Wow. Was the wool ever pulled over my eyes. I thought Trulia was here to help us Realtors, but all along they have been trying to take food off of my family's table. Shame on them.

> I think even if we knew more about how google really works its limited because it will keep changing as eveyrthing does.

Good answer, Cheryl. Change is definitely the only constant. That's a great excuse to give up!

I think even if we knew more about how google really works its limited because it will keep changing as eveyrthing does.

Here's a short blog post regarding Trulia funding and their blog statement, "no one really knows how google really works but everyone would love to learn more about it"....

Read on...

>>>>Trulia is not the only company doing this.

Trulia is the only national real estate portal doing this successfully. I encourage agents to find & use good widgets from non-competitors. Linking out to non-spam sites doesn't hurt you in the least. Linking out to your competitors DOES hurt you.

Trulia is tricking less savvy agents to link back to them, and then takes over their local search engine results.

Trulia is not the only company doing this. The web is a veritable widgetapalooza. None of what we do is underhanded, and it's all completely industry-standard.

Being angry with Trulia is entirely your right (although it saddens me, because we're really not out to get you), but I think the record should be accurate and balanced, and saying Trulia is the only one doing this plainly isn't true. It took me exactly 15 seconds to find a real estate widget with a do-follow link at the bottom showing attribution to the originating Web site.

>>>>Just to be clear...Trulia is the only one doing this?

Yes.

"The only widgets that are hurting your rankings (presently) are the trulia widgets"

Just to be clear...Trulia is the only one doing this?

Artur -

It's very easy. Just look at the widgets you have installed on your site, and see if any are designed by Trulia (they will have a trulia logo if they are.) The only widgets that are hurting your rankings (presently) are the trulia widgets. If you need help, shoot me an email - eb(at)ericbramlett.com

Ronnie, I really didn't want to spend time on this, but it becomes more and more troublesome. I am sure that you have seen this post by now: http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?p=3132
How can I check my website for unwanted widgets?

That's great Trulia provides competing agents a mapping solution for their internal pages in lieu of links. Nothing wrong with that. I love the idea! Thanks!

Widgets are a good feature for agents who fit into three categories:

1.) They have no idea what they are doing online. These Realtors do not mind losing visitors who click through (from time to time, everyday) to Trulia for their home search/Realtor needs. When they hear anchor text it reminders them of old times in the Navy. They opt for the simple solution rather than reading further about fancy computer machines or marketing a website on world web world (a bunch of connected computer machines).

2.) This Realtor is determined to learn more about search engine optimization (SEO), link popularity, and what it takes to build a profitable, high-traffic website. The widgets may benefit them in the short-term until they get the money and/or knowledge to do it right. They're smart by buying time. The widget provides a much needed, short-term solution.

3.) An entire group of Realtor's web provider started smoking crack during executive meetings and pimped out their clients websites to the highest bidder (maybe/maybe not *debatable, but if happened offline, all you have is theory) with highly sought after anchor text for every city in the United States of America.

Looking into my crystal ball, more than a handful of number #1, err #2, experts will be upset with the bump in priority and loyalty. Did any of these Realtors get the memo? Was their a coversheet on the TPS Report (Totally Put Second)? They will be angry if they were not given the option to opt-in to the "cool" widgets that attract "EYE-BALLS!"

"Look honey, this cool Google Map has a home search for "Your City" Real Estate. Trulia? Ok. Click! Goodbye "Google Search" unique visitor!"

Hi all!

As with any widget, if you think it adds value to your site/blog or to your visitors, then by all means use it. However, if it does not, then don't. Having relevant attribution links on the widget is common industry practice. No Trojan horse here.

Trulia Map drives engagement on your site. All the map markers link to the listings on your site. Our data shows 80K monthly clicks driven into participating agent sites.

Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia.com

What is the big picture, Jacqulyn? Please clarify. Your answer was clear as mud.

Reading through this post I can see that some people still are getting the big picture. So Dave, if another agent in your market comes up with a cool widget, would you place it on your blog?

Eric, Paul Ronnie - thank you very much for your clarifications. They are very helpful. Frankly, I never used anyone's widgets or other free staff, so I totally missed the Trojan part. As Paul said - it is nothing new in the "awards" and "incentives" industry. I guess we can call it a "full disclosure" issue. Thanks again.

>>>Ronnie: if your visitors are interested in finding listings, and you display listings, then yes, it is probably in your interest to keep your visitors on your site.

Roger - that's why 90% of the traffic searches for real estate on the internet - to search for real estate. Google is the true portal - Trulia is not. Once the traffic finds a good search, that's where they stick. Agents referring traffic to a competitor (Trulia) is NOT wise decision...unless you guys start profit-sharing (oops.)

>>>>Say, for instance, one wanted to aggregate DOM, sale price, list price, price reductions, etc. from an IDX feed and compute medians, averages and other statistics in a given location, and (bear with me here) display those stats in a widget, would that be permissible?

That's something that's been discussed. There's not a wide enough distribution channel for a local market to warrant the creation of a widget. The likelihood that a competitor would place a widget from a competing agent is slim to none - if it were created by the local board, then I could see agents using it.

IMHO, an open source IDX search needs to be developed, and with the standardization of RETS, I see that happening. That's really the only way the local guys will be able to compete with a company that has the luxury of running a loss year after year due to seed money. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of running in the red.

I realize I'm breaking my own moratorium here but I just had a thought: can any real estate pro please enlighten me about whether IDX rules prevent the display of aggregate information? Say, for instance, one wanted to aggregate DOM, sale price, list price, price reductions, etc. from an IDX feed and compute medians, averages and other statistics in a given location, and (bear with me here) display those stats in a widget, would that be permissible? If that's the case, then it could be a very cool tool for brokers or IDX customers to build.

Maybe they could be sneaky and have other site owners put it on their own Web sites, with a do-follow link pointing back to them (sorry, I couldn't help myself--this last part was a joke :)... )

First of all, I don't think you can have a standard practice from website companies (or owners) especially when it comes to linking to their sites... who's not going to take a link given to them?

The widgets certainly remind me of all those "awards" that companies create and give to any real estate agent that would put it on their homepage (link back to the providers site) but it means nothing. (Top 100 awards, etc, etc..Actually more deceiving in my opinion.)

So, I guess what you have with the Trulia Widgets is a much more advanced "award". Why do REALTORS do it? Because they don't know better. If these widgets were 100% accurate, then I could see why you might put one on your site. (Personally, when looking at real estate in other areas, they annoy the hell out of me and my browser when I come across them...)

But.... it is there right to do it, much like it's Eric's right to educate other real estate agents the effects this has.

As far as providing useful listing information, well I don't think (my opinion) that putting RealtyTrac listings is a very accurate thing to do (correct me If I am wrong because they could have changed their business model from last time I checked) but they sell information (foreclosure lists) and leads to agents that pay for their zip code or whatever whenever somebody wants to inquire about that "lien" placed on the property.

Not very cool punching up a zip code on a Trulia search and getting a whole list of ridiculously low prices that are giving the impression that there are $57,000 houses for sale in a zip code where the median price is $350,000+.

And, as far as the "featured listings" go, well, that's where the paid advertising comes in which can eventually be charged more for as traffic to Trulia gets higher and higher...

So, Trulia has a great site with some very talented people running it built on millions of dollars of venture capital and a regular agent is never going to be able to compete with the cool tools such as these widgets...... except for the fact that our IDX searches on our own sites are much more accurate... and hey... we actually sell real estate and should be able to explain these gimmicks.

In the big scheme of things the "Why" is because real estate agents don't know better. Much like I would NEVER hang my license at a brokerage that would turn around and charge me a higher commission split for leads generated from my own listings that they are automatically uploading to a third party site. :)

(And yes... I do know that providing content in the form of answers to questions is also helping Trulia in the search engine rankings... but that's where the traffic back should come into play by providing a somewhat thoughtful answer to a question...)

Ronnie: if your visitors are interested in finding listings, and you display listings, then yes, it is probably in your interest to keep your visitors on your site. The easiest way to do this is by not linking to other sites that display listings. Any content you put on your site that directs visitors to another site is a potential distraction from your goal of keeping your users on your own site. If Trulia widgets conflict with your goal, don't display them. It's 100% your choice.

Painting Trulia as an underhanded traffic thief doesn't seem fair to me when the choice to have Trulia's (or anybody else's) widgets on your site is yours.

The bottom line is simple: if something (widget, partner, competitor, banner ad, IDX feed, flying cursor trails, Flash intros, what have you) helps your business or adds value for your visitors, by all means use it. If it conflicts with your business, don't use it.

Now if the crux is how well Trulia performs in search engine rankings compared to your site, then it's a different discussion. Yes, we're doing very well in search engine rankings. We've invested a lot of brain power to follow best practices in the industry. None of what we do is rocket science, black-hat or underhanded, so the playing field is somewhat level and anyone can do it if they put their mind to it.

This is going to be my last answer in this thread, because the topic has been discussed at length on various sites and I don't think I have much to add to the conversation.

Thanks for raising the issue here and encouraging an open discussion.

One last clarification: most of our listings don't come from the MLS. They mostly come from feeds and Web sites with whom we have a partnership. By and large, we don't really display "MLS listings"--we display listings, and most of them happen to be in the MLS as well, but we're not an MLS-affiliated Web site in general.

Trulia Roger: I'm confused. My site visitors are interested in finding homes for sale. I have MLS listings on my site, Trulia has the same MLS listings on theirs.

Should I promote Trulia over my site? Should I direct traffic to Trulia and let potential home buyers choose which site they want to browse listings from? If I recommend a good real estate site and they end up buying a home from XYZ Realty, how do I win? Who is everybody? I'm a member of the Austin Board of Realtors (Abor), and as far as I know, they do not have any sort of profit sharing among Realtors. Or do they? Damn Abor, bunch of socialist, commy bastards!

Jim: If a visitor leaves your site to go to Trulia from a link in one of our widgets, you ask "Do they ever come back? Why would they?"

I'd like to put the question back to you: why wouldn't they? If your site is interesting and compelling enough that the visitor was there to begin with, what they do after they click on any link on your site should have no effect on their coming back or not, unless they decide your site wasn't interesting and they find another that fits their needs. By this logic, then, you'd have to remove every single outbound link on your site--not just links to Trulia.

But what makes the Web an interesting place is the interlinking between pages and sites. If a user finds a valuable link on your site, it reflects well on you as a site provider, because you've pointed someone to a site they may not have heard about. It's similar to recommending a restaurant to your friends. If you recommend a good restaurant, everybody wins: your friends, your standing in your circle of friends as a restaurant connoisseur (and, yes, the restaurant owner as well). That logic of implied recommendation is reflected in Google's and other search engines' ranking (relevance) algorithms, and it works pretty well, i.e. it fits the human intuition of relevance fairly accurately.

Note I'm not here to stir up the pot, revive an old argument or "defend" Trulia--just presenting another perspective.

I never realized this until recently from the bloodhound thread and recent posts. I'm sure many realtors....most actually have no idea. Hopefully by writing about it here and everywhere, it will educate. Realtors should understand what is happening and if they want to do it anyway, fine.

The visitors leave the site when they click on the Trulia widgets. Do they ever come back? Why would they?

It has to do w/ giving Trulia the pagerank (known as PR, juice, love, Google juice, etc) from your site, which helps Trulia outrank you in the search engines for searches for your own listings on Google.

In short, when a buyer types in your listing address, MLS#, city, state, etc, Trulia shows up instead of you. Once the buyer is on Trulia, they start browsing around, and more often than not, will end up on someone else's listing - contacting that person. Of course, you can pay Trulia a monthly fee so that your listings are "featured," and you have a greater chance of that buyer contacting you.

Hi Artur,
Let's not beat around the bush. Here's the Trulia Awareness Campaign in its entirety...
http://bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/TruliaTracking.php

Ronnie,
You are touching an interesting and important issue. There is already a very lively discussion going on at Bloodhound Blog on this subject. Here is the link: http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?p=3122 . Trulia's CEO took a stand on the issue. What do I think? We are benefiting from the Trulia traffic. Trulia is benefiting from our traffic. I guess the question is: Is Trulia taking a part of SEO benefits from "our" traffic we bring to Trulia away from us? Is it against accepted industry standards or ethics? I don't have answers to these questions. But frankly, I don't care. I am benefiting from being here and even if I could benefit more - traffic wise, I don't see it as an issue I should spend my time on. However, I believe that there should be a discussion on the subject and key industry players (google, yahoo, trulia, zillow, etc.) should agree on a standard way of doing it.

Thanks for the answers, Trulia. Maybe "stealing" is a bit harsh. I believe a better word is "giving" traffic away. If someone lands on my site looking to purchase a home in Austin, then clicks on your anchor text, "Austin Real Estate" place on the bottom of widgets, that visitor is gone forever. How does this improve my ROI? Will they find me on Trulia? Maybe. If there are 300 Austin Realtors on your site, my chances of getting said visitor back is, say, 0.003%. Please clarify...

Ronnie,

I using it on my blog, not my website. I don't see that as stealing my traffic. I see it as enhancing my blog.

Hi Ronnie!

For more information, you may want to read our blog post :

http://www.truliablog.com/2008/05/15/back-to-basics-trulia-w…

Best,

Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia.com

Ronnie: this is Roger from Trulia here. I'd like to point out that the Trulia widgets do not "steal" any traffic. If our widgets, say, redirected visitors from your site to Trulia automatically, that'd be stealing traffic, and our widgets do no such thing. All our widgets do is display information on your site.

Yes, there are links to Trulia in the widgets, but that's standard practice re. attribution.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Cheers,
Roger