRULIA etc etcs word for valuation. I like TRULIA a lot---it has a lot of good info but its data cant be used to accurately extrapolate a final value.

MArvin VOn Renchler
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
Hello Vincent,

Because your loan is jumbo, you do not fall under the DU Refi Plus or the Freddie Mac refi plus program which is designed for those who do not have the equity to refinance but aside from value would otherwise qualify. So you would fall under the stimulus program. This means only your current servicing lender can modify your loan.

If you have not already called them this would be your only option aside from selling unless you wish to see how your rate plays out by allowing it to become variable. If you have contacted Wells Fargo and was unsucessful in modifying your loan, then there is an option of calling a HUD certified liason to work on your behalf free of charge. Anyone not on the list below does not truly work for free. Know because they do work at no charge, they will be very busy so be patient and don't wait until it's too late before contacting them.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
Hi Vincent
I answered your question last time but since then I have a "short sale" with Wells Fargo Financial where I represent the seller. I've been VERY impressed with their department. They have a process which is completely different than most lenders. And even though that's not your question, I think they have shown me that they are easy to work with. I would say, ask! they are very easy to reach and responsive so you could give them a call to discuss your options.

Having said that, I don't know what will be in the near future because last week Wells Fargo announced that they were closing Wells Fargo Financial. I don't know yet how that will affect our situations.

But as I said before, HUD has FREE counseling. You only pay for the credit report of about $40 I think and that's it! they call your lender for you, and help you figure out the best solution for your particular loan.

The one I used was the African American Alliance for Homeownership. You don't have to be African-American to use their services. But you have to take the first step, which I know is hard... and that's start the ball rolling! Waiting will only get you to a place where it will be too late. And Vincent, you're the only one who cares if you keep this home or not, so no one else is going to do it for you!

Better to know now whether you can refinance so if that' not an option, you can find out what your other options might be available. Give them a call, they're really nice and very knowledgeable about all this!! 503-595-3517

and if you want to talk with someone that just went through this successfully, feel free to give me a call and I might be able to answer more questions for you.
Best to you
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0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
I'd check to see if the loan has a "conversion option" - some adjustable rate mortgages can be converted to a fixed rate for limited fees.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010

If your objective is to stay in your home, you should try calling Wells Fargo and ask for the loan modification department. Once connected with them, explain the situation to them and notify them that you will not be able to refinance because of the downturn in the market but you do want to continue making the same current payments and stay in your home. Tell them that if they are not able to assist, you will have no choice but to let the house go to foreclosure. That is a little harsh, but sometimes it takes the implication that they may have to take the house back to get them to assist. If you are able to continue making the same payments you have a fairly good chance of getting them to modify the terms of the loan. Most people are in a different situation where they have lost their jobs and are looking to have their payments lowered. Those individuals are having a very difficult time getting their loans modified.

If Wells is unwilling to modify terms for you and you don't have a significant amount of cash to put toward a refinance, the next option will most likely be a short sale of your home. It is slightly better than letting it go to foreclosure but the differences between the two are a much longer conversation. Try getting Wells to modify the loan first and if that doesn't work, feel free to contact me and we can discuss some other options. Good luck.
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0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
Talk to your lender. They too don't want problems to come up, as they will be in the same boat as you if you can't sell or make the payments. Now is the time, not after your in trouble. In 6 months the home may be worth even less. Depending where the market goes, but larger, high priced homes are being hit harder than the more affordable ones.

Best to you.

0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
You may have the option to refinance depending on the current loan programs available, your credit, and your financial situation; even though the home is upside down. Another option is to request a loan modification from the bank that will either fix the rate or extend the ARM adjustment to a later time. I work with homeowners in this situation daily. I give lots of great info at no charge or obligation. You may contact me for more info at 800-921-5002.
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0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 12, 2010
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