Cameron

K - I was happy being a spectator in this thread but I just have to respond back after reading your thread

- The consumers on this thread aren't asking it for the whole kit-n-kaboodle free. You gotta pay to play. That's only fair.
- It's ironic that the I keep hearing arguments along the lines that we built this, thus we own it, thus we don't have share we don't want to. Fine as far as it goes. The irony is that internet you are using right now was developed by researchers for their own use in educational institutions.
- I believe eBay is a good analogy to use. They compile the listings, own the system, yet don't charge consumers to search the statuses or have varying levels of access to the data. People who aren't comfortable lising their own used clothing can hire an agent to do it. Granted that you can't compare the value of the most expensive purchase many consumers will make to the low-cost merchandise found on eBay but I just imagine if eBay had made it difficult for buyers to search for items by their status by keywords by brand etc. etc. etc.
- Realtor's are a monopoly, plain and simple. Glib answers by JR purporting that having Realtor.com means MLS isn't a de facto monopoly are just silly. In the end, it's the MLS that powers everything, including Realtor.com. Think of the MLS, the platform, as Microsoft Windows. There is no t even a threat for a Linux, Apple OS (for the tech geeks out there) because of the network effects that gives MLS its power also ensure that nothing will come close to replacing it. If it did, it would become another MLS!
- The houses are a commodity and every commodity has an exchange to buy and sell it. MLS is the exchange for the houses. Yet, unlike any other exchange I can think of (NYSE, Nasdaq, CBOT, CBOE, etc..), MLS perpetuates information asymmetry in which its agents have more information than its consumers, kind of like the old days of having traders in the pit of the NYSE before their gatekeeper role got replaced by computers. I'd have to imagine that traders who made their living as gatekeepers probably didn't fair well in the long run. Traders who added value by synthesizing that data into proprietary insight would have been best positioned when that tide turned. Same for Realtors. The change is real and its coming. Realtors who don't make a living from strictly being gatekeepers will have the best chance to survive. - Fri Mar 21, 2008

I think Deborah and others have nailed the true spirit of the thread. I have absolutely zero interest in seeing the name of the seller, their contact info, their lock box code, etc. etc. I'd consider paying $60/month to get access to listings (as far back as they go) of various statuses, days on the market, etc.. I understand that with some old listings on the MLS in Chicago, there are pictures still attached to that listing. What an insight that would give! Comparing before/after pictures of the same property should it come into the market to see what upgrades have been done, comparing how taxes and assessments have evolved, cutting through any tricks played by realtor on the true days on the market, seeing the original listing price vs the final listing price. Or taking a look at listings under contract to see what price level are they at or looking at expired listings to see what not to do. Or taking a look at rental listings to see what comparable properties would rent for, should that be a valid concern. It will make for a much more knowledgable buyer and seller. The value-add of the Realtor would be in their marketing ability, intimate understanding of the process, tying random pieces of data into an insight that buyer/seller without years of experience would be hard pressed to get to, and ensuring that emotion isn't part of the overall process so that a market-based outcome can be easily obtained.

Good question about who owns the data. I'm guessing here but would think that any MLS would make the Realtor's sign a contract right at the beginning that gives it full control of the data. Does that happen in real life? If not, then whomever is responsible for gathering and entering the data own it. Other than private contact information, I don't think the seller owns the data because they didn't take the time to come measure and input into the MLS. It's like someone taking a picture of a subject. As long as the subject gave consent to have a picture taken, its the photographer who owns the picture. BUT, and it's a huge but, the Realtor's don't own the publishing medium, which is the MLS. So, hmmmm, it would take consent of the both the Realtors (authors) and MLS (publisher) to be able to release the data to the public. The real question is what do you gain or lose by doing so? Currently, the MLS is a monopoly in any given market. Sometimes there may be more than one MLS that covers the same area but i"m guessing that that is rare. Anytime a monopoly is broken up, the stakeholders in that monopoloy suffer. But we are not asking to break up the monopoly. In other words, the input of the data is still monopolized. It is only the distribution of the data that is under discussion here. So who gains, who loses? The MLS gains to the extent that they have people like me willing to pay a high fee to get access to listing related data, the MLS loses to the extent that the weaker Realtors who rely solely on access to data as their reason for being will likely get pushed out and thus won't subscribe to the MLS anymore. The agents who currently rely on the IDX feed to provide content for their websites may lose a portion of the traffic but I would think that not everyone will want to pay more to get more. There will be a majority of clients out there who will be content with the free IDX feeds.

I'm not entirely sure that this is strictly a win-lose situation. It could be a win-win. The buyers/sellers win, the stronger Realtors win, the MLS wins, and the real estate industry wins because it might cull the weaker realtors all together. - Wed Mar 19, 2008

I don't know how much agents pay for the MLS today, so insert whatever monthly figure is more realistic. If the subscription was monthly, meaning there was no annual contract to get into, I would support an even higher monthly outlay. I don't need the confidential stuff. Just show me full and complete listings from today, from yesterday, from 10 years ago. Show me listings that are pending, that are active, that are expired, that are closed. Allow me to have the same advanced search options that are available to a realtor. This shouldn't be viewed as encroaching on a realtor's turf because this is just data while a professional realtor's "raison d'être" is to transform the data into insight. Sounds like it works in the Santa Clara County. Sign of times to come? - Tue Mar 18, 2008

I think the Internet is making the tools of a professional realtor available to a lay person. Today I found a website that lists closed transactions with picture of the front of the house, closed price, % off list price, bedrooms, bathrooms, sq. footage. Since I am interested in townhomes mainly, I was able to look at a picture, decide it was a townhome or not (easy to tell once you have gone to enough open houses), narrow it down to # of bedrooms, etc. to do an 80-20 version of the much touted comp analysis. I now have a good idea what townhomes in the zipcode I'm interested in with the right # of beds/baths/sq. footage tend to go for. This gets me 80% of the way there.

The remaining 20% is more of a gut call. I've been to enough open houses now to have a good idea what kind of upgrades are more or less expected at a certain price level. I've a good idea of what assessments would be, what taxes would be, etc. I'm basically matching a realtor's knowledge of pricing for a very specific, narrow niche of the market, which is *my* niche. In the process of doing so, I also tend to immediately shave 2.5 - 3% off the list price with zero negotiation.

Sure it takes time and perserverence to get a handle on the market but, hey, it's fun. Checking out homes and learning about the market is part of the fun. Now that I can also see closed transactions, its better b/c now I can calculate price per foot, avg. discount off list, what upgrades are non-standard at a specific price point, how location may add or subtract a few points.

Given all the above, I humbly beg to differ that a buyer's agent can negotiate the best possible price for me. Of course, others mileage may vary. - Mon Mar 17, 2008

Tom, you bring up some good specifics, so I'll add more detail to see if it helps. I will eventually get a realtor but for now am just building up my market knowledge.

Location is either Tri-Taylor, Little Italy, University Village
Age is new to 4 years ago
Upgrade is standard (living room hardwood, kitchen has granite, bathrooms have tiles, etc..nothing fancy)
Size of complex, contruction quality, light: I dunno how to answer this.

Does that help? - Mon Mar 17, 2008