Home Buying in Arizona>Question Details

Charles, Home Buyer in Canada, KY

what is the agreement with Realtor rights as far as presenting property? If I put a rejected offer in with

Asked by Charles, Canada, KY Thu Jan 10, 2008

realtor A and then wish to put a new offer in on same listing with a new agent how does the system work....would the original agent be entitled to a claim of commissions? What if I decided to put a offer in on a listing that a previous agent had shown me in the past but no offers had ever been made? Thanks to all.

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How ever you decide to proceed with or without your existing agent, you really had best have a conversation with the listing agent as well prior to writing another offer. If I was that seller or the sellers agent, I would be extremely leary of you as a buyer the second time around without a full expalnation of exactly why you cancelled the first time. If your actions are not understood, you may be deemed as a buyer who cant make decisions, a little too dangerous for a seller to deal with.

PS, going with another agent will open up a massive can of worms for your new agent, and since procuring causes in AZ is determined by "a series of unbroken events that lead to a sale," Your agent has a dang good chance of prevailing, while your "new" agent might get nothing. Call the broker of your existing agent and ask him or her how that matter may be resolved.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
Hi Charles,
I had no question as to whether or not you are a credible buyer, but that is exactly my point..the seller and sellers agent have no idea the real reason you cancelled....lack of response from your agent while a short time period remains. Very understandable. Your actions may be deemed as quite suspect without an explanation. I dont blame you a bit for cancelling within your time period in light of the circumstances, and I dont think the seller or sellers agent will either, but right now, the seller probably thinks you just dont want the house and will wonder why you didn't make repair requests the first time around if you indeed wanted the house without an explanation. Without an explanation, they will not understand why you are coming back with another offer and people avoid what they can't understand or relate to. If they envision you to be an unknown factor or a loose cannon, they may opt to take their chances with the market, rather than miss an opportunity to sell to a legitimate buyer while being tied up with someone they have (falsely) dubbed a "flake." Good Luck!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
The buyer broker's agreement, if you had signed one with REALTOR A, would potentially give REALTOR A a claim to an earned commission if you buy any property during the time period called out by the buyer broker's agreement.

Then there's also the "procuring cause" aspect of real estate. In general, if REALTOR A was the first one to show you a property (which is usually easily figured out by looking at lockbox records), REALTOR A is the procuring cause, and has thus earned the commission. In the absense of a buyer broker's agreement, however, procuring cause is difficult to enforce.

Of course, the best course of action is open, honesty. Better to be open, honest, and direct, than to get surprised later in time. If the reason you want to use REALTOR B, is because you feel you've found a better REALTOR, then tell REALTOR A that. REALTOR A can probably work out a referal agreement with REALTOR B that makes it worth everyone's while, and you gets the representation that you desire.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
First, you sound like an A+ client to me.

Your concern over the issue of mold, once raised during the inspection period, is a serious concern and one well worth cancelling over, if you can't get to the bottom of it before the inspection period ends. When you are working toward a 15 day escrow, then by day 8, I'd be twitching myself if I had something as serious as an undetermined mold issue still lingering, with no apparent resolution in sight.

Holly's point about procuring cause, and how its defiined is quite accurate, "an unbroken chain of events that results in a sale". With a cancellation, I think most people would consider that the chain of events have indeed been broken, and they certainly didn't lead to a sale. And without a buyer's broker agreement, REALTOR A is relying on my first statement to get himself back into an unbroken chain of events that result in a sale.

Also, if you did want to find out the licensing status of anyone in Arizona, here's the link to the Arizona Department of Real Estate:

You'll be able to look anyone up by name, click on their brokerage, and see who the designated broker is. I don't know why ADRE doesn't have a domain for that IP address for the database. I would joke about our fees and the cost of a domain at GoDaddy, but I'll save that one for after their next Super Bowl commercial.

Good luck in your purchase.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jan 14, 2008
We will likely pursue the property with another offer. I will spend the cash to fly down again and personally inspect the property in the next couple of weeks...that will give the seller some time to address the issues. I emailed and left a voicemail for the selling agent and asked her to contact me so I could explain the situation and she could pass this information on to her clients. She did not repsond. I suspect she called my agent (as I had a somewhat odd call from him later ) which I thought was inappropriate but there was nothing derogatory in my email so no damage done. I will carry on with my agent for this property and will babysit it through escrow rather than deal with complicating the issue with another agent. I can't call the broker as I believe my agent owns his own brokerage. If Im mistake there I think I would have a heart to heart with my agent first as I think he is a decent person and there is no personality conflict at all.
At his point I want to get to the finish line. I dont want to spoil a good meal at a great restaurant because the waiter was slow getting us the bill and running the credit card.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jan 11, 2008
Tough one. Agent #1 can make a claim with the seller for the commission as they were likely the procuring cause of the sale. Talk to A's Broker and ask them to reassign a new agent fomr the same firm. You can do this it just might blow up in your face. The listing broker has to take heed in this situation as they may be in a bad position on behalf of the Seller!

Good luck sorting this out!


Dirk Knudsen
"The Real Estate Doctor"
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jan 11, 2008
Please do! And let us know how the agent/broker issue was resolved as well. I sincerely hope you are able to get the home bought! BTW, know anyone who might want to trade a few AZ lots for something on or near water in BC?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jan 11, 2008
Holly, I will take your suggestion and call the selling agent tonight. I ultimately feel for the sellers who have dealt in good faith; I don't know what if any info will be relayed to the sellers agent or the sellers. Thanks for responding. I will keep you posted on what happens.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
I agree with Holly. You know you're for real, but the seller's don't know you from Adam. Those are the people who are going to have to be convinced. I have buyers who tell assure me they can buy, they have X down payment etc, etc, and I have to ask them to put themselves in the sellers shoes: they don't know you and need proof.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
I agree with Holly. Call the Broker of the first agent and let him/her know that you are not satisfied but understand that it is his company that initially sold you on the property. Brokers are business people and want more than anything to get the sale done.
Just be honest, and make sure everyone involved knows why you are offing twice. Get the mold issue out in the open and give yourself time to inspect and close this time so you don't get pinned up against the wall. Write a cover letter to that affect and make sure it gets to the seller, that way they don’t think you are a flake.
Good Luck
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
Good points. Without all the specifics, I was making an offer out of country and the sellers have vacated the property months ago and are in another state not very close. There was a question of mold among several other items. I never heard from either realtor about how the issues were to be addressed. We had made a decison on the property . All cash. 15 day closing. Without this issue on the inspection we would have moved right along. I am surprised that neither agents were responding to the inspection report right away to move the deal along. The only contact I had that seemed helpful was the escrow rep. I own two revenue suites now and my primary home. I have bought and sold 3 other properties. I have never had an experience like this one. I think to describe us as "dangerous" is a little bit strong. I am a qualified buyer and a professional. This is a major dollar transaction and we are not flakes. This is costing me time and money as well. If the listing agent reccommend that a future offer be rejected in this market I would think he or she would be making a very poor businesss decision. But I do think your advise to contact the initial agent is a great idea.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
Thanks Steve.......that is what I would have guessed. Good solution. And No I did not sign any agreements. I had a deal collapse and I feel badly for the sellers and the selling agent however there was a real lack of urgency during the inspection period of 10 days from my agent. On day 8 I emailed and decided to flat cancel. I did get a rather fast return call this time! I could revisit the property and put in another offer with a new agent if some issues were addressed, or I could revisit with the original realtor who I like personally but professionally I question.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
So you are a buyer, and you do did not sign a buyer/broker agreement with an agent to show you homes and put in the offers for you?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 10, 2008
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