There are man that meant to lead. There are man that meant to follow. There are man that are meant to speak.
There are man that are meant to shut their mouth and pack up and go home.
Obama is meant to choose the best direction and than hold a press conference .
Today's a day that separates the haters from the thinkers.
Here's a lesson, haters. In the days following 9/11, when President Bush was basically invisible, having been reluctant to leave a group of bored first-graders upon hearing of the news of the attacks, Rudy Giuliani faced the nation and all Americans paid heed and gave credit - even the New Yorkers who hated the guy.
Ten years fast forward, and what we on the left have always believed - that there was a hard core of righties that wouldn't applaud if he caught or killed bin-Laden - has come true. Today is the day where you lose all intellectual credibility, and the only way to regain it is to renounce and joyfully applaud this victory.
When you are incapable of giving credit where it is due, you have become a partisan zealot.
I find the direction that the extreme right wing and Tea Baggers seem to want to take our Nation to be frightening. and as a retired corrections officer I don't scare easily. :)
For the record, I was a registered Republican from the time I was 18 until I was about 33. I switched to Libertarian for a while but watched as their leaders were mostly co-opted by the far right as well, switched again to Independent for a while but finally went to the Democrats as that seemed to be where the real "middle of the road" candidates seemed to be.
While I was in D.C. Lobbying for the Public Safety Employer/Employee co-operation act I was amazed at how much disdain the "Law and Order" Right seemed to truly have for Peace Officers and Fire Fighters.
Here is what I at least think of as a humorous anecdote from that trip. Before a breakfast meeting with Senators Reid(D) and Ensign(R) (both of NV). I was asked (I think by Ensign, but don't recall exactly) "So what was the biggest thing the Republican Party did to make you so angry with it?" and my immediate response was, "They made me want to vote for a Democrat!"
I think I am a pretty average representation of a middle of the road Dem. I am 100% behind the civilian right to bear arms. Surprisingly to some, most law enforcement types seem to be of the same opinion. We know how much damage can be done before a peace officer can arrive at the scene and situations where a lone nut job walks in and shoots up a McDonalds or a Pancake house, the damage would be extremely less if a couple armed, responsible civilians were present. Sure he will still shoot people, but not nearly as many before one of the others takes him down. Kinda like the 3rd plane on 9/11. When citizens know the score, they will generally react appropriately.
I also believe we have a certain social responsibility to those less fortunate then ourselves. Quite frankly, if paying an extra 10 or 15 cents for a pound of produce, etc. will help provide a low wage earner with a better standard of living I am all for that. Comfortable people don't mug, steal or shoot convenience store clerks for a few bucks.
And I also believe that if this was truly the "Greatest Nation" we wouldn't have citizens dying due to inability to afford diabetes medications or basic health care, and I think anyone that doesn't agree with this would feel completely different if someone in their family was in that situation. Anything else would truly fit the description of cold hearted.
The excuse for medication patent extensions and costs are also complete B.S. 22% (Possibly lower) of the pharmaceutical industries budget is spent for R&D. They spend several times as much on Advertising to Doctors and consumers than R&D. Makes me wish this was like the UK where advertising directly to the general public is prohibited. If I see one more commercial for E.D. pills I think it may actually give it to me. :)
God, there is way to much I could rant about on the corruption of our political system but I really should do some work tonight so I am gonna end with what I believe is one simple, common sense thing we can do to help fix our country for the long term.
Reform the way our political system is funded:
1. Ban all professional Lobbyists. They are engaged in nothing more than bribery. Which leads to...
2. Set hard fast rules on campaign contributions. For instance, only registered voters can contribute to a political candidate and only a reasonable amount that won't lead to undue influence. Say $1500 or thereabouts. Since a corporation is a fictitious person, it has no right to vote. Therefore it has no right to contribute to a candidate.
I think that just this one thing alone would do a lot to make our politicians beholden to whom they were intended to be.
We The People.
But what do I know, I'm just a RealtorÂ® LoL
America is not, nor was it ever intended to be a Christian Nation. I am an American, I am not a Christian and I do love my country.
The spread of this constant misconception does nothing to unite us as the Nation of immigrants that it actually is, it only serves to divide us. We are a Nation founded by people from diverse backgrounds, cultures and creeds. Many of which fled their home nations to escape state sanctioned religions.
I frequently hear people saying things such as "Our Forefathers" this and that, and cherry picking select items to fit their world view.
The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being.
Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States."
Thomas Jefferson subscribed to Deism, In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god."
Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science. He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819, he wrote, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
John Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote: "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
And In his, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" [1787-1788], he wrote: "The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven"
From George Washington's writings, ". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, Washington said that every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
James Madison had no conventional sense of Christianity. In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
From the Treaty of Tripoli: "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Do these sound like the words of Christians?
There are more examples than I can post here. This is not Left Wing or radical atheist spin, it is historic fact.
Educate yourself. Use Google, or check out the link below to an article on the subject written by Mr. Fea, A professor of American history at Messiah College in Grantham, Pennsylvania (A Christian College)
The last ten years have created a permanent underclass. Under educated 23-35 year olds that cannot find a real, permanent job, with a living wage. Add to that the late middle agers pushing 60 and they have no ability to retire at 65/70 and struggle to find work with insurance until they hit that magical 65 number. Plus, since calculations for social security are based on formulated earnings, many current 55 year olds that are under employed now will get reduced SS benefits whenever they hit that magic 65. How many old folks wait to get a knee or hip replaced until medicaire pays for it? Or dont see a cardiologist until it's covered by medicare?
By your rationale Gabe, it makes no sense to treat seniors better than the rank and file non-retirees. Why don't old people have to compete for health insurance and pay market rates based on acturarial tables for a 70 year old male smoker? Get honest and make Social security and medicare a means tested program and let everyone older spend their childrens inheritences on healthcare. Carry your position the the logical extreme and that is where we end up.
It is frustrating. We are not used to hearing so little from a President, especially in such awful times. I cannot understand that, especially since public speaking is an obvious strength for him.
Part of the problem is, when the President had a majority in both houses of Congress, he spent too much time trying to pass healthcare reform. I am not an opponent of the plan, although I do think it was much too kind to the insurance companies. We all now have the benefit of hindsight, and can all see it was not the thing to concentrate on first. Then when he lost the majority in the house in the 2010 election, he was hamstrung. The opposition is being extremely obstinate, another danger in this economy. So the President is stuck, compromising when his followers want toughness. He can never please the increasingly obstructive opposition, but it seems to be his nature to continue to try.
The President is a long range thinker, something else we're not used to! But he doesn't rely solely on his own instincts, and seeks consensus when we are accustomed to a fight. He sought too small a stimulus in 2009, and he didn't realize how badly gummed up the system was, which prevented distribution to productive channels, and got sucked up by red tape and cronyism.
As bad as things look for Obama, though, it's hard to imagine anyone else having done better.
I would appreciate knowing if this helps?
Now this is customer service!
GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, a Christian nation, land of the free and home of the brave.
How may I help you?
Press '1' for English.
Press '2' to disconnect until you learn to speak English!
And remember only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ
And the American Soldier.
One died for your soul,
The other for your freedom.
Congratulation You have done an excellent job moderating a topic that has invited heat from opposing points of views while remaining a true gentleman at all time .You kept the topic alive and always interesting and fairly balanced. In reference to your topic, "In the here and now" allow me to get a bit nostalgic and reflect on times past since your questions were first introduced and the conclusions I personally came to.
Worst of Times Brings Out Best in People. In a perfect world we would not have noticed. In times we presently live we do. Knowing what is good one needs to experience what is bad. We know when it is better for we know what could be worst.
I could think of how some who survived a tsunami, terrorist attack, neighborhood shooting, plain crash, a kidnapping or just lost a job, their home .
Most of us who survive for just another day have no idea how lucky we really are. If anyone has a doubt how our country is blessed and does not understand itâ€™s greatness consider yourself â€œunfortunate" for you donâ€™t know the difference. What i have see in the last couple of weeks makes me proud how the worst brought out the best in us. We have survived! No doomsday, No catastrophe , just a feeling of hope for a better day. Doesnâ€™t it feel great . It feels like America to me.
Road under construction. Please use and follow the detour. Sorry for the inconvenience. We are experiencing some technical difficulties but with an other billion dollars to invest into the election these minor issues will be corrected promptly to your satisfaction
Thank you for your patience HOPE is on the way. Due to the heavy traffic we are experiencing an unexpected overload of calls our operators are busy responding to praise and well wishes for our President deciding run for an other four years.
Please stay on the line and listen to what we recorded for your listening pleasure our accomplishments to date.
If you are calling for your benefits not received on time press 1
If you are loosing your home press 2
If you are calling from Libya press 3
If you are immigrant seeking citizenship and prepared to vote for Obama in the next election stay on the line our helpful immigration minister will take your call momentarily. Swearing in online for instant citizenship is now a reality.
Web Reference: http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/video?867445768001
How is he going to answer what HE just did to LYBIA.....???? just saying...
Obama's Agenda? -HELP me Please
Tue Mar 8 2011, 06:03 - Market Conditions in All locations - 144 answers
Seriously, can someone please make sense for me out of Obama's direction? I am typically an optimistic and I am not trying to trash our president or this administration. But, I am lost if I sit and try to think of any real direction that is being employed or followed. -And it's costing us All!
Whether here or abroad, Gas prices, Health care, economics, Federal Budget Or Lybia, Afganastan, Iran and Iraq, -I see no real direction or concentrated and Sustained effort...
Am I just being pessimistic or what?
I take that as invitation to a topic. Glad that you have aired your opinion now you can move on and waste your time on other sites.
Thank you for visiting hope you sell something. I am afraid you have not sold me with your objection. Are you finished saying all that you wanted to say? Than Have Great Day.
Well, there's another 51-48 "loss," as the obstructionists continue to obstruct.
So, Mitt Romney's coming off as a "liberal," as if being governor of Massachusetts wasn't enough of a hint. Sharp people, these reporters!
And, as a result of this "debate," Newt Gingrich is now a "front-runner." This is the only Speaker of the House ever to sanctioned on ethics violations (the vote was 395 to 28, by the way), a guy who got the FCC off of Rupert Murcoch's back in exchange for a $4.5 million book deal, and he is the poster child for "Bad Family Values."
Why? Why do they even try?
Well, Steve Jobs just died. He was not a "common man." Nor were the great musicians who passed this week - Johnny Wright, Sylvia Robinson, Leonard Dillon, Marv Taplin (who co-wrote "Tracks of My Tears"), Bert Jansch - these weren't "common folk," they were extraordinary people who had varying degrees of celebrity because of their elite talents and skills.
Real estate agents, I have noticed, believe in elitism when they attain some level of success - they are quick to become The Neighborhood Expert, The Relocation Expert, #1 in My Home County; we sign on to become 4- or 5- or 10-star agents, depending on who's doing the promotion.
I don't think the problem is with elitism, I think the problem is with the "common (wo)man" spending half a day listening to the preaching of one political point-of-view or another rather than turning off the noise and listening to their own thoughts for awhile. I know that I can watch and listen to too many baseball games, and find myself arguing whether Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols are worth thirty million dollars a year or not!
But let's not fall into the trap that there's a special wisdom among the "common folk," and that the "elite" are somehow stupider than "we" are. That's just crazy talk. Michelle Bachmann may have some personal qualities and some specific knowledge that Barack Obama doesn't have, but I don't think Obama would go to Netanyahu and pass something he'd heard in the hotel lobby as fact, either.
So, Jim - what do you think of Barack Wilson O'Reagan?
As a matter of fact, we agree on a lot of issues, which is why I consider myself a Middle of the road kind of guy when it comes to politics.
I think like most Americans, when we get past the hot button issues we are pretty similar in viewpoints with just a few exceptions. Unfortunately the extremes on BOTH sides of the aisle have effectively divided so many of us that engaging in meaningful debate has become difficult due to the propensity for finger wagging and blame that so frequently seems to be part and parcel of our political system.
I believe we all have different ideas about what the country needs, and how to get there but we can all agree that it does need repair and the lack of cooperation exhibited by both extremes is killing us as a nation. We are never going to agree 100% on anything and if we all did I think the world would be a very boring place.
But this is a nation that is built on compromise and working together towards the greater good and when individuals in our political system refuse to work together and bargain in good faith with each other it is to the benefit of nobody.
James, Its not a Liberal or Progressive trait, its a trait shared by elitists on both sides and trying to pin it all on one group is just unproductive rhetoric.
And you are cherry picking, He may have said they will always be with us but he also left no doubt whatsoever as to how we should treat the less fortunate.
Sometimes bad things happen to good people through no fault of their own. Its called chance and can happen to virtually anyone. I just hope that if anything ever happens to put you in dire straights you have someone, be it friends, family, church or a social program there to help you in your time of need and aid in lifting you back up.
I have been there. I did everything right, I invested wisely, saved money, and worked hard and when I suffered a line of duty injury to my spinal cord and went from making 70+k a year to nothing I was able to survive on my savings for the almost 2 years I spent unable to even get up to use the restroom without assistance and all without resorting to social programs, but not everyone can be so lucky. In an age where the majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck it's not always possible to be as prepared as I was and I was only prepared because I was investing that money towards my retirement so I could retire young enough to still enjoy it.
I have since exhausted virtually all my cash reserves and curtailed my spending and revamped my budget and I don't foresee myself needing social assistance but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there for others.
Yes, I am against people living on the public dole and I believe in a form of Workfare rather then welfare and having limits and whatnot. And nothing is more infuriating to me than watching someone in front of me in the checkout line pay with food stamps as they chat on their Iphone and head out to their Navigator or Escalade, I think those that are gaming the system should be dealt with swiftly and severely but that's an entirely different debate.
As an atheist it sometimes seems to me that many atheist or agnostic individuals are showing a more "Christian" attitude towards unfortunates then many self proclaimed Christians. But then again I am only exposed to a small portion of the overall population of this nation and my observations may not be a universal truth.
But at least I am willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, be open to differing ideas and changing my world view when the evidence indicates that I am wrong. Something the extremists on both sides seem incapable of doing.
These are just my opinions, I don't know or ever claimed to know everything about everything.
As Socrates said, "The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing" (paraphrased again, I remember content of many quotes but without looking them up I can't possibly hope to get the verbiage completely accurate on all of them.)
Well, I guess I have vented my spleen enough, and as one not so great man also said, "Can't we all just get along?" lol....
Now I'm off to mow my lawn before my wife beats me. :)
- Maybe both sides are simply clueless because niether Party has yet to get the latest memo from the Big $ interest groups! -ha,ha
No, seriously - it's funny in a poignant way. John Boehner hints that, if the deal were good enough, he might concede to raise a dollar of revenue here or there, and BOOM! a challenger - from his own party - pops up.
Obama and the Democrats have a very real political problem to solve: how to get the banks to sacrifice, by accepting stronger regulation, smaller profits, and some responsibility for the mess they created and profited from - while not having them jump to the other side that is promising them free markets, de-regulation, and we'll never go Elizabeth Warren on your ATMs.
- It appears that Trulia has shown its true colors and it has chosen to become just another Liberal Media processing information and political commentaries.
Actually, the screen is wide open. I suspect that the real challenge is that conservatives are looking around trying to figure out what happened to their party over the past few years.
Rather than complain about Trulia, I think you should complain that there really isn't anybody explaining how the Republican agenda would benefit Americans. And if you're not seeing any of it, maybe the reason isn't that websites are "showing their liberal colors."
I find in general you have a better chance of getting someone to listen to, if not accept, your viewpoints if you explain your positions calmly and rationally rather than engaging in attacking their core beliefs no matter how misguided you may think them to be.
And one more comment Gabe. Why does it seem that those that claim to support "We the people" also always seem to be the ones that have the least amount of faith in the common man to do the right thing? This particular bit of hubris seems rampant amongst the far right and I find it somewhat disconcerting.
Lots of people throughout history have thought that the common man was at best a dullard and needed to be lead by the nose for their own good. I don't have to point out the usual suspects, we all know who they are and we all know what their beliefs ended up leading to.
And you were doing so well in PoliSci. Too bad.
- Seriously, if we can ever call someone the "first black President"
Oh, yeah. I'll tell you this - if a woman had her handbag grabbed, and Obama went after it, the store clerk would tell the police, "This lady screamed and a black man, mid-forties or so, went chasing after the thief."
One good thing about former Vice-President Cheney making the rounds is that it reminds Americans of the war crimes - activities that the United States agreed were such by Senate-ratified treaty - that the Bush Administration committed. You can look it up.
An advantage the GOP has in puffing up these non-candidates like Trump and Palin, and the wannabe fringe folk like Bachmann, is that it shifts the conversation from the history of the GOP since Reagan, over to whether "liberals" are sexist in asking about Bachmann's husband's clinic.
The agenda of the GOP, for the past thirty years, has been to wrest control of government from the people, by any legal means possible, and by some that aren't so legal. The hypocrisy of the GOP didn't begin with Reagan growing government, it has been a constant march - but the soundtrack has changed. George H.W. Bush was a different kind of guy - actually intelligent by all accounts, and willing to cut short the Gulf War even though he could have dragged it out and won re-election. (Son - note to self: have a war going on if you're ever up for re-election).
But the soundtrack. The Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell, talk about the people you associate with. With Clinton in office, the GOP came up with their Contract With America. John Boehner signed that. Term limits, fiscal responsibility. Ha ha ha ha ha! George Bush, "compassionate conservatism," - "I'd love to help you, but I really don't want to." Be vewy afwaid. And since 2009? The party of, "No." No. How about we help the American people? No. How about we do something for American jobs? No. How about we cut taxes - you always like that? Only if we cut spending, too.
It's worked, in that the President now has a record-high disapproval rating. Oh, and the Tea Party-led Congress? 15% approval rating. So much for taking your country back.
Well, that was a ginned-up non-story, wasn't it?
- Where is the outcry over the tone from Hoffa and Biden?
"The tone?" Compared to, oh, I don't know, the GOP raffling off a Glock in the same district where a sitting member of Congress was shot by one?
I appreciate you bringing this up, Jim, because it demonstrates that the GOP loses even the petty arguments. At this point, they are a party without a conscience, without a soul, that is determined to take over the government so as to destroy it, to privatize everything in sight and give total and complete control to corporations. At least when this was tried in Italy, corporations were allowed to represent themselves in the senate.
I do not know why we are more afraid of socialism than we are of fascism.
When you're in a traffic jam, you tend to think that if you could just get off this road, you could do an end around and get there quicker another way. (Of course, now we have google maps on our phones, but the point holds!)
But this is a fact. Spending bills originate in the House. A President may have a good relationship with the Speaker, who is only second-in-line succession-wise to the White House. Or, a President may have a lousy relationship with the Speaker.
According to Wikipedia, this Congress has put forth twenty eight pieces of legislation, five of which involved naming things after people. The previous Congress put forth three hundred and eighty three.
As real estate agents, I'm sure you've had the occasional client that simply stopped working with you. They are probably running all over town telling everybody how lousy and agent you were, how you kept showing them houses that, while affordable, were too small and weren't in the prime pristine locations they demanded. You lousy agent!
I think the President deserves some defense, and deserves some criticism. Unlike the last guy, he doesn't seem to be a puppet for his vice-president, he does seem to be a reader, and he does seem to have an excellent understanding of all of the presidential-type issues. I think he knows more about tax law than Michelle Bachmann, as much or more about health care as Mitt Romney, as much or more about foreign policy than Jon Huntsman . . .
At the end of the day, the President can't sign something that isn't ratified by Congress, any more than a real estate agent can cash a commission check without a buyer and seller signing a purchase agreement. The President may be a lot of things, but Congress has done nothing to improve the lives of Americans, and if we're not getting ahead, we must be falling behind.
It's Labor Day! Let's go bash some greedy workers!
Of course there is. C'mon, do you think I get involved in these discussions without being aware of the failures and inefficiencies of both the free market and government?
The streets are littered with failed enterprises, capitalist ventures that went "splat!" And we can argue down the wormhole as to whose "money" it was; you have already provided a compelling answer.
Markets should and must be regulated. They are servants of the people, not masters. Those moneychangers that Jesus wanted cleared out of the hallways of the temples? They were free-marketeers and small-businesspeople, too.
I am not a student of the Bible, but from my readings, I do not get that Jesus was a Libertarian. I do not get that He taught that all enterprises were equally valid, and I do not get that He taught anything about markets. I'm willing to be illuminated.
From my readings, I am not certain that Jesus, as quoted in Matthew, was confronted with the idea of, "Well, I gave at church, I gave to charity." Perhaps that is satisfactory, and true Christians who obtain public office will be able to gain access to heaven even after voting against taxes on the rich and against benefits for the poor.
- Oh and to proactive in response to your suggestions that there are corrupt leaders within the church
You know, this doesn't affect me in the least. Although I am not of the One True Faith, I do not believe that Catholicism should be any less compelling because some priests are sinners. Should American ideals be marginalized because we have criminals and bad people? Please. America doesn't suck because we once elected Richard Nixon president; and I will not condemn religion because of the failures of (mostly) men.
However, I like to think I'm a reasonable person, and I like to think that I come to some important conclusions through some application of logic to the available facts. I presume that Alan Greenspan is an atheist; the whole Ayn Rand thing, you know. So I don't expect him to be held to any moral or theological principal that as he does unto his neighbor, he does unto Christ.
But when a political candidate professes to be a Christian, how can they not? "Yeah, I'm a Christian, but you know what - some of these shiftless lazy people are just G-d's mistakes, so scroo 'em."
I'm open, pal, but I've had a lot of people try before. Maybe you've got a better idea. On this Labor Day weekend, I really do not see how Jesus would approve of the Bosses breaking up the unions.
Sure. But that may have more to do with the people than the methodology.
- That is my sniff test and it looks like it's yours and Mack's, too.
It is mine, but it leads me back to an earlier point, which is that a Christian who professes that they are led by their Faith has the ticklish issue of using government to serve Christ, which would mean feeding the poor and baptizing the nation.
Which is how I come to the POV that we need to judge candidates like Michelle Bachmann who profess to be Christians First on the basis of not only their faith, but their level of obedience to it!
I also think that ECs appear to act contrary to Biblical teachings when they, among other things, vote against the government aiding the poor and improving prison conditions. (We can save the whole "interest" thing which made the Medici rich for another discussion).
But this is a part of what I mean by "faith." Faith can be described as an acceptance of that which cannot be proven. But it can be proven, by reading the Bible, that the Lord decreed that His followers keep the sabbath. It can be proven that Jesus railed against the rich and shamed those who ignored the poor and jailed because they did not see Him in those people.
And it can be proven that relying on the bible for geologic timelines is incompatible with modern science. But, then again, Jesus didn't say the earth was 6000 years old, anyway!
Here's a great irony - Monday is Labor Day, and we've become a nation that dishonors Labor. Especially when it organizes against the poor Corporation! Imagine!!!
The ATMs worked, the computer booted up normally, the Consumer Confidence Index (this is not from memory) was 144, it was 100 in 1985 and it's 45 today (Bush alert: it was 40 in January 2009).
The world was our oyster. Serious people were having serious discussions about whether the US should retire its debt (the Bush Administration would soon project a surplus of five or six trillion dollars over the next decade).
So America decided that the big difference between Al Gore and George Bush was that Bush, with his MBA, would be a little bit better with money than a Democrat, and that the Republicans were typically better on defense. I feel a need to remind the reader that ten years ago today, the President was still ignoring briefings about bin-Laden planning to fly planes into the WTC. "There was so much noise, it was hard to find a signal," was essentialy the administration's defense. Oops.
Anyway. The new Administration looked at five trillion dollars of revenue surplus, and decided that it was the people's money and needed to be given back to them. Checks were drawn on the treasury and sent to taxpayers. It was, drain the treasury, cut taxes, and it would be good for the economy.
The Iraq invasion is well-documented, as is its cost.
So, here we are, ten years later. The Republicans have moved further to the right of George Bush. Is that because the last ten years have been especially good for Americans?
President Obama has gone over to at least George Bush's side on several issues. Extending the Bush tax cuts. Cutting federal government spending. Eric Cantor was sending email blasts out for the past several months boasting about how good a job Republican policies were doing with, well, creating jobs. This month, no email blast.
You can look it up.
You're opposed to a guy who has done so many things you disagree with, who hasn't done anything. Hmmm.
You also appear to tire quickly of the truth, which is something that I'm noticing from a lot of people, so I do hope they heed your call and open their eyes, people!
There is a fallacy that "he had Congress" for two years, he did not. There is this false equivalency that "Well, Bush didn't have Congress and he got things passed."
Sure. The Democrats were not pro-terrorist, pro al-Qaeda. While many Democrats did not trust the President (with good reason, as it turns out), they also didn't want Saddam Hussein developing atomic / nuclear weaponry. And, what a surprise, it turns out that the "evidence" was ginned up, the way the "liberal" press told you it was. I think Rush Limbaugh called Valerie Plame a "paper-pusher" and said that "everybody knew her identity." Uh huh.
But, Jim, thanks for the wake-up call! What do YOU see as Obama's Agenda?
Uh, actually, Jim, you do.
Or, let me put it another way - you cannot understand science if you do not accept evolution, because eventually the two disciplines will bump into one another and you will have to reject one or the other.
- What about all of the rebublicans who are against the clean air act,
My point isn't that only people who pander to the EC voter profess to be against science, my point is that candidates that profess to be against science are at the same time professing to be too ignorant to be entrusted with legislating on important matters facing our country, let alone to be entrusted with Leading The Free World.
- Stop blaming where the right is coming from on some quasi-evangelical-conservative platform.
OK, how many Republican Presidential candidates in the last election said they accepted evolution? What was it, Huckabee, Brownback, Tancredo, and McCain? This year, it's, who? Huntsman, Gingrich, and Romney? Sorry, Jim, Michelle Bachmann, fits the bill, and by her standards of "you're only as good as the company you keep," the current front-runner, Rick Perry, keeps company with leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation, which would seem to also, uh, fit the bill.
But of course, that's just one arm. The same way Coke wants to sell you variants of filtered and flavored water, the GOP has other ways of branding corporate-first policies, and that's through the fake "Libertarian" wing, which gets its messaging from the Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute and the like.
Maybe not, but he beat his opponent by nine and a half million votes. The last guy lost to his opponent by five hundred thousand votes, you can look it up.
- but the people aren't politically aligned with Obama's ideology
Well, Jim, here's your chance - what do you think that Obama's ideology really is?
- you really do have and US vs. THEM view of the country, don't you?
Not of the citizens so much as the economic forces that shape our nation. There is a "them," and many of "us" work for "them," because, well, it's satisfying work or remunerative or it just plain beats non-working.
We talk a lot about small business owners, but the fact is, nobody cares about them - neither party cares about them. Both parties care about the oligarchs - the handful of companies that control almost every industry except, Jim, real estate. Four cellphone companies, soon there will be three. A handful of booksellers. A few oil & gas companies. A handful of food processors, meat processors - half of the nation's chicken comes from Tyson & Pilgrim's Pride.
But the Republicans care about corporate interests more. The Democrats, at least, have a history of asking their corporate masters for some crumbs for the working person - some health and safety concessions, environmental protections, maybe a few bucks for pensions and a few tax dollars here and there. The Republicans are consistently, and on the record, against anything that stands between a corporation and their dollar.
If that means telling the EC crowd that they're right on creationism, if it means pretending that the world's scientific community is somehow "on the take," if it means pretending that pollutants aren't harmful and that pumping HFCS into schools is "providing refreshment options," and adding hormones to the food and hormone disruptors to the packaging, then, so be it.
And what affects me in my job is that, if it means telling people that taxes are too high and teachers are overpaid greedy union freeloaders, then the net result is that my local schools deteriorate and so do the housing values. Not to mention the increased likelihood that my client's kids are less likely to qualify for good colleges, less likely to earn good livings as adults, less likely to be able to care for their parents.
So, yes. There is an "Us," and there is a "Them." Sometimes, we're the same people!
Fact is the biggest customer for big business is the government in all its forms. So even if you are not working in a govt job that primary demand from the GSA and local govts buys a lot of paperclips and vehicles. So stopping the many govt agencies from buying anything is a great way to destroy our economy. So destry public education, make it a voucher system so we can pay a for profit company to teach our kids, have private security firms do police work so we can pay through our taxes an uncontrolled entity.
Again, the Democratic Party is not a Liberal party. Those "Blue-Dog" Democrats who didn't support RomneyCare - oh, I meant to say, ObamaCare - were opposed to it for the same reasons they were opposed to it in the '90s: they truly didn't want to spend the money. They are conservatives. (Many of them lost their seats to even more conservative Republicans in 2010, ostensibly because of the branding).
The pretense that the Democrats are somehow socialists, communists, et cetera is just that, pretense. But, here's the thing. Democrats, at least, accept science. Democrats accept that the entire scientific community that doesn't work for oil companies think that we should be working just as hard to prevent further climate change as we do to prevent damage from hurricanes. Democrats, regardless of their religious affiliation, accept evolution as a more useful explanation of biohistory than a man built a boat and got two of everything on it.
Now, it's a slippery slope, because if you trust science, then you start to trust data, and if you trust data, you find out that it's cheaper for a nation to educate and feed its children - even those of drug-addicted irresponsible parents - than it is to deal with those children in adolescence and adulthood. You find out that it's cheaper to cut pollution than it is to treat illnesses caused by pollution. You find out that it's cheaper to fund primary medical care than to treat people at ERs.
You may even find that America has become a tax haven for rich people, imposing on them one of the most gentle burdens in the First World, and that we've done so at the price of borrowing trillions of dollars while cutting back on those investments that would assure that America remains the primary economic power throughout the 21st century.
Which is why the other side likes to talk stupid chit, because it keeps their "base" from actually learning anything useful, in which case they may stop supporting people who promise job growth from tax cuts. Wouldn't that be a shame!
Not even close, Jim.
The Left doesn't actually have any power, Jim. We are not especially pro-corporate people, so we don't have the backing of big business. The Left is really just about people, average, ordinary citizens. We do not have the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and David Koch funding astroturf(tm) tea-party-type groups on our behalf.
The fact is, we have to remember the good old days, when we were adding to education budgets, passing clean-air and clean-water legislation, protecting worker's rights and voter rights and consumer protection rights. Ah - right, Elizabeth Warren. Couldn't have a federal Consumer Protection Agency mucking up things for the banksters, could we?
What you and others see as this wild left-wing Democratic Party is actually to the right of the 1970s Republicans. Richard Nixon passed the first environmental legislation, you know. Ronald Reagan came up with cap-and-trade. The Heritage Foundation came up with universal health care coverage with mandates. The last Democratic president balanced the budget and threw people off of welfare, the last Republican President added five trillion dollars to the deficit and gave us the worst recession of our lifetimes.
My complaint against those who oppose Obama from the Right is that they should be thankful to have a President who will give them what they want. Or, rather, what they wanted until it was actually within reach, at which time their former demands became some socialist commie Kenyan American-hating policies devised to destroy the country.
The Left wants Single Payer, Medicare for All. The Left wants to sign on to Kyoto. The Left wants clean air and water. The Left wants wholesome food served to schoolchildren, and more funding for schools while we're at it. The Left wants bridges that will not collapse, roads that are passable without sustaining whiplash, subsidized public transportation, energy independence that does not trample on the rights of private property owners (read, pipelines to transport oil sands), the Left wants Congress to raise taxes on the wealthy to above the Clinton-era rates to pay off the deficit that the Bush tax cuts and unfunded spending created, and the Left wants Congress to raise money to put Americans back to work.
None of which seems to be rabidly endorsed by today's Democratic Party, by the way.
Americans seem to love America more than they love Americans.
During the Vietnam War, it was somehow seen as "unpatriotic" to protest sacrificing thirty or forty thousand American lives in order to "save face."
Today, we have candidates for high public office - Senators, Governors, the Presidency - who seem to not like Americans very much. They speak as if we are a shiftless, lazy, bunch that won't get off our duffs unless we're forced to by the threat of extreme poverty. They speak as if the only way we are of value to the economy is if we give up the right to organize, give up our pensions, give up the Social Security and Medicare that we've paid into. They speak as if only heterosexuals should have the right to love, to live life openly, to engage in civil "marriage" - in fact, it is said that if "gays marry," that it will somehow destroy the marriages of the hetrosexual.
Today, President Obama essentially said that we need to continue to allow industry to poison the air because if we don't, industry will somehow take away "hundreds of thousands of jobs." Earlier this week, Michelle Bachmann said that Americans brought on the Virginia Earthquake and Hurricane Irene because we were somehow not responsive to the Lord.
Over the past couple of years, we've talked about people who are underwater in their homes, dividing them into the "responsible people who played by the rules," and "the irresponsible people who used their homes as an ATM," as if that somehow wasn't playing by the rules. When we talked about restructuring the nation's mortgage debt, the first opposing argument was that this would benefit the undeserving, while the "responsible" borrower would be somehow ignored.
So, Ed, I agree with you. We've become a nation that doesn't like each other very much. I'm a part of it, too. I don't like people who would vote for a candidate that rejects science and history. But, that's just me.
I say no, because he is half white and half of African decent. He is as whlte as he is black, and only through racist eyes would someone think he is a black President. If he was half cherokee and half white, or half Jewish and white, would he be called a Cherokee or Jew? Only in America can someone 50/50 be named the least disrable of the two. By calling him black, it is disregarding his white heritage. He is of mixed heritage, not much more exotic than if he was half Korean and half anglo, or half Mexican and half Italian. I do believe if we peel the onion, his lack of legitimacy from day one for 25% of the people was bigotry or racism at its core. That same 25% wouldnt vote for a Jew or Mormon.
Remember when parents kept their kids out of school to protect them from the messaged broadcast of the President? Lack of respect for the office of the presidency unlike any other time in history. Hip hop BBQ? Boehner declines invitations. Cheeit, How many countries have a woman prime minister or head of state? Acknowledge we are a backwater country that thinks a nipple flip is porno and we are so frigging special! The only thing we have going for us is our high self esteem. No humility, no sense of togetherness or community. Hoorah for me and scrrew you attitude. GOP is all about boot straps, but you have to have bootstraps in order to pull up your boots.
Did Neal Peart write the lyrics to that one? Isn't he a "libertarian" in the Ayn Rand / Objectivist / Atheist mold?
Here's what I preach, brethren: if you bring water into the field, you'll get a better yield.
Another tough day for the conservapublicans, as Dick "I fought the law" Cheney continues to make the rounds. Amazing sort of Tough Guy. Bomb, fight, tough, war - held on to about twenty mil of Halliburton stock while VP (probably because the "law" applies to other people), attended Obama's inauguration in a wheel chair with a lap blanket, now hitting the talk shows acting like a strong and forceful, uh, author?
The "rule of law" Republicans, those "strict constitutionalists" that always seem to find excuses for evading the law, evading the Constitution, or if they have time, changing the laws and trying to change the Constitution
to suit their goals.
Hypocrisy is strong this past week, as Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann, both outspoken opponents of the Federal Income Tax and support repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, both on the stump calling for extending the Income Tax to the poorest American families. They have gone from, "Nobody should pay anything," to, "Everybody should pay something." Amazing.
We all know that the Republicans, hating government intervention and interference with Property Rights, don't even like Zoning because it amounts to a "Taking," as described in the Fifth Amendment. Meanwhile, they've decided they'd like to build a pipeline. Putting aside the argument over the merits or demerits of the project, how, exactly, would the land and rights-of-way be obtained?
By the Government applying the principle of "eminent domain" to Take Property from Legally Titled Landowners.
Jim, this is what I mean by "faith" as it relates to politics. People believe that the Republican Party is opposed to Government Interfering In Our Lives, which is at odds with the GOP being the Law-And-Order Party. They "believe" that the GOP is a small-government party, when they have a history of expanding government at every opportunity. Yes, even Rick Perry and Mitt Romney. They "believe" that the GOP is a defender of property rights, because they're against taxing the rich. But they're for taxing the working poor, and they're for the Government taking your property if you're in the way of Progress or Energy Independence or whatever - it's still Your Property, until the GOP thinks it should be "communized" - taken for the Public Good.
They are "libertarian" so long as gays don't want to marry or even be seen as gay; they are religious conservatives except that they freely "make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God" and are on TV every Sunday even though "the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any workâ€”you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns."
Frankly, compared to this, being labeled a "socialist" isn't all that bad.
Oh, by the way. Ted Nugent? Really? Do you think that if he'd said those things about Bush that he wouldn't have been taken on a personal tour of Cuba?
Wendy Liebman once noted, after a similar experience, that they certainly named it appropriately.
But you bring up another lie against single-payer, which is that "you have to wait weeks in Canada to see a doctor." Well, you have to wait weeks in America, too. Try calling your doc up for a physical tomorrow. It will be, "See You In September!" And if you left your doctor's office with a referral today, it's probably the same song.
This is what I mean by: garbage in, garbage out. We talk about whether some poor soul who came across the border for a better life gets treated at public expense at an ER, rather than the incredible profits of the health insurance industry. Ron Williams at Aetna, $24 million compensation package in 2008. Sure, he "earned" it - at whose expense?
- My point: there extremists in both tents because the tents are massive.
I'm not sure how Van Jones fits in as an extremist, or even as a person important to the discussion. I think it's more to the point that eleven of the top twelve Republican Presidential Candidates are either nut cases, criminals, or both (Newt Gingrich, all-star two-way player). The one sane and apparently honest guy, Jon Huntsman, is at 1% among Republicans.
Back when Donald Trump was a favorite among Republicans, half of Republican voters polled said they believed that the President was, while weak and ineffectual, smart enough to have hidden his Kenyan birth from the US security apparatus.
This does not bode well for thinking people. There are real problems facing the country, but if we pretend that hurricanes are punishment for having an IRS or whatever Bachmann's joking about, or we pretend that our problems are solved if we just stopped serving illegal immigrants at the ER, or by keeping taxes low on corporations and really rich people, or pretend that our government's investing in our own future is somehow immoral, then, we're not going to solve any problems at all.
Again. Ideology attempting to trump reason, logic, and pragmatism.
This is essentially saying, "Sure, government has the power to help make people's lives better, but to do so would be so socialistic that it's better to stand by and do nothing instead."
- They hate what endless ambition and work can produce
Yes, they hate us for our hot real estate market. Sigh.
- What we have now is a corporate communist delivery system, just like China,
This is why it's so important to go past the rhetoric. The positive effect of Obama pushing for RomneyCare was that it would get coverage to more people faster. That's a good thing.
The negative effect is that the only people who really like RomneyCare are insurance companies.
- As bad as things look for Obama, though, it's hard to imagine anyone else having done better.
Only if you're a serious thinker, Paula Francis!
Calling Obama a socialist doesn't make him one, but it does make it easier for some to forget what the options were. Well, for the Democrats, there's really a strong team - it could have been Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden or Howard Dean or John Edwards or we could have gone to the old-timer's team and brought back Al Gore or John Kerry - these are all first-rate intelligent people who know and understand the issues of the day.
The Republicans? Well, they selected John McCain, who almost fell asleep at the economic summit HE CALLED before the election. Newt Gingrich received the worst punishment ever given a sitting Speaker. Almost every Republican candidate for the White House professes that creationism is just as good an explanation as evolution and that scientists are conspiring against business because, well, they just are!
Stay strong, and welcome!
Dems do not "lack balls" as you put it when criticizing Obama. I want Obama campaign slogan to be, "Give 'em helll Barry"... He is bringing a knofe to a gunfight. I want Obama to got ape chit on the GOP congress and wage his finger every day and shame congress for every week that passes until the congress puts forth a jobs plan. Not that that is the kind of critisism you're looking for. Facts are facts, said it before but you have GOP co=sponsors of bills that vote against what they themselves co-sponsored. The fillibuster has been used to not allow federal appointments to important government agencies and judges. Remember, pleasure of the president Bush used for everything??? Well Obama has the right to have the pleasure of being the president and appoint people to vacant jobs. The GOP fillibuster is way overused to stall government. It is there to recommend allowing something to go for a straight up or down vote.
Paint the GOP as being unpatriotic tp hold the levers of government hostage to a loud, vocal and obnoxious minority. The GOP is running against Obama instead of for anything other than tax cuts for the job creators and cutting social programs. GOP lacks finacial patriotism and is willing to do whatever it costs in normal people suffering to make Obama a one term President. That my friends is un-american!
You look like the kind of a guy that got pretty good discipline from your father. It did not dwarf your growth.
How intrusive does government need to be in interfering as to how parents raise and discipline their children?
When I watch how parents send in their videos of using taco sauce as one solution just to be invited to be guests on a tv show, it gives me the chills where this nation has gone.
The stupidity of taking privacy of a family conflict to the public on how to discipline their children to new limits While our courts react to it as if they did not have more serious things to worry about and spend millions of tax payer's dollars dealing with stupid people doing stupid things. There are two kinds of disciplines. One that works and the one that does not. Soon there will be no punishment humane enough even to deal to our criminals .Lets just punish the victims. Our society needs a good old fashion spanking to wake them up.
I sure welcome your comments. But, are you refering to me when you say things like: "Stop whining and focus on your business" etc, etc...????
To those who don't want to participate in this discussion, -then Don't! I respect that...
Also, don't comment until you've read this whole thread and have a better knowledge of peoples true perspectives.
The direction of our Country has everything to do with my Real Estate Bus. and my Life in general.
C'est la vie.
They were the product the enlightenment age. When they invoke the creator they are not referring to a christian order of things. Deists believe in a higher power, but not that divinity involves itself in human affairs. Kind of a unitarian view of the world and the creator.
grandpa did you take your pill yet?
take your pill grandpa and take a nap.
I'm betting on the third option, myself.
Turns out that Darryl Issa interceded on behalf of Apetra Motors' loan from the DOE, the Republican outrage is . . .