Concerned Citizen

To Real Estate Pro in 11971: There you have it, there are some agents that get it and are thinking about on how to adapt to the new reality of consumers electing self-service or looking for non-traditional brokers. Not sure how many agents participated in this discussion, but you are the first one to understand where this question was coming from. I hope that you figure out a way to adapt and wish you success in doing so. - Wed Jun 25 2008, 13:31

Get back to me after you work as an agent a few years.
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That's all you got now? What I said is based on a fact (since that is how I bought my home) and what you said about your client not being able to see a home without a Buyer's agent is 100% false. So why do I need to work as an agent to know that. All I have to have is common sense... which is something you apparently lack so you resort to using things like "STFU" haha. Good one. - Fri Jun 6 2008, 13:27

JR
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Then why am I meeting my buyers tomorrow to show them homes? They can drive by, but they can't go in. They can't go in because they don't have the code, a key, or permission. Don't tell me how much I don't need to drive people around, obviously you have no idea what it is we do. You are making statements with no basis in reality now.
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BS. They CAN go in - and they sure don't need you. They can just call the Sellers Agent and have him/her show the house to them without you. That is what I did and it worked out just fine. If the sellers chose not to use an agent, then the buyer would just call the seller and could get an even better deal on the house because both parties would cut out the middleman. In my case, the seller's agent was super willing to give me back the 3% since I did not bring another agent to the table. And that was on top of the nice chunk of change I negotiated off the asking price first.

So you see, your statement is absolutely false. - Fri Jun 6 2008, 13:18

Craig Scanlon - here you go, another realtor trying to tell me that i was ripped off on the sale/purchase simply because i did not use the almighty and the all knowing realtor. Why don't you read my replies to many other realtors before you who think they are the only ones who know how to pull out info on the comps in the area and how to hire a good home inspector to make sure that the house being purchased is not a money pit. Until then, Craig, reading comprehension > you.

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the money I saved, I am loving the new house, I have not been sued by the people that bought my old home. They are happy, I am super happy and the only ones that seem to be unhappy are the likes of you, Craig. I did not come here to gloat at all. I was just asking a question wondering if you all are looking for new jobs or trying to change your business model. This question has been answered many times over by all the realtors on here. Simple answer is No, we are not scared, we will continue as if nothing has changed, our clients love us and we love our clients. Great, awesome! Please continue what you are doing! I wonder how many of you will end up or are already using sites like http://www.hungryagents.com to get business and thus driving down the average commission for everybody else. I am sure all of you will say, oh, we would never do that. OK, but the point is there ARE other agents who are ALREADY doing it. And that is only one example and that is only a start. There will be more sites like that. And that site offers FULL SERVICE agents just like you, by the way the ones with the lockboxes, the codes, the keys. All kinds of other ways to drive down commissions is coming, but go ahead and keep ignoring it. And no, i am in no way affilliated with that site I just love the idea of it. Look up "disruptive technologies" in my link below. Then sit down and really think about....

Here is to get you started:

A disruptive technology or disruptive innovation is a term describing a technological innovation, product, or service that uses a "disruptive" strategy, rather than a "revolutionary" or "sustaining" strategy, to overturn the existing dominant technologies or status quo products in a market. Disruptive innovations can be broadly classified into low-end and new-market disruptive innovations. A new-market disruptive innovation is often aimed at non-consumption, whereas a lower-end disruptive innovation is aimed at mainstream customers who were ignored by established companies. - Fri Jun 6 2008, 09:33

JR, I do remember specifically providing a link to hundreds of other people who are very dissatisfied with the current state of affairs in your business. You don't have to listen to me and you can continue to call us "trolls" or whatever, but the fact is there are many many many others who are fed up. They all are potential clients that are realizing that they would rather cut out the middleman i.e. you. - Thu Jun 5 2008, 12:13

Candace, please provide an MLS id for the property that you are talking about. It would be very interesting to see and compare it other properties.

Deborah, i am not calling anybody names - maybe Anthony is - but that's his choice. It might be just his way of showing the frustration with your business practices.. who knows. I just hope that other buyers and seller who read these posts will realize they have a choice to buy and sell without a realtor. In my case it worked out very well and if they are willing to put in a little bit of work, they can also be successful in their real estate transaction.

Buyers and seller should think long and hard before blindly trusting an agent with their biggest investment, as you all say. They should research and know that they have a lot of options. If they feel more comfortable working with an agent, by all means they should. But even in this case, they can, for example, go check out a site like http://www.hungryagents.com and see if they can find a realtor hungry enough to cut their commissions.

And that is my point - sites like http://www.hungryagents.com are changing your business and you WILL make less in commissions because of it. Maybe not tomorrow, but it is coming so keep burying your hand in the sand while other REALTORS are bidding down each others commissions. - Thu Jun 5 2008, 12:08

To all realtors on here: since you consider yourself professionals, you should take some time and listen to what your customers are saying. Here is a very good discussion to get you started. I highly recommend reading through all the pages and seeing what your potential and former customers are saying. Then maybe you will realize that Myke, TD, Anthony and others are not the only ones who are sick and tired of your industry that has been unfair to your customers for many, many years.

Actually, I doubt you will ever understand but at least BUYERS and SELLERS that might read this thread will have another place and another perspective to get their information from buyers and sellers and not realtors who are biased and only interested in protecting their antiquated system.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/814179/ - Thu Jun 5 2008, 09:37

Sandra - I paid $400 to my real estate attorney that I used several times before for other transactions. ALL your other questions I answered before especially your assertion that I somehow got a lot less than what I should have. Read my reply to Jennifer just before. Why do you continue to say that I got less for my house when i told you i know for a fact that i got MORE than other comps per square foot PLUS i saved the commission?? Comps do not lie... Is that your defense mechanism or something?

It's been a few months since the sale now... no problems. My attorney and handled my side of the transaction perfectly. The buyer had their attorney. Buyer hired a house inspector and I bought the buyer a home warranty. They did the title search etc etc. We used the SAME fill in the blanks forms that realtors use - my discount broker provided a ton of those and my attorney reviewed them just in case. So I do not see anything that a realtor could have done here that i did not do here.

I do not mind paying if I see a benefit. My attorney provided me with a real benefit and charged me a fixed amount. My home warranty, title search, inspector - all provided services that I paid for and charged me a reasonable fixed fee... and not a percentage of a huge sum. I do NOT see any value in a realtor given that I can do what they do just as good if not better and definitely with more dedication myself while saving a LOT of money in the process and having fun doing it. - Wed Jun 4 2008, 14:13

Jennifer, I guess you have not read all my replies. For the 100th time - I KNOW that I made more money when I sold my house myself than what I would have gotten if I had to pay the realtor's commission. I also KNOW that I saved money when I bought my new home without a realtor. I KNOW that by comparing the price per square foot on comparable properties that were sold before and after both of my transactions. And I am not talking about an insignificant amount. We are talking about THOUSANDS of dollars on both transactions.

So buyers and sellers who are reading this - it CAN be done. Take it from me - I am just a regular guy that has interest in real estate and saving money in exchange for some work. YES, it requires some work on your part, but the work that I put in can be translated into HUNDREDS per HOUR and I definitely do not mind that.

Of course all the agents on here will try to scare you saying they are the only ones that can get you the best price both buying and selling. That's because they know that the change is here and they do not like it and choose to perpetuate the myths of buying and selling. They all compare themselves to doctors and lawyers which is ridiculous because as other have mentioned, it is very easy to become a realtor. No, I would not go to a Vet to get a surgery but Yes, I would and I do work on my car. See the difference? To become a doctor it takes years and years of training, to become a car mechanic takes a few months maybe. Same exact thing with realtors. ANYBODY can become one.

There are a couple good realtors in this discussion that might actually know something about real estate. The rest know as much or even less than me and I do not claim to be a real estate professional. In any case, we as clients have a choice and we should not be scared by realtors claiming that they have some devine power to get us the best price possible. It is simply not true. - Wed Jun 4 2008, 10:44

I can access the stripped version of the MLS where I am ... sites like realtor.com etc. But those sites are not as robust as the true MLS that I was able to get access to through a friend in the mortgage business. For example, realtor.com listing does not show the all important agent only comments and some other info is missing.

And yes, I am sure I can do your job as good and probably better than most so called "realtors" out there but 1) I do not like to decieve people as many of so called "realtors" do daily 2) Why would I want to jump ON a sinking ship that is your business??? You all seem to complain that you supposedly already make the minimum wage... it is only going to get worse.

For the last time, let me make it clear. I never said that your business will go away, since there are people who want your services. BUT, your whole model will change and a lot of you will be out of business as more and more people who want to save some money get the right tools to sell/buy their home on their own cutting out the middleman i.e. you. Lets see... Borders is still in business but they probably sell more coffee than books because of amazon. Brokers still exist to sell you stocks, but they don't make as much on stock selling since e-trade and the likes. The list goes on and on. Your industry has been protected for the longest period of time, but it is finally changing. The consumer is getting empowered and you don't like it. Well, too bad ...

Overinflating price IS a crime against your customer most of whom dont know that they will end up selling for a lot less than if you priced their home right from the start. But you go and lie to them about how much money they can make in order to get the listing. This is especially true when you know that the seller is interviewing the realtors and you are one of a bunch. So you blow smoke up you know what, get the listing, and then a month later start saying that it is time to lower the price. Too bad you just lost the all important "freshness" of the listing which will result in a lower price down the road. But you don't care, because percentage wise, the difference in commission you get is not big. Dirty, dirty games you play. If this happened to me and my friend, it happens to a lot of other people and as i said, i see it just by keeping track of some of the listings around here. - Fri May 30 2008, 10:33

Dina, you wrote "and access or no acess to MLS really doesn't matter to the consumer all that much." I am a consumer and Tman is a consumer. Access to MLS matters a great deal to me because that is how I was able to get the info I needed to negotiate a very good deal on my house purchase. If it matters to me, a consumer, then it matters to other consumers as well. I am not talking about those consumers who want and need hand holding. I am talking about those of us that see the benefit in doing the leg work ourselves to save some real money when it comes to buying and selling. So you see, your argument is false right there... because I am a consumer and I am telling you that your statement is wrong.

The point I have been trying to make that most of you fail to understand is that yes, your profession will not disappear BUT you will have less business because more and more people will start realizing that they can do without you all while saving some money. You will be left working for the people who truly need the hand holding, nothing wrong with that...

Here is a real life example that just happened. My friend had his house listed with a realtor who inflated the sales price to get the listing, as many of you do (go ahead, deny that too). His house has been on the market since late last year. Of course, about a month after listing and no interest the realtor started to say how the market changed all of a sudden and the need for lower price. My friend lowered the price. Guess what, it sat again because the price was still way to high. They dropped it again. No offers. Meanwhile my house was sold and i told my friend that he should try to sell it himself and reduce the price by the 3% that he built into the price to cover the comission. He did just that and the house just sold just a couple of thousand under his asking price! He used the same discount broker as me paying just a couple of hundred to list on the MLS.

Now, if his realtor was honest he should have never inflated the price to get the listing. Yes, all of you will now say you dont do that and you do a CMA and blah blah blah, but that is BS. I keep track of the houses in my neighborhood and see lots of them that are overpriced when they are put on the market only to be dropped a month later. You will probably say that it is all seller's fault but i truly believe that realtors inflate the value to get the business. At least two of the realtors that i interviewed did that to me. It is a dirty game and I am glad i recognized it and sold it myself in a lot less time without letting my house go stale! - Thu May 29 2008, 12:49

More great news for the consumer and bad news for you realtors trying to protect your MLS. Read here http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/27/real_estate/realtor_settleme…

Your comissions will go down, no matter what you are trying to say here. Like I said before, information wants to be free and it seems that the Justice Department thinks the same.

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department gave a boost Tuesday to online real estate brokers - and potentially their clients - by forcing new industry policies to give Internet-based agents access to home listings they were previously denied.

The tentative settlement, which still requires court approval, could save consumers thousands of dollars when buying a home. Online real estate agents often charge discounted commission fees and allow buyers to review listings at their own pace.

For years, however, Internet-based brokers were blocked from accessing more than 800 multiple listing services nationwide affiliated with the National Association of Realtors. An MLS is a database of properties for sale... In 2006, for example, consumers saved up to 1% on the price of a home by using an online broker, Garza said. That year, the median home price amounted to over $225,000, with median commissions of more than $11,000." - Tue May 27 2008, 14:15

Wow, I guess this struck a nerve - good! Lets see... when i sold my house I had a REALTOR representing the buyer. She had all the training that you mentioned. BUT she was so incompetent that the deal almost fell through. So much for something unique about REALTORS. I found an alternative way to close the deal while still saving at least 3%.

Advertising - I created a website, took many pictures, created a tour, created fliers, posted on craigslist and more importantly on the MLS which cost me a couple of hundred. This all took about 2 hours of my time. More importantly, I only had one property to sell and i had a lot more at stake than some realtor that I would hire.

Pricing - I sold the house for about $5 more per square foot than an identical house that sold one month prior. That plus the 3% made/saved me a LOT.

Buying - I have been looking at the area where I wanted to purchase my new home for about a year. I knew the trends from looking at properties shown as sold on trulia.com and comparing them to prices/descriptions of when that house was first listed. I also had access to your precious MLS - yes, real MLS that you guard so much that has Agent Only comments. Some of you said MLS is available to public - that is BS since realtor.com does not show these comments among other things. I knew a friend who works in a mortgage industry and could run listings for me.

To all of you stating that I might have gotten a better deal if I used a realtor - BS again. House was already listed lower than comps in the area. I got it for a lot less per sq. foot than neighbor's house sold 2 weeks prior! Yes i know that is no standard negotiating amount. What I meant is that I negotiated my deal first and THEN took ANOTHER 3% off from the asking price because I was not using a realtor. End result - in this declining market my house was still purchased at the lowest per sq. foot price in the neighborhood - even several months/sales later later the houses are selling for more per sq. foot than what I paid. So don't go telling me you could have done better - BS again. This has nothing to do with luck, believe me. Lots of research and not having to pay someone to hold my hand.

Driving around - i knew where I wanted to live. I could check Street View on trulia and google which helped rule out 80% of the houses. Satellite views showed any stuff i did not want near by like roads, highways, etc. I don't need some realtor driving me around in their huge gas guzzling Lexus/BMW SUV.

Yes, everyone knows that Zillow is not 100% accurate. Thanks for stating the obvious. But a combination of recent sales info on trulia/zillow plus the description of the houses when they were active is very accurate. That plus common sense will get you VERY far. The point was - the likes of zillow and trulia are empowering us to do a lot more than ever possible. These tools will get better and better and will take away your clients. You can not argue that at least can you? 5 year ago I would have to use one of you and I did for a prior purchase. But now - I do not have to. It is not just me. A bunch of my friends who have common sense did the same thing and saved a ton. All of us would have been your clients, but not anymore!

You must have noticed that you have less business right? Maybe that's why you have all this time to sit on trulia and post comments instead of actually working?

Yes, i understand that there are people that need handholding. Go and work for them. But the point is, the tide has turned and you must realize a lot of you are going under. If not, well just wait and see I guess. - Tue May 13 2008, 14:19

To the Voices Member from March 10... Funny but the link you posted to the house that you did not think will sell for 239K sold exactly for 239,900 on March 27th. Shows you that none of you can predict anything and these "answers" should really be taken with a grain of salt.

http://www.trulia.com/homes/Virginia/Newport_News/sold/29237… - Fri May 16 2008, 09:30