As stated prior, becoming proficient and representing Buyers as Clients allows access to Office Exclusives as per Department of State. There are still many firms in the Hamptons that do not belong to The Long Island Board of Realtors, but there are more and more every day that understand the benefit.
Striving for Excellence....
Douglas Montgomery, Broker
Rule 203- Additional Offices
"In the event an Applicant or Participant has, or acquires, an interest as owner, partner or stockholder, directly or indirectly, in any other real estate office within the counties of Queens, Nassau or Suffolk, operating under the same, or any other name, the Applicant or Participant shall pay a separate initial fee for each office, and be responsible for the adherence by said Real Estate Office to the rules of MLS.
All such Real Estate Brokerages must participate in the service in order for the Participant to remain a Participant. The board of Directors may waive the requirements of this section if the nature of the office or geographic location would render the requirement inequitable".
Inequity is absent, so what is the reason for tolerance of ongoing violations from Hamptons brokerages at the expense of the majority of dues paying members?
I actually think this is a very good idea, although I suggest it would have to be the reverse conversion, with MLS/HANFRA/Rappatoni making the running, adapting their own (antiquated) system to be able to take a feed from RealNet/OREX, then charging HREO for the privilege.
This said without knowing the details of tech challenges involved, or cost analysis, but we no longer live in an economy where we can afford to compete as we have in the past must consolidate resources to be more cost effective for the consumer. This is one way in which we could help ourselves.
The REALTOR landscape is going to look very different on the East End in 2 years time and anyone who wants to survive has to be flexible and put politics aside, REALTOR Boards included.
Again.... Douglas From Douglaston.....
Sort of defeats the value of the MLSLI for dues paying members- why isn't LIBOR stepping in to assure it's members that all companies are in compliance (after the receipt of complaints)?
The rules are right there in black and white.
I trust and hope that you are not answering for your broker. I am not at all disrespecting you, just informing you that office exclusives are allowed even with NAR MEMBERS. They have to be registered, forms are available to members on line. The question was why brokers omit adresses on advertisments, and I answered due to the possible status of the listing being an office exclusive.
Michael, you have gotten your moneys worth from your question...
Libor is always looking for new members Jonathan...
Please do not disrespect me, I have of course read the Code, something that I am beginning to doubt of other agents after reading their posts here.
I have no issue with you and have attempted to answer the original question. However agents presenting â€œinhouseâ€ as better for clients are just taking advantageâ€¦
There are several cases that you might wish to look up including the Justice Dept in CA back in 2005 which affirmed a decision dating back approximately 10 years prior of the whole issue of antitrust with the NAR.
Shall we just try to stay on topic in the future?
My company has never withheld listings from MLS, but that is not the question that was originally asked. Perhaps you should take some time and read the National Assoication of Realtors Code of Ethics. I would be happy to furnish you one if you have not had the chance to get one on your own. It outlines in detail what is allowed as per the guidelines of NAR.
Best of luck with your future endeavors...
Douglas Montgomery, Broker/Owner
That was a funny post... I was born at night, but not last night... We here at Engel & Voelkers answer to a higher level of customer service.
If you honestly think that withholding a listing is in your clientâ€™s best interest then perhaps you really do need to further research in the matter. There are several very easy methods to protect client identity and yet still share a listing with fellow agents!
Oh...btw yes it might be the weekend to you ... I hope you do enjoy it relaxing. It makes it even easier for us to gain those additional clients that you are not around to help give such wonderful advice.
I am not sure how your area does business but keeping "inhouse" listings is a clear violation of policy of the NAR!
The National Association of Realtors - the organization whose purpose is to promote the interests of Realtors â€“ NAR has made it mandatory for every one of its hundreds of associated MLSs to include all listings, regardless of listing type, in any feed to public and IDX websites.
It goes without saying that by holding back a listing the broker is hurting the seller!
In my area alot of properties are kept inhouse, and not included with MLS. Office Exclusive Listings tend not to have the address included with the advertisements. One way to get through the fence is to approach the listing agent as a Buyers Broker/Agent. They can not keep the listing information from you but they do not have to offer compensation to any cooperating real estate professional so make sure that your buyers agreement is complete...
Best of luck
Douglas Montgomery, Broker
Two properties went under contract yesterday on the North fork; one selling agent was from out of area (Centereach?); the other is a local Riverhead broker (and non-Orex participant).
Unless the agenda of HANFRA is to continue to provide out of area agents with properties on the North/South forks, ethical, rules following, dues paying Realtors will continue to force the issue.
This area doesn't 'BELONG" to the real estate companies; this area belongs to buyers and sellers seeking to have a transparent, open real estate environment. A big element of that is inclusion of real estate agents outside of the east end. Second home buyers are entitled to have anyone of their choice represent them; to make it a gyration is absurd in 2009. Actually, everywhere else, it was absurd in 1990.
@Laurie Options Realty. "intentional disrespect for rules" is where the rub is. I see it more as a cultural thing than a "willful" thing. It's going to take education and training. IMHO.
When I sold homes "up island" (Lake Grove), real estate agents that brought buyers to my site called the North fork (and east end) WEIRD.
These very agents had interested parties on the North fork (this was 2006-7) but refused to promote the area due to "weird" (exclusive) practices.
There is a "reputation" that needs repair, in order to encourage these very agents with buyers to experience a more "evolved" locale...
An intentional disrespect for rules is a detriment that shouldn't be tolerated.
This thread has really gone off topic now!
It's more of a cultural thing and less of an intentional disregard for "rules". Welcome to the Wild Wild East!
Now, where do we go from here?
As I suggested in my Tom D's Rant post on my blog:
I see three options for moving forward:
1- Convert RealNet/OREX to an MLS compliant format. Currently this private system provides most of the listing data to Hamptons firms. The public portal for RealNet is HREO.com
2- Join the Hamptons and North Fork Realtors Associationâ€™s MLS provided by Rappatoni
3- Join and consistently employ Stratus, the MLS system provided by the Long Island Board of Realtors
The thing about HANFRA is that I believe that (but not certain) their MLS was adjusted to be more rental friendly than MLSLI- perhaps someone well versed in the commercial need could spearhead that area on the HANFRA site.
I agree. The solution is sitting out here, completely underutilized. Agree completely (without the interaction that you have) that John Nickles is very special somehow. Not so convinced that the COMPANY that is currently president is ok. Not convinced AT ALL.
I have found over the years of being in the East End as a LIBOR and more recently a HANFRA (Hamptons and North Fork Realtors) member that, while LIBOR and Stratus MLS technically cover the East End, there is overlap with HANFRA and that results in a "Board of Choice" option for brokers. There are also a fairly large number of agents who belong to no Board (I believe Sotheby's is the largest that does not belong to a Board).
Just this last year, HANFRA contracted with Rappatoni to offer an East End MLS system, but they are struggling to get participation in that system.
Thing is, it takes involved members to properly run a chapter and, unfortunately there are too few here on the East End that have been willing to participate in leadership for the LIBOR MLS that is based out of West Babylon, a world apart. Along with that, the agents and the brokers have not really bought into the "system", ie: the structure and the rules of MLS, formal procedures around the business of real estate practices, etc. And, lastly, the culture does not result in a great deal of formality around disputes and grievances which are typically handled by brokerage senior management and the "board" rarely becomes involved. It's that "less government" mentality.
In the last several years, under the leadership of John Nickels Jr and more recently, John Halsted, the HANFRA board has become more robust and involved, providing leadership and education to the East End real estate community, however they don't "support" the Stratus MLS that is operated by LIBOR. SO, oversight of the LIBOR MLS is weak.
In the 5 East End Towns of Riverhead, Southold, Shelter Island, East Hampton and Southampton, we have the HANFRA members, LIBOR members and the Non-members. We might need Hillary to add this region to her 2009 itinerary.
I hear your frustration and agree that there are one or possibly more groups out here that enable their top agents to game the system. You can see this on the MLS occasionally when a property changes status from new to under contract or sold within a day, the data only having been entered after the fact to bolster that office's market share. Those listings never appear on your IDX feed, or mine, which compromises the integrity of the MLS system as a whole. Putting the onus on an individual agent for filing a violation complaint against another individual agent isn't the answer when the problem is the broker's office policy that allows an agent to do it in the first place, and that is something that only MLS can ensure is in place at the higher corporate level.
One other point that hasn't been made is about commercial listings. It can be argued with the seller of a 1 to 4 family home that it is in their best interests to reach all the other agents by listing on MLS, but the same argument doesn't work with the seller of a commercial business, when it is inherited wisdom that it can be quite damaging to customer loyalty and perceived value of a business if it's known that business is for sale. Customers may think the business is going under, the seller loses customer loyalty and they leave, bringing the value of the business down just as it goes on the market for sale. Not good.
The MLS system is clunky for some purposes, and commercial and business listings is one of them. It's an all or nothing thing - either the listing is public and reaches all agents and the general public or it is private and reaches nobody. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise it might help if there were a half way measure to enable agents to share confidential information with other agents through the MLS system, but without it also becoming public knowledge.
The MLS system as it's grown up, is still only geared for the 1 to 4 family house, not for land, commercial or vacation rentals, of which we have many on the east end. Heck, you can't even schedule an open house for commercial listings last time I looked!
I sense the reasons why LIBOR MLS doesn't do much about the east end situation is because we represent such a small proportion of the membership, they have other more pressing priorities, and also because they don't want to lose the membership they do have.
By the way, HANFRA (Hamptons and North Fork Realtors) is a great Board for anyone on the East End and has launched it's own MLS system, that could go a long way to resolving the east end problem, but it needs a concerted effort by everyone to cooperate to get it off the ground and I don't see that happening yet unfortunately.
That they participate fully in the other areas is also not disputed, and they are aware of the problem, which brought up the "jurisdiction" issue that makes absolutely no sense, relative to the printed rules in the mlsli (which clearly indicates that they have jurisdiction over all of Suffolk county, including the Hamptons).
They are aware; they are doing nothing, and haven't since it was brought up a year ago, six months ago, etc.
Thank you for offering a response that indicates interest- and thank you for offering your time to better the experience for the agents in your area.
That is absolutely not the case in the Hamptons.
This will stop, but it would be nice to have it end based on the good judgement of the "powers that be" rather than legal entanglements that benefit no one, and give us all a black eye.
If companies don't want to follow the rules, they should be immediately removed from the privilege of utilizing a system that's in place to benefit the real estate community as whole, paid for by members that expect simple ethics to be maintained as diligently as possible, as is done all of the time in many, many states.
Im sorry you have run into issues with the powers above... If you ever want to discuss more in detail, I would be happy to listen..
Very truly yours,
J Douglas Montgomery
Oh, really? If you read through the MLS rules, you'll note that in fact they make VERY clear their areas of jurisdiction- including ALL of Suffolk County.
Excuses, excuses...at some juncture, someone at either LIBOR or MLSLI needs to acknowledge that they are facilitating a practice that is VERY damaging to east end brokers that pay dues only to watch this reprehensible behavior continue, creating buyers that see the deception- Tom D. certainly has a good grasp on the issues. How embarrassing for the rest of us.
If you are unsure about the violation, call the legal hotline to get thier perspective on it.
Douglas Montgomery, Broker
The MLSLI is as complicit as the companies themselves; to imagine that they are exempt from imposing their rules for a select group of large companies (members that use the MLSLI in other areas of Long Island) is shortchanging the dues paying members who expect an ethical level that would provide the oversight promised as we write out those checks each year for the service.
If a member of the NAR and MLSLI (which many of them are) is unable to convey to sellers, in the presence of a fiduciary relationship that requires the objective to get the seller the "best possible price", that engaging the real estate community as a whole is indeed a good plan, with cooperation and full exposure, I shudder to consider their negotiating capacity overall.
The MLSLI is common sense; if you doubt that smart buyers and sellers are catching on in the Hamptons, check out the first comment on this post http://www.optionsrealty.com. Skip the post and just scroll to the comment.
I'll delete the link in a day or two- self promotion is NOT the agenda, but it's a comment very worthy of a look.
Clearly, it's not a sellers choice, in the MAJORITY of cases, to eliminate mls exposure; it's the listing agents deficiency of common sense/ethics. Opinion, of course.
There are owners out there that truly do not want their home address advertised and there is a proper way of noting that, getting the paperwork signed and fulfilling their wishes.
That being said, there are still agents and brokers on Long Island (certainly in the Hamptons) who do not even give their clients a choice, who are not even members of MLS, but rather put their listings on other websites and don't publish the addresses because they want to capture the customer for themselves, regardless of whether or not it's in the best interest of their client.
One would think that agents and brokers would be looking for ways to more clearly promote their listings and see that publishing the address would be one sure-fire way of doing that, but so many of them continue to believe that "this market" is temporary and "things will get back to normal soon".
Check out the 1000Watt post Losing a race with progress at
and read between the lines.
Are you going to be part of the steamroller or part of the pavement?