Ldahla

9 Brinscall Ct.

Sold 08/23/2007 for $442,740
Sold 08/31/2009 for $360,000

loss = $82,740 - Sun Nov 29 2009, 06:04

And I just received a notice that 1 Rivington Way is now offered at $326,500.
These are the former prices from the link in my prior post:


Grand 1 Rivington Way 1,551 $453,600
Carrington 17 Mill Road 2,518 $768,100
Dorset 19 Mill Road 2,076 $645,690
Dorset 21 Mill Road 2,076 $652,750
Dorset 3 Mill Road, Unit #203 2,076 $684,480
Dorset 5 Mill Road 2,076 $686,460
Essex 9 Mercy Street, Unit #709 2,150 $564,030 - Tue Sep 22 2009, 12:04

I've got 3 Mill road, which is your basic Dorset, now listed at $499,000 in the mail today. And a link to an old listing for it that is surprisingly still live, where it was listed at $684,480:

http://www.rivingtonrealty.com/rivington/quick.php

This isn't really big news, as the Dorset basic model is listed as starting at $499,000 on the WCI site. This one does have upgrades, though, so it is beyond the basic list price, although it is not the one with the nailed down "designer" furniture. - Mon Sep 21 2009, 14:04

Here come the price reductions . . .

From August 8
"5 Rivington Way - it's a 3BR 3/1B with 2900 sq ft. and a fully finished basement. A Carrington model?
The price is reduced from $759,000 to $675,000. Comes with all the furniture & upgrades, etc.
."
Turns out it is a fully furnished Dorset model home and the price is now $584,000

$759,000 was delusional
$675,000 was ridiculously ambitious
$584,000 is still painfully optimistic, but at least it is a start in the right direction. - Wed Sep 9 2009, 08:15

They are smoking serious crack at WCI. I just received an email advert for the Rivington "super models" (clever? no . .)

Prices are sky high. A Dorset for $759,900.

I don't think even Michael Jackson had drugs that powerful. - Tue Aug 25 2009, 10:27

I seem to do better with, "Don't by this POS . . ." lol - Sun Aug 9 2009, 09:04

Thanks Jim. I don't know, maybe so? I'm kind of getting into it these days! I definitely like the research, but I am not too sure I could sell anything. - Sun Aug 9 2009, 09:03

Here come more model homes:

5 Rivington Way - it's a 3BR 3/1B with 2900 sq ft. and a fully finished basement. A Carrington model?
The price is reduced from $759,000 to $675,000. Comes with all the furniture & upgrades, etc.

3 Rivington Way - a 3BR 3/1B with 3600 sq ft, fully finished basement. Fully furnished with all the furniture, upgrades - etc. $699,000. This was previously the address of "WCI Communities Design Studio", so I guess it includes office space.

And the sellers of 3 Brinscall dropped their price from $399,000 to $379,000 - so it is now overpriced by only about 50K. - Sat Aug 8 2009, 09:05

"The Bonita Springs based WCI Communities has confirmed that they built at least 200 homes with potential dangerous and defective Chinese-made drywall.

WCI Communities is currently operating Chapter 11 bankruptcy and expects to face about $40 million in claims related to defective drywall. WCI has agreed to set up a trust to help homeowners affected by Chinese drywall as part of their reorganization plan.

Earlier this month the popular home builder Lennar confirmed that they built about 400 Florida homes using the allegedly defective product.

Homeowners of homes fitted with Chinese drywall have seen extensive damage to electrical components in their homes caused by foul sulfurous gases emitted from the allegedly defective drywall. Several homeowners have also complained of headaches, difficulty breathing other potentially dangerous health problems.

The EPA and the state health official have conducted numerous tests to determine the potential risks associated with Chinese drywall; however, no conclusive data is yet available." - Thu Jul 30 2009, 09:28

WCI is liable for the Chinese Drywall case - here is the WSJ on that:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jul/20/wci-creates-trust…

Or here:

"WCI Communities is currently operating Chapter 11 bankruptcy and expects to face about $40 million in claims related to defective drywall. WCI has agreed to set up a trust to help homeowners affected by Chinese drywall as part of their reorganization plan. "

http://houston.injuryboard.com/defective-and-dangerous-produ… - Thu Jul 30 2009, 09:26

At 1680 sq ft the model name for 11 Shawe should be the Bradhurst. In 2007 the Bradhurst was offered by Keller Williams at $480,630.

At $299,970 that is down $180,660 from 2007 pricing.
It is $117,930 down from the current WCI site price of $417,900.

I've seen Rivington condos languishing on the market. A prime example is 3 Brinscall, which is 1659 sq. feet and listed at $399,900. It's been on Zillow for 273 days with no takers. They need to take note of the price on 11 Shawe. Nearly the same amount of sq. feet for $100,000 less.



It goes like this:

Dorset in 2007: $600,000 Dorset on WCI site now $499,000 Dorsets should sell at $375,000. (unless they have uber upgrades like the recent model sold for $450,000 and have never been lived in.)

Need to dump a resell Dorset? Start at $359,900 and I bet you get a line of buyers.

Essex in 2007: $640,000 Essex on WCI site now $520,500 Essex will sell at around $405,000 - with uber upgrades and never lived in, maybe $465,000.

Need to dump a resell Essex? Start at $399,000 and you will get a line of buyers.

You pay your money, you take your chances . . . I'm just sayin . . . - Wed Jul 29 2009, 21:09

11 Shawe was foreclosed on and is now offered at $299,970.

It was purchased in Feb '08 for $427, 510. Ouch.

MLS #: 98430128 - Wed Jul 22 2009, 08:39

Hi Jonathan,

It seems the Rivington condos are selling for around $100,000-$150,000 less than they were offered in 2006-07. And that is for the new, never-lived-in units. Resale is taking a real beating. I watched numbers 3, 7 and 10 brinscall for quite a while, and the owners now have them listed at around $40-50K loss, but no takers.

WCI Communities is selling off some properties. It is conceivable they might sell off Rivington to another developer who will finish the community, but even so, there is no telling at what standard of living.

I feel for Rivington buyers. It must have looked good going in - but it's seriously painful now even for a bystander just watching . . . - Thu Jun 25 2009, 19:37

Hi Jim - so how does that affect sales or buyers? (I know nothing about tax liens)

For example, 24 brinscall is the model home for the Essex style - the one being sold fully furnished and as is. Now it has a tax lien.

If you had a buyer who wanted to purchase it - what does that do to the transaction? - Wed May 27 2009, 08:18

Whoa - check the danbury online records - Rivington just got slapped with 180 tax liens from the city of Danbury on all properties at Rivington they still hold. All the properties they have listed on their site now have tax liens on them.

go to the link and use the "simple" search. Type in WCI Communities in the name spot. Then put in the dates with the year in long form. If you run 05/15/2009 to 05/27/2009 you will see 186 hits. 180 of them are the tax liens. - Wed May 27 2009, 07:46

Okay, that is down from $615,000 on appraisal. It looks like Rivington condos are averaging $100,000 - $150,000 on loss from the first list price, and resellers are cutting around $40-50K off their list prices from the purchase price.

Ouch. - Thu May 21 2009, 18:12

And 2 minutes ago I received notice 11Shawe is for sale for $300,000.

It was purchased 02/08 for $427,510 and was a rental for a while.

That is probably the first realistic listing price I have seen for Rivington to date. It's a short sale MLS 98422527 - Thu May 21 2009, 13:37

It must be 19-29 Mill. I wonder what model that is? I thought 19 mill and 19-29 mill were the same place. (Shows what I know) - Thu May 21 2009, 13:27

Thanks Jim. I am tracking the depreciation on Rivington. There was an interesting article out about how lenders have really stepped up the assessment of condo purchases - looking into whether the community is viable, how sold the units are, how many are for sale, etc. It made me think that anyone trying to purchase at Rivington is going to have a lot of hurdles with financing. - Thu May 21 2009, 10:08

The Warranty Deed on 19 Mill Road was filed May 18. Can anyone confirm the sale price? I was told it would be $497 but am curious if they got it lowered before close. - Wed May 20 2009, 19:20

That's a weird offer. They really need to drop the prices. Is the deal a suspension of payments for a year or do they pay the year or what? Confusing . . . - Wed May 20 2009, 10:22

Rivington recent sales:

Dorset 29 Mill is under contract at 460K. (down from 653K , to 565K, to 499K to sale)

The Allerton at 20 Warrington closed in Feb. at 350K (down from 419K to 399K to sale)

The Carrington at 31 Mill closed in Dec for 505K (down from 769K, to 643K to 499K to sale)

Carringtons 17 Mill and 25 Mill are both closing in April for $499,000. (down from over 750K)

The suped up red Dorset at 19 Mill closed last Oct for $497K (down from over 650K) - Fri Apr 24 2009, 10:47

Hi Fred - Rivington has ongoing issues that have a dramatic impact for buyers and sellers, hence the ongoing discussion and updates.

Also, it is an interesting situation in the broader scope of the ongoing economic stress and the aftermath of the implosion of the housing bubble. - Thu Apr 23 2009, 08:05

Rivington Update: two new listings on Brinscall Ct., number 7 and number 9

7 Brinscall owners paid $463,605 Sept/07
Listed at $439,000 April/09
1598 sq f
losing 24.6K at list

9 Brinscall owners paid $442,740 in Aug/07
Listed at $400,000 April/09
1598 sq f listing says 1730
losing 42.7K at list

And sadly, those list prices are pretty optimistic. There was a never-lived-in unit of the same size listed for $429,000 for over a year with no takers. I think 3 & 10 brinscall have been for sale for over a year. - Thu Apr 23 2009, 03:28

I do not know much about Four Corners, but I think Rivington is in a very bad situation. For owners who can afford to be there and do not have any intention of moving, the situation will ease up as years go by. Those who bought into Rivington thinking they could move within a few years are in a real bind. I don't think even a top tier corporate relocation would touch the negative equity there.

The fact that there are newer, swankier (is that a word?) condo communities being built next to Rivington make it that much less appealing to buy into an unfinished, no longer new community with all the WCI troubles.

I really feel for the residents there. They won't have any recourse against WCI (the line for claims is insanely long in their bankruptcy case and it is closed to new claims), and the best they can hope for is that the community is bought out by a company that will finish it as it was planned. But it is possible, and likely, Rivington won't ever be the community it was planned to be. The buyers there are stuck. - Tue Mar 31 2009, 09:39

Morning John,

Looks like I way over-guestimated the base prices anyway. The housing report this morning is grim. Take the base on an Essex and shave 20% off and it starts at $416,000 for a normal unit on the market. Then add in the WCI bankruptcy and canceled phases & canceled amenities and, well, I don't think your 50% is off the mark. They should list the 3 bedrooms in the $300,000's.

If they actually plan to sell anything, that is. WCI is hemorrhaging money so fast they could sell out Rivington and it wouldn't stop the blood flow. - Tue Mar 31 2009, 06:48

Update:

The Dorset model listed on the WCI site for $559,900 was just put on MLS for $499,000. Actually, they just listed three Dorset models, 3, 13 and 29 Mill Road for $499,000 (3/2.5 2056 sq. feet). Blurb from the listings:

5% TO SELLING AGENT IF SIGN BY 3/31 AND CLOSE BY 4/15. STAINLESS STEEL APPLIANCES-LAPACHO WHITE PLANK WOOD FLOORING CHERRY WOOD CABINETS-GRANITE COUNTERTOPS MB-CHERRY WOOD CABINETS AND MARBLE COUNTERTOPS

Common charges $287 taxes $7485

Don't get too excited - the Dorsets already list on the WCI site at $499. But these apparently have loads of upgrades, which was why 29 Mill Road is on their "quick delivery" list still at $559 - and based on the sales history of Rivington, the typical upgrade package is about $60,000. So for a sense of pricing - take the base price and shave $60,000 of it (without any upgrades) and you have the known lowball for Rivington.

Eg: Essex, 60K upgrades = $520,000 (current base)
Essex, no upgrades = $455,000 low fig

Then again - I'm not a real estate agent so don't rely on MY math lol - Tue Mar 10 2009, 14:32

The deadline to file claims against WCI was Feb. 2nd. By the end of the day there were 3700 claims filed.

The top 5 claims exceed $1.2 billion.

One of the biggest claims comes from Bank of America. The bank filed as an administrative agent, saying it and other lenders are owed more than $535 million for money borrowed, interest, fees and other expenses.

The Bank of New York Mellon Trust Co. has three claims, adding up to more than $665 million.

Keybank National Association, another lender, has a claim of $10.2 million for a debt “swap agreement.” Wilmington Trust FSB has made claims for itself and other lenders, valued at more than $224 million under a senior term-loan agreement.

The Law Debenture Trust Co. of New York, seeks more than $168 million for “floating rate junior subordinated notes.” - Sun Feb 8 2009, 12:51

WCI reports $576.8 million loss during one quarter of 2008

BONITA SPRINGS — Bonita Springs-based WCI Communities Inc. reported a loss of $576.8 million for the quarter ending Sept. 30, up from a loss of $69.7 million a year ago.

As it looks to reorganize under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, the homebuilder continues to struggle to stay afloat. The company outlined its quarterly losses in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, saying “there is substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern.”

. . .“In conjunction with our advisers, we are implementing strategies to aid our liquidity and our ability to continue as a going concern. However, such efforts may not be successful.”

Things are not looking good, and that is only the damage up to Sept. 30. - Sun Feb 1 2009, 15:58

That listing says the list price was $399,900 and it sold for $300,000. 14 Warrington.

1659 sq. feet makes it the Allerton model, listed on WCI's site at $417,900.

Is that right? do you think that reflects a typical price drop on the Rivington condos? It seems the sales are averaging a good $100,000 under list. - Tue Jan 27 2009, 22:51

This is from a Rivington rep regarding the furnished Essex model:

< The Essex model has $150,000 of beautiful upgrades, including brazilian cherry floors, cherry cabinetry and granite countertops in the kitchen, custom closet systems, crown molding, security system, sound system, flat screen TV and more. You can see pictures of the model on our website at http://www.wcicommunities.com. Select a community (Rivington), select homes, select Essex model.

The furnishings are in addition to the $150,000 of design selections. I don't know the brand names of the furniture off hand but the home is fullly furnished, including area rugs, lighting fixtures, mirrors, decorative objects. Just no dishes, towels, pots and pans. > - Sun Jan 11 2009, 08:57

Wow - thanks Dana - great info!

The Cambridge going for $300,000 is pretty telling. It is still listed as starting at $435,900 on their site.

I think Rivington does have a few more things in inventory because on their site they list an Isleby model. It is a 2/2 with 1229 sq ft. One of the condos that is in a multi unit building as opposed to a townhome style. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a few of those on hand.

I can't see them building anything new, do you? Not with their homes going for $150,000 - $250,000 less than listed. I am way skeptical! - Sun Jan 11 2009, 08:40

Just received notice about the fully furnished models on sale at Rivington.

The notice has 21 mill road (Dorset) at $499,000 (not furnished)

5 Rivington Way, a Carrington model home, 3 br 3 bth 2900 sq. ft. fully furnished at $759,000. And they mean FULLY furnished:

< FULLY FURNISHED MODEL BEING SOLD AS IS. 3 1/2 BATHS FULL FINISHED WALKOUT BASEMENT WITH PATIO ALL PICTURES, DECORATIONS COME WITH UNIT, JUST MOVE IN EQUIPPED WITH SECURITY SYSTEM, AUDIO SYSTEM>

24 Rivington Way, Essex model home, 3 br 3 bth, 2150 sq. ft. fully furnished at $619,000.



I wonder then, if this is the last of the WCI inventory at Rivington? Is everything else listed a resale? And if they are selling their model homes, does that mean they do not anticipate showing models to any future customers and The Hills is done? - Sat Jan 10 2009, 15:44

Updated on the Rivington site: The Dorset model 29 Mill Road that was listed for $653,200, and then dropped to $565,000 was just dropped again today to $499,000. That's 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath 2076 sq. ft. Probably still pricey for Danbury, but at least they are starting to get the picture on the need to drop their prices - a LOT. - Fri Jan 9 2009, 12:24

A WCI rep just emailed me and said that Carrington sold for $505,000. That's 6K over the offered price. Wonder why?

She also says they are listing the fully furnished Essex model (see the models on the Rivington site) for $619,000. That's about 5K over what other Essex models closed at, with every upgrade offered and outfitted with designer furniture, wallpaper, etc. Interesting. It's kind of hotelish in decor though. Very Marriott.

Maybe some corporation will buy it as a guest residence. - Fri Jan 9 2009, 11:37

it looks like 31 Mill Road sold on 12/31/08 but the Warranty Deed is listed as incomplete. It is also listed with two affidavits, so I am guessing the incomplete status is tied to getting the paperwork square with the bankruptcy case.
That is the 3 bedroom Carrington model condo that was originally listed for $769,555, then dropped to $643,500 but was offered over the holidays at $499,000. I am curious what the buyers actually paid for it. - Thu Jan 1 2009, 08:10

So if you bought at Rivington for $615,000 a model that now lists for $520,000 (and isn't selling at that price) just how upside down would you be on your mortgage if you had to move? Those folks have only lived there since summer 2007. They can't have much in the way of equity. - Wed Dec 31 2008, 00:03

Oops - my WCI link was goofy. Here it is again http://www.wcicommunities.com - Mon Dec 22 2008, 22:21

WCI had to post their October operating financials because of the bankruptcy case. It's even more grim.

1. Go to the WCI website http://(www.wcicommunities.com)
2. On the right side you can click on "Reorganization",
3. In the gold column on the far left click on "Court Documents."
4. then look to the top bar and click on "Docket".

#885 filed 12/19/2008 is the Oct report.

A lot of the people in Rivington bought with very little down. A lot of 80/10/10 or 80/15/5 setups. The negative equity on their mortgages must be devastating. - Mon Dec 22 2008, 22:19

Jim - WCI released their financials under their bankruptcy case. The data is from Aug/Sept and it is not looking good. Here, have a peek and see what you think:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1137778/0001193125082…

I don't imagine sales were up for Oct or Nov. - Sat Dec 20 2008, 05:50

Hi guys - a quick update. I just received a sales pitch from WCI:

Carrington Townhome
3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths
2,557 sq ft
WAS $768,100
Now: $499,000

Which makes me wonder how many Rivington residents are very upside down in their mortgages - Sat Dec 20 2008, 03:53

For anyone who doesn't know the Icahn/WCI situation - Billionaire Icahn tried to buy WCI in spring 2007 for $22/share. WCI turned him down because they thought he wasn't offering enough money. Ican still held a big chunk of shares and board position(s). So WCI files CH 11 in Aug 2008 and as of this morning, WCI shares were at 5 cents/share.
A lot of people held onto shares thinking that with Icahn in there he would bail out or "save" WCI from what looks like impending doom and CH.7.
That hope just evaporated. Icahn dumped all his WCI shares (probably to go take over Yahoo, but that is a different post).
I do not know if the shares were sold off in the market or some buyer stepped in, but the lack of announcement on some major deal or sale is sort of telling by omission.
WCI is WCI now, without the glamour of Icahn's involvement.
Right now I wouldn't buy anything from WCI if they paid me a 20% commission to do it myself. Hold you cards, watch for Ch. 7. - Fri Dec 5 2008, 13:13

Not a good sign for Rivington or WCI:

Dec 5 (Reuters) - WCI Communities Inc:

# ICAHN'S HIGH RIVER LTD PARTNERSHIP AND AFFILIATES REPORT 0 PERCENT STAKE IN
WCI Communities - SEC filing

# CARL ICAHN REPORTS 0.007 PERCENT STAKE IN WCI COMMUNITIES AMOUNTING TO 3,848
shares, as of December 4

# ICAHN'S HIGH RIVER LTD PARTNERSHIP AND AFFILIATES SAY SOLD STAKE IN WCI
Communities in a privately negotiated transaction

((Bangalore Equities Newsroom; +91 80 4135 5800; within U.S. +1 646 223 8780)) (For more news, please click here)

COPYRIGHT

Copyright Thomson Reuters 2008. All rights reserved. The copying, republication or redistribution of Reuters News Content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters. - Fri Dec 5 2008, 07:53

I agree the property will eventually have value, but I think 1-2 years is terribly optimistic. 5-10 years is more realistic - look at what happened when the housing bubble burst in Japan. We are in a recession, and home prices probably won't even bottom for another 2 years. The glut of inventory is big and growing bigger.
Rivington must compete with other condos in the Danbury area. There are other equally lovely places that are more affordable within minutes of Rivington, and they don't have the spectre of bankruptcy.
I don't wish Rivington any ill will, but I expect WCI will end up selling off the rest of their land there, and some other company will build on it. I will be surprised (and it's not like I can't be completely wrong here) if Rivington is developed in the three phase plan originally conceived or by WCI at all. - Mon Dec 1 2008, 17:43

Which is probably the amount the current owners are all upside down on their mortgages [ouch!] - Mon Dec 1 2008, 11:41

Hi Sonia. I think right now the only amenities are the smaller community pool and a "tot lot" in The Hills townhome phase - the only phase built. The other two phases - Encore 55+ and "The Village" for younger more urban types - are on hold indefinitely. Look at the community map linked below - the other bigger amenities weren't supposed to be anywhere near The Hills area.

The bigger amenities - a much larger community pool, tennis courts , clubhouse, meeting house and "village center" with shopping were all tied to the other two phases. Rivington can't add those amenities because there aren't enough owners to sustain them. Rivington went from a planned 2000 owner community to about 100 owners.

With the expectation of 2000 owners, the monthly condo fees were already $382. To build the other amenities without the other 1900 owners - that would make the fees astronomical. - Mon Dec 1 2008, 10:39

Jim, where are you signed up for WCI emails on Rivington? I'd like to get on that list. - Fri Nov 21 2008, 07:02

Hi Jim go to http://www.wcicommunities.com

Click on REORGANIZATION (on the right side of the main WCI page)

on the gold menu bar on the left click on COURT DOCUMENTS

That takes you to Epiq Systems page and there is an icon on the top that says DOCKET click that

Every filing in the WCI bankruptcy is there in PDF.

Go by the docket number on the left and you will see #731 is the lien. It has a brief description in the middle column and a link to Images on the right. Click on IMAGES and all the scanned documents for that filing will drop down in a menu. Click the MAIN DOCUMENT and it will download the PDF to you.

The download is free and safe =) - Tue Nov 11 2008, 21:58

Rivington "The Hills" just had a half a million dollar lien slapped on it by J. Iapaluccio Inc. for unpaid construction bills in Bankruptcy court. See http://chapter11.epiqsystems.com/docket/docketlist.aspx Go to docket # 731 and click on Image and you can read it for yourself.

I would be very, very wary of buying anything at Rivington. The condos are not worth what they were priced at pre construction with a housing market due to drop another 20-30%, half the development is stalled, the amenities are not built and WCI is in Ch. 11 and delayed on posting 3Q report. It doesn't look good at all. - Tue Nov 11 2008, 17:09

Thank you very much Don. The job relocation in this case is a new job with a new company, so it is entirely voluntary. I think this owner is going to eat the loss.

Great answer - super clear =) - Wed Mar 4 2009, 07:42

I have a follow up question - I did not realize you have to qualify for a short sale. So if an owner is underwater by a significant amount (60-100K) but they have a very high paying job (over 200K) and can make their payments, can they not qualify for a short sale? There isn't a hardship, just a possible relocation for a new job (and more money). The owner just bought an overpriced property that has lost serious value.

Are they stuck eating the loss? - Wed Mar 4 2009, 01:09

A very strong YES! We bought our home in 2005, but did not get stuck paying bubble prices as we bought the classic fixer upper in a great neighborhood. We plan on living here for the next several decades, raising our four children here and forging long, lasting friendships with our neighbors (well under way).

That being said - if we were not already homeowners, we would still be looking to buy. I don't think we are unusual in the market - traditional family with strong ties to our city and a desire to put down roots in a community, school system, neighborhood, etc.

However, if we were in a business where my husband was prone to relocation for job opportunities, I think we would still be looking to buy, but we would probably rent a few years and watch the fallout in the market. Many sellers are still clinging to the ridiculous price brackets of 2004-2006 and have their home listed a good 20-60K more than they are worth or will be worth next year. Again, only a problem if you expect your lifestyle to necessitate moving within the first 5 years. - Wed Mar 4 2009, 01:04