Be thankful some past citizens went to war for our sorry axxes, even though they pretty much had to. Some are in the ground over it. Many survive(d) and should enjoy the weekend with their families. I wonder how many are conservatives, how many progressives looking for a better tomorrow. I'm playing TAPs on Monday morning and later in the day will do my retail thing for the Memorial Day Sale, " Any coupons lady?" Thanks and come again. Nice how we mix national pauses to remember and then crowd the highways to the shore and hold car and retail Sales. Kind of real American of us, isn't it?
And gas is $3.49 at the lowest priced stations. There is a reward for our law-abiding behavior, not protesting the sorry economy, the jobs market, the prospects for new graduates, the mounting debt in every city and county. Every time I get edgy and want to take to the streets, a national holday comes along and I get a new low price for gas so we can drive to the beach. Some of us. Happy holiday everyone! Drive safely.

- If you remember right, I was for letting the Bush Tax cuts expire

Actually, that's not what I remember, but if I haven't before, welcome aboard!

- and the answer is more than likely.

You're kidding, right?

- Jim Horney says / easily could take that total into the $100 trillion range.

Is that correct? My understanding - and I'm willing to be corrected on this - is that Social Security is like an insurance company: premiums come in and are used to pay off liabilities; currently, SS is running a surplus. Pension funds are somewhat different, in that the inflow of funds will stop if the company shuts down, but the liability is still there.

Insurance companies do not have "runs" the way banks do - they do not have to be able to fulfill all of their future obligations today.

HOWEVER.

There is no avoiding the fact that even if the lower number is correct, $1.3 trillion is a lot of money to be behind. So far as I can tell, no "serious" conservative has come up with a remedy for that - you could eliminate all military spending and still have half of that left to go.

We got here by cutting taxes and spending more, a deliberate plan on the part of the Republican Party to fulfill Grover Norquist's stated goal of shrinking government to the size where it could be drowned in a bathtub, using a strategy put forth in the Wall Street Journal by Jude Wanniski, which is for the GOP to run up the deficit while in office and howl at the Democrats to cut spending while out of office.

Seems to be working . . .

Thanks Investormania,

Good to see somebody contribute something that's current and not giving opinions about prohibition, Victorians, the gold standard going away in the 1930's (Actually 1971 but that's what happens when you make bleep up), McCarthyism, Iran-Contra, Victorians, Favorite Dogs and cats and blah, blah, blah, blah....

One note on just how distorted the comments have been includes the comment about Gold..

Gee... In 1933 an ounce of gold was worth $20.67 in paper money. Today.... an ounce of Gold is worth $1,567.90 while that paper money in 1933 is now worth.... $20.67 if you take it to the bank.

Doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that buying an ounce of gold with $20.67 back in 1933 was better then taking that cash and sticking it under the mattress.

Obviously somebody does not understand Fractional Banking and printing up dollars to pay the bills.

For those that still don't get it... then I've got a couple of 1923 $50,000,000 Deutsche Mark bills I'll sell to you for $1,000,000....

Should be quite a fantastic deal in your fantasy world. Go take out a loan for the cash.... interest rates are low and it's a great "investment". Lol...


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Chapter 8—U.S. Government Cannot Cover Existing Obligations


Annual GAAP-Based Federal Deficits at $5 Trillion

The continuing $5 trillion GAAP-based federal deficit remains unsustainable, uncontainable and is unstable. Against a headline, official quasi-cash-basis and gimmicked reporting of a $1.3 trillion federal budget deficit in 2011, GAAP-based accounting (using generally accepted accounting principles) indicated that the actual 2011 deficit ran somewhat in excess of $5 trillion for the year. The largest difference between these estimates was that the GAAP-based number includes the widening shortfall of unfunded liabilities for social insurance programs, such as Social Security and Medicare.

As shown in the accompanying table of “U.S. Government – Alternative Fiscal Deficit and Debt Numbers” (SGS Table), the various 2011 deficit estimates remained close to the same horrendous levels as estimated for 2010. Based on the 2011 Financial Report of the United States Government the 2011 cash-based federal deficit at $1.299 trillion was little changed against the $1.294 trillion estimate for 2010. The limited GAAP-based deficit (before consideration of changes in social insurance unfunded liabilities), narrowed to $1.313 trillion in 2011, from $2.080 trillion in 2010, but that was due almost entirely to one-time reporting/assumption changes in Veterans Benefits and U.S. government liabilities tied to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Accordingly, the operating deficits effectively were about the same level in both 2010 and 2011.

In like manner, the indicated full GAAP-based deficits (including annual change in the net present value of social insurance programs) of $4.6 trillion in 2011 and $5.3 trillion in 2010, effectively were about $5 trillion in each of 2011 and 2010, adjusted for one-time reporting changes.
Federal Debt and Net Present Value of Unfunded Liabilities Exceed $80 Trillion

The numbers discussed in the text here are those from the GAO-Based Alternative version of the 2011 numbers as shown in the SGS Table. Unfortunately, the government’s financial reporting has become nearly as heavily politicized as some of its economic reporting. Unlike the economic numbers, though, the financial data are audited (where possible) by the GAO (Government Accountability Office, formerly the General Accounting Office).

In the 2010 statement, consistent year-to-year accounting was not shown, with a large, one-time reduction in reported Medicare liabilities being based on overly optimistic assumptions of the impact from the then recently enacted healthcare legislation. Referred to in the government’s statements as the Affordable Care Act (ACA), the full GAAP-based results from the ACA accounting showed an annual surplus of $7.0 trillion in 2010, but again, that was not in terms of consistent reporting, which would have been along the lines of a $5 trillion annual deficit.

The new health-care enhanced Medicare results used in the government’s statements were prepared under the auspices of the Obama Administration, but the GAO did not fully buy into the happy numbers in 2010 or again in 2011, with disclaimers of opinion. The GAO went so far as to run an “Illustrative Alternative Scenario” (pages 130 and 134, respectively of the 2010 and 2011 statements) to the government’s overly optimistic Medicare adjustments. The “Alternative” versions appear to have more realistic assumptions than the politicized data used in official ACA-based data. Unfortunately, under present accounting conditions there simply is no way of coming up with truly meaningful hard number, in terms of total government obligations.

Where the “Alternative” data used here show $80.9 trillion of U.S. government debt, obligations and the net present value of the unfunded social security liabilities, as of September 30, 2011, that likely is shy of reality. Adding estimates of government liabilities in, and exposures to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the PBGC and FDIC easily could take that total into the $100 trillion range. Publicized estimates of U.S. government exposure beyond the $100 trillion mark usually included gross unfunded liabilities, which are not adjusted for net present value (NPV). NPV reflects the amount of cash needed in hand today to be able to cover a future obligation. In any event, $80.9 trillion in U.S. government obligations in excess of five-times U.S. GDP.

SOURCE: shadowstats

The last succesful conservative movement was the prohibition. Bad idea, christianist leaders and victorian leftovers thinking all the social problems would go away if alcohol made illegal and would keep families together, stop drunkeness of unemployed husbands. that was the last time the extremists had power and abused it, that experiment went badly. The US govt ran on excise taxes and because of prohibition had to find a new income stream, called income taxes. Import duties and excise taxes covered big gubbermint military and limited govt role. So anyway, when was the last time any conservative iniative stood the test of time and was correct in hindsight? NEVER. conservatives were in the 1930's complaining about the gold standard going away, wrong on that front too. Tell me whenever conservatives were right on anything from letting the south suceed to isolationist policy regarding WW's to against interracial marriage, called GI bill welfare at the time it was introduced, called social security and medicare welfare when it was on the table, the list goes on and on. McCarthy era witch trials, Iran contra, savings and loan bailout for billy Bush, younger brother of george, deregulating financial markets and creating loopholes that encourage speculation and finacialiszation of business through leveraged buyouts. etc on and on. You guys are never right on nothing

"But the bigger point for someone like you is: what makes you think that Romney has a brilliant plan for cutting a trillion dollars in spending without raising taxes - and without throwing the country back into recession?"

If you remember right, I was for letting the Bush Tax cuts expire except for the Capital Gains Tax rate for Real Estate Investments due to what was going on / still going on with real estate.

I was also for letting the Payroll Tax cut end and not be extended.... especially at a time when SSN is going BK.

By the way.... New Report hitting the news showing the true National Deficit at $5 Trillion a year:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-05-18/fed…

"Jim Horney, a former Senate budget staff expert now at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, says retirement programs should not count as part of the deficit because, unlike a business, Congress can change what it owes by cutting benefits or lifting taxes.

"It's not easy, but it can be done. Retirement programs are not legal obligations," he says."

Lots of laughing.... and you cry foul about a privatized SSN system.

A bigger question for a guy like me is if the Crony Capitalism is going to end and more of a focus will be turned to small businesses (which fuel Main Street and Not Wall Street) under Romney and the answer is more then likely.

As you always say.... The Rich have gotten Richer and that certainly did not change under Obama. Big Wall St. Banksters are reporting their highest profits since 2007... And the Big Banksters are pretty much running real estate nowadays.

Will borrowed and printed up money be spent better for a bigger Return on Investment under Romney? Absolutely. He understands what an investment is to begin with.

You might claim the recession is over but when you factor in the couple of Trillion dollars printed up to keep the music from ending and the 6 million home loans out there right now in serious delinquency status (people not paying their mortgages and having money to spend in the economy) ---- the only thing that's been accomplished under this administration is lipstick has been put on a pig.

As we know in Real Estate --- when you don't rehab a house the right way --- the issues will eventually rear their ugly head.

Fact of the matter is that the interest on the Public Debt is now larger then the GDP and the interest on the public debt is now growing faster then the GDP.

Four more years?

= Disaster.

Then again.... four more years and I just might go out and take out all of the debt I can and just default with everybody else when all of the cards come falling down.

Then I'll Take all the Gold/Silver to Costa Rica and open up a little bar by the beach until the riots end...

Hmmmm....

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Las hope you don't think it is forward of me to make a comment what is the difference being prejudiced against another man's race religion or in this case his money?

I have heard nothing but prejudice from these good old folks pretending to fight for the the have nots with their unstoppable communist envy against the rich .

Well we have one for you. Romney did more than just put his money up where his mouth is not like Warren Buffet who just talks about it and how much less tax he pays than his secretary. Romney actually volunteered to do something about the economy and run for president. He dared to open up his tax returns and stood the scrutiny of his salving critics. Why not ask Obama to return his earnings as president and see what he will say. Read his next book.

While Buffet gives interviews how he could fix the deficit in thirty minutes

My beef with Romney was that he was not conservative enough to face down a rag to riches basketball player who's entire life's story centers around that he wasn't white enough nor black enough to fit in society. So he hates both and we allow his revenge to spill over a nation that he divides by it.
Yes Romney's faith and religion and his loving faithful family is a open for envious hate and laughter and pointed jokes for the Liberals who have no respect for family nor religion . To whom God is just another name they swear by with every lie they make
.Romney has made money and so what? Wealth that angers the commies which terrifies them as it is used against them. Truly a good reason to fear him more reason to elect him.

- Obama never stopped campaigning since the last election.

Well, what first-termer does?

- About $217 Million compared to Romney's $97.6 Million...

Like I say, it's hard to open up your wallet to a guy worth three hundred mil.

Fact is, this is 'way too much money.

But the bigger point for someone like you is: what makes you think that Romney has a brilliant plan for cutting a trillion dollars in spending without raising taxes - and without throwing the country back into recession?

"I think it's a tough sell for a working person to open up their wallet to a guy worth three hundred million dollars, myself."

I agree with you on that...

But what's the Obama Campaign War Chest at right now?

About $217 Million compared to Romney's $97.6 Million...

And let's face it..... Obama never stopped campaigning since the last election.

Pretty scary thinking what would happen if he did not have to worry about getting elected for a third term...

Especially considering how he already thumbs his nose at any other branch of Government not being run by his minions in the DNC.


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what cult members are asked to be open to - the possibility that everything they know that is verifiable is wrong.

I know you Mack and that proves your point.

Animal Farm was required reading at my High School... Hopefully it still is.

Atlas Shrugged by Anne Ryan is more timely. We already have Animal Farms in our High Schools hopefully we could change that.

- Short and sweet with generic messages asking to volunteer, recruit, donate as little as $3

I think it's a tough sell for a working person to open up their wallet to a guy worth three hundred million dollars, myself.

- you are not open for any new ideas based on facts

Please. Some of us have been paying attention over the past forty years, some others simply know the difference between a "libertarian" state that benefits the wealthiest few at the expense of everybody else. Romney has been a lot of things in his career, but I don't think "libertarian" has ever been among them.

The evidence is in. Tax cuts do not strengthen the economy. Firing government workers does not strengthen the economy. Free trade helps those in the lowlands at the expense of people on higher ground.

What we'd have to be open to is what cult members are asked to be open to - the possibility that everything they know that is verifiable is wrong. I tell you, Paul - I'm not about to vote for a man who thinks the world is six thousand years old.

I'll admit.... the daily e-mail campaign from Obama2012 is far superior then Romney's camp.

I signed up and entered to win the Dinner with Obama & Clinton in NYC. Airfare and Hotel included for giving them my e-mail. Cool trip.... Why not?

Now I get my daily e-mails from the Obama Campaign.

Short and sweet with generic messages asking to volunteer, recruit, donate as little as $3, etc, etc...

Messina is a pretty sharp campaign manager..... I'll certainly give them that.

Even though Obama's Economic policies have been a complete disaster and have only dug the hole deeper.... he's a very likable guy.

Unlike you GOP haters that have to make up history and stereotype anybody that does not have a "D" after their last name..... I've given specific reasons why another four years of Obama would be a disaster.

And that's the problem with you GOP haters..... you are not open for any new ideas based on facts if they are from somebody that does not Baaah along with the DNC minions. In your world, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz is honest (LOL!) and Paul Ryan is a liar. Nancy Pelosi is a genius and Eric Cantor is an idiot.

With you guys... it has nothing to do with capability, It's all about the Party.

Republicans and Libertarians are Baaaahd..... Baaaah.

And you wonder why we call you Sheeple. Animal Farm was required reading at my High School... Hopefully it still is.

Have a Great Day!


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Basically, even the GOP is ashamed of its "accomplishments.


Now you are overstating your facts again.

The democrats could not agree to a budget in four years with a majority both in congress and in the senate.
The republicans have and they had the votes to prove it.

Look at the midterm election results to boot : Unless you had amnesia or kept your dial on CBS you missed the impact of the awakening results.
The momentum is growing and the blind are beginning to see.

Well, you can't have capitalism without debt, so I guess you're saying that we had "too much capitalism."

Lately I talked to some visiting Russians and asked is socialism on the rise in Russia? They laughed Russians are are more capitalistic than Americans. The problem is not capitalism bur a corrupt system that is robbing them blind. Hey who says we don't have things in common.




Trickle down economy has met it's match in Europe. They turned it upside down and just wait for the
results. Socialism has triumphed in France and perhaps in Greece/ Who knows it could spread to Germany. Drip drip no trickle? Just Socialism the old fashioned way.
I have no problem with that at all. As long as we Americans don't follow in their footsteps. All the shake up in Europe is proving to be great for American real estate and for the Dollar. All those that have the good sense and the money bring it right here. The moment they see that Obama is out and Socialism has NO roots in America watch how we will enter The New Golden Age that America has always been destined.
Instead of asking are we better off than before Obama ask if we rather be like Socialist Europe or America without Obama which makes the obvious difference. Question answered .

"If you water the garden it will grow."

Carl,

Problem is that the only things the Obama Administration has watered for the past three years is the desert and weeds ......


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Gabriel Palotas, Broker, Pompano Beach, FL
Mitt Romney supported the President's stimulus program. Mitt Romney supports the Fed.

- and focus on making promises for votes

You can always agree on some things that make sense . Just as it doesn't make sense to agree when it doesn't. The problem with Obama is not what he frequently says that is wrong but what he does in contradiction.
Now that brings up a trust issue. Just like doing cocaine and admitting to it would make any other man land in Jail. Obama admits to it and he lands in the White House.
So why not let all those that do what he did and get away with it. Do what you say or just shut the F up .

- You can smear, swear, and lie and blame everyone else.You won;t change the premise of their argument.

Which you have learned first-hand.

- PERIOD.

Well, you can't have capitalism without debt, so I guess you're saying that we had "too much capitalism."

- those trillions of dollars have not gone to improving the infrastructure of this country.

Mitt Romney supported the President's stimulus program. Mitt Romney supports the Fed.

- and focus on making promises for votes

Or changing positions.

- Are you simple?

Yeah, pretty much.

Basically, even the GOP is ashamed of its "accomplishments." Starving the beast - they succeeded, but do they mention that it was their plan all along? Stacking the Supreme Court with free-market police-state activist judges, same thing. Bringing the country to the brink of default to exact cuts from pensioners? Well, on that one, they've promised, "We'll do it again!"

They're even ashamed of their history. A little while ago, Ronald Reagan was supposedly the Greatest President who ever lived. Now, the GOP is essentially denouncing his policies as socialist / communistic / Muslim-inspired / Kenyan (not Kenyesian) born.

Politics aside, even the so-called "smart" people who hate the Fed and hate the Stimulus and hate ObamaCare . . . are backing the guy who invented ObamaCare, applauded the Stimulus, and is a fan of the Fed.

So, what's left? One guy is okay with gays not being able to marry and the notion that the earth is 6000 years old? That's the better choice for America?

Hmmmm.

Al Sharpen is a man of vision usually double vision but I am happy for your choice. Next time you have a riot in New Jersey you know you can count on him leading the charge.
I bet he agrees with you on the important achievements of the Third Reich too.
But than look at Jesse Ovens he too was welcomed by Hitler until he put your White Pure Athletes to shame proving that they were good but we had someone that was better.
It just takes a race to prove it. Ready, Set, Go and they are off
May the best man win. That is the way it's done in America. Strikes only counts in bowling. In Baseball it's three strikes your out. With Obama just as he said it himself if I don't get the job done I don't serve to be re elected. Well said don't you think?

Oh, alright. I will change my vote. Al Sharpton. Anyone who sang backup with James Brown is OK in my book. How bad could it be. "I feel Good now."

Find someone other than Obama in the Democratic Party. Its no to late for Democrats .They have as many qualified people that could take on the job and do better and you know it.

Just get out of this rot ad this terrible divide for it will destroy this nation.
With Obama there is no alternative. For now any other choice is better just to move on for the change is as good as the remedy it offers. Feeling better may be perception but I choose it over malaise.
Fresh start is as welcome as fresh hope. Open the windows and let the fresh air in.
A new broom always sweeps cleaner sweeping it under the bed does not help it just hides the dirt.

So now it's my fault.... for the debt, the economy, for Obama. You are the man though. Trouble with all that is, it is personal. We have the present state of affairs. We disagree on the causes. We disagree on the solutions. We disagree along the spectrum of liberal-conservative philosophies. We think we see how each of us has arrived at our beliefs. I call it a draw. But neither of us will give up.

So he failed because he tripled the debt? You mean even with the continued wars and the inherited results? Are you simple? Or, is it really that simple? I'm glad you never became a politician nor were elected, else we would be deeper do-do than we are. We run the national economy like a household, you say, and we would be OK. Spend what we earn after saving a little for a rainy day.


No Carl we failed. You and me and the rest of us that should have known better.
You would not have your kids ride a school buss driven by a novice with a learners permit.
We would not send our kids to war without the proper training and equipment
We still encourage our kids to go to school knowing well that life is the best teacher and we all graduate from the school of hard knocks.
We hire people with experience to grow our business not those without that destroy it.
We still believe in the freshens test of biting into a fruit and when it tastes bad we spit it out.
We still believe that it is easy to make a mistake and we admit to it.
We still believe it is better living with the truth than living in a lie
It is not wrong for a nation electing a president because we believed that he was the right person for the right time.
Obama was
Today Obama is not.
Get that straight in your head it is not political it is just the simple truth.
If you believe that you are better off on account of him stand up and cheer him . Nothing wrong with that. You are entitled to that observation.
It is wrong however when you deny that there are those that stand up and disagree with you.
You can smear, swear, and lie and blame everyone else.You won;t change the premise of their argument.
Good man don't become bad overnight they just fall out of practice.
The problem with men like you is not that you are not able recognize a good man for what they are but let;s face it no one is perfect but there are others that are more qualified.
Obama is not the one that hurts us it is people like you that are attempting to convince us to change our opinions and to think as you do. Sorry ain't happening. I vote according to my views not yours.

"The question is what will our country look like 10-20 years from now

With all the hoopla in an election year let's clear the air with what really maters.
The debate goes which candidate offers the best solution to our countries future?


The answer is rather simple at least for those who are honest enough to handle the truth.
The nations debt is no different than a ordinary households credit card debt.
Most of us are under the impression that as long as you make your minimum payment on your debt your credit is sound and there is nothing to worry about.
The original question to answer is how long will it take to pay off the loan given you have the resources to pay it with. Since most people who are treading water can pay no more than the minimum payment which when you look at your monthly statement doesn't even put a dent on the balance.
This burden instead of decreasing is constantly growing especially if you fall behind.

Any presidential candidate that is not able to find a way to reduce the national debt is adding further pressures on it's citizens and to their pay load. So here it is there is no magic bullet there is no smooth words that make this reality disappear. The leadership to consider is the one that is honest enough to admit that deep cuts in spending are the only solution to drastically reduce the balance of debt and have the good sense to create jobs not by increasing taxes but to create revenues from steady employment that eliminates the debt.

The Obama administration failed to follow the simple policy of making the required minimum payments and instead of cutting the debt tripled it.
Read the enclosed article that will open your eyes to how simple it really is to know that debt kills and as long as the debt is on the increase you figure it out how our country will be in 10- or 20 years.
No guessing here just think of your meager debt on your credit cards in comparison where will the balance be in four to ten years. Will you have a job that will survive the pressure of your needs or are you concerned as you are getting older without any savings how you will survive when you won't be able to earn what you do today. ? Many people just live from one day to the next. Their problems don't go away nor will our nations. Time to get real this is not a conservative point of view this is a simple man's view that understands that debt is not politics but those that lie about it are politicians,
What we need today is not a liar but someone like you and me who understands that without debt life does get easier. A leader that follows that simple policy is electable. There is no need to think too hard on this question. Less debt or more? Or Dream on.

So he failed because he tripled the debt? You mean even with the continued wars and the inherited results? Are you simple? Or, is it really that simple? I'm glad you never became a politician nor were elected, else we would be deeper do-do than we are. We run the national economy like a household, you say, and we would be OK. Spend what we earn after saving a little for a rainy day.
Check out the movie Being There. Chauncy was very appealing to the right-wing billionaire. He made sense. If you water the garden it will grow.

Don’t Fall Into the Credit Card Trap

A lot of individuals get tempted by the credit advertisements and deals that are too good to be true. However, when you look at the long-term consequences, the low monthly payment offers will usually cost you a lot more money.

It is a good idea to learn about how much a credit card transaction would really cost before going through with the purchase. You can check for yourself here at About.com's credit and debt management calculator section. This section has a special “minimal payment credit card calculator” that can tell you:

Your total cost with minimum payments.
How many payments it will take to pay off the entire balance with minimum payments.
How different rates will affect the total costs.
Credit companies usually make huge profits by offering teaser rates and low minimum payments. It is one way of maintaining their income by keeping consumers in debt for 10, 20 or even 30 years. Instead of adding to their income, you might consider building a savings account by depositing what you would have spent on your minimal monthly credit card payments.

Credit cards can play an important role in our lives. They can provide emergency funds for a major car accident or another critical situation and allow you to recover quickly in a time of need. If you have to use credit, pay your bill in full each month. If you have to rely on making smaller payments try to pay at least $10 over the minimum payment and only charge items that you can truly afford. This can save you thousands of dollars in interest charges.

Credit card offers are hard to resist. It would be tough for most people to pass up an offer for a 56 inch plasma television worth $2500 for only $50 a month on a credit card. Even though many individuals can afford a $50 monthly payment, they may not realize that they will end up paying more in interest than for the original cost of the television.

It is a common mistake to let yourself get used to paying only the minimum amount that is due on your credit card bill. A small monthly payment may seem insignificant. However, the payment may not look so insignificant when you understand the true cost of credit cards and interest.

Take for example, let's say that you really did go out and buy a new plasma television for $2,500. You used a credit card that had an annual percentage rate (APR) of 18 percent. In addition, your minimum monthly payment may be as low as $50 like in the example mentioned above. However, in order to calculate your total long-term costs you will need to know how your minimum payment was determined.

A minimal payment is typically determined by using a percentage of your entire balance. The percentage amount is usually about 2 percent but can vary depending on the card. Keep in mind that the minimum payment goes towards the interest charge and to the original amount that you owed. In this case, the original amount was $2,500.

For the $2,500 plasma television, 2 percent of your original debt would be $50. With an APR of 18 percent, your payment would cover $38 in interest and $13 towards your $2500 liability. After the first payment, you would still owe $2487. The basic formula is:

Divide 18 percent by 360 days of the year which equals .05 percent.
Multiply .05 percent times 30 calendar days which is 1.5.
Finally, multiply 1.5 by the $2500 original balance which equals $37.50 ($38 rounded) in interest.
The True Cost of That Purchase

If you paid only 2 percent of your total balance due every month, it would take 334 months to pay off your debt. In other words, it would require 28 years to pay off a $2,500 liability. The television will probably have stopped working long before you have paid it off.

Even if you decided to pay for 28 years, you would also have paid $5897 in interest. Your true cost for the 56 inch plasma television would end up being $8397.

Letting Interest Work For You

However, image what you might have earned if you had put the $50 into a savings account for 28 years. Even at today's current low rates it would have been a substantial amount.

For instance, let's say you started a savings account or opened a CD with a 5 percent rate and deposited $50 every month for 28 years. Also, let's include what you would have paid in taxes with a tax rate of 25% on the income that generated.

Your total savings would have been $29,648. You would have earned $17,130 in interest income. Your total tax cost would have been $4,283. After taxes, you would have made an extra $12,847. You could have paid for the television in cash and had plenty of money left over.

"Really, Paul? Probably 4/5ths of my buyers borrow money . . .

But you really sidestepped the point: Norquist claimed that Reagan did it right, by borrowing and raising taxes. But he's gotten a couple of hundred GOPs in Congress to swear to do the opposite. How do you reconcile that?"

Good for you Mackie Boy.

4/5ths of my buyers pay cash. I did not sidestep the point.... my point was made that there are times to borrow money and there are times to pay down your debt.

The crash of 2008 was because of TOO MUCH DEBT.

PERIOD.

Taking out more debt when the problem is DEBT is NOT a solution. The Debt to GDP ratio under Reagan was FAR lower then it is today.

Today.... the Interest on the Debt (which is now Higher then the GDP) is growing Faster then the GDP.

This is called a DEBT SPIRAL.

Basically..... when you don't make enough to pay your bills ---- Taking out more debt to pay the bills solves nothing. Prolongs the inevitable but at the end of the day.....

YOU ARE BK.

Talk to a BK Attorney if you don't understand this.


Cheers!



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"The question is what will our country look like 10-20 years from now. we need to expand infrastructure sewers roads and bridges. not treat every working man like they are overpaid and greedy."

Spot on John,

Unfortunately the Trillions spent on housing programs and paying the banksters off because of overinflated mortgages in the first place under the Obama Administration means those trillions of dollars have not gone to improving the infrastructure of this country.

My background is in Finance. A key thing you learn when it comes to Managerial Finance is learning to evaluate the the best place to invest the money for the maximum return on investment. You are given multiple choices to invest your money..... Pick the best investment that's going to generate the highest return.

The trillions spent on the housing programs (and if you really understand them and Who they REALLY benefit) has been a complete waste of dollars when that money could have been spent investing in programs that would TRULY enhance the infrastructure of this country and benefit the majority...... Instead of the Minority and sinking the country into an even bigger debt hole.

Career Politicians, Community Organizers and Attorneys don't get it ..... they lack the education of putting the money where it matters for long term results and focus on making promises for votes.

I don't know ANYBODY that is against improving the infrastructure.... the debate is how much money was WASTED under this Administration that has resulted in the LOWEST Return On Investment in the past 60 years.

Really Now..... the Trillions spent has generated what???????

NOTHING.

Cheers!

"The NAR's magazine this week has an editorial by NAR economist L. Yun. He ends by saying, with credit tight, maybe tighter than it needs to be, we agents need to be saying, stay in school kids because droputs earn less than graduates. What's missing in that advice is, sellers, keep in mind buyers have lost buying power... net worth is down to $160,000 from $230,000 a few years ago. Lenders require more income in order to say yes to loan applications. If the only advice we can give is to stay in school, we look pretty unprofessional if we don't include the seller's advice to keep it real on prices."

Carl,

Six years ago there was NO WAY a kid straight out of College could afford to buy a home in my area. Today.... I can get a Cabbie that dropped out of high school Qualified to buy a home as long as they have had that job for two years.

L. Yun is COMPLETELY OVERPAID and his advice is pretty much worthless to me since he's been wrong about real estate since taking that position from the last loser that had that position.

Personally, the ONLY REASON why I pay REALTOR dues is because I HAVE TO.

It makes FAR MORE sense to go to a trade school then going to college to get a degree in Social Studies or Liberal Arts. FAR MORE sense to learn a productive trade then Political Science.

It's not about just going / staying in school --- it's about going to school to learn a trade that is productive in nature.

Credit is tight?

Sure.... compared to 6/7 years ago when all you needed to do is be able to sign loan documents to get a home loan..... WHICH ended up ARTIFICIALLY pumping up Home Values to Unsustainable levels and DEBTED everybody to death.

Nowadays in our area? Have a job... pay your bills on time and it's no problem getting a FHA loan and be able to buy a decent home since prices were allowed to fall where they should be.

Credit is Tight?

BEEEES.

Pay your bills on time and have a job.... my loan officer will get you a home loan and I'll get you a home.


Cheers!

The old story repeats itself losers stick together just like birds of a feather they flock together.
Just so that we are clear on the subject If we save GM why not K Mart, Sears. Best Buy,Delta Eastern Airlines, American Airlines and so on spread the equality right and square
come to think about it I thinkI rather save the people that went bankrupt on account of companies like GM.
Hey I am starting to think like a liberal you guys hate the rich but love the poor right? Than there is a contradiction right there when you are for saving the Banks, GM, WalStreet Goldman Sachs, Chrysler.
Why not save everyone that failed starting with the poor.

Jeez, I had no idea. I bought a Malibu in 2009, from a dealership owned and operated by women, the TriState's leading dealership, a well run business. No complaints from them or me. The best car in the world is a BMW. But it costs a lot more. My Malibu and the BMW are both cars. I think they will both do OK for different reasons. I like Heinekin beer but drink PBR. Same buzz on a summer evening. GM and the Volt.... some don't make it; Edsel, Gremlin, Hudson, Studebaker, Packard, DeSoto, Plymouth, Reo, Maxwell. I'm old you know. Mr. Good Wrench was my godfather.

Are you against GM in general or just the car? Did you want GM to fail for some reason?

Failure is perceived as the opposite to succeed. It has been the result and the conclusion to any business that opened and failed and it never received notoriety pity or public outcry and most definitely not singled out for a public bailout of taxpayers money in time of a recession.

Loosing businesses simply came and went. Opposite to veni, vidi , vici Businesses that came seen and conquered.
There were winners and losers in the Roman Forum. The winner that stayed alive and fought another day.
Or look to the example of a lame race horse horse who could not race again so they shot it. It is humane and they just put it out of it's misery.
We don't shoot losers Carl. Nor do we revive dead gladiators, horses,or business that died or failed
They go into Bankruptcy Court and if they have money left after paying their debt they go back in business and try it again.
What a corporation like GM committed year after year is not only example of failure but brought shame as it robbed the consumer with its production of it's shameless clunkers that cost not only lives lives but increased insurance premiums, not to mention producing gas guzzlers that needed their own oil wells.

GMt was kept alive because it was too big to fail. So what did it do on it's own ? Committed suicide and as you know as a good christian suicide is an inexcusable sin and they are not even permitted to hell but to remain in purgatory. GM instead went to hell and was forgiven by the powers to be and we the public went to hell and brought them back If you are confused Carl look at the human side look at the pensions the workers lost . Are you still so blind that all of a sudden the very people you pretend to care about had lost all their savings car dealers their livelihoods for cancelled contracts. Yet GM lives and the fat cats feeding off the workers the Unions are sucking and savoring public funds as they roll out just another magnificent product . If the Volt was a horse they would not shoo it they would bury it. For it was still born.

He's against Bob Lutz, the conservative at GM behind the Volt.

Gabe, you keep coming out against the Volt, the GM car not doing well right now. Are you against GM in general or just the car? Did you want GM to fail for some reason?
I commend to all, this thoughtful site. In the words of the great profit, "king george", why do they want to revolt?
http://Liberal-Insights.org

- Ran on a bit, but cons are just that, a con.

Yep.

It's easy to understand why the people who are holding four aces don't want a new deal. Everything's fine, and nothing needs to change. People who have sixteen billion dollars to put into Facebook stock at $38 aren't hurting, especially if it's other people's money they're playing with.

- not treat every working man like they are overpaid and greedy.

Amazing, isn't it. Teachers are greedy and part of a cartel that must be destroyed, but the frackers who create earthquakes and make drinking water flammable? Hey, it's just bizness.

The last succesful conservative movement was the prohibition. Bad idea, christianist leaders and victorian leftovers thinking all the social problems would go away if alcohol made illegal and would keep families together, stop drunkeness of unemployed husbands. that was the last time the extremists had power and abused it, that experiment went badly. The US govt ran on excise taxes and because of prohibition had to find a new income stream, called income taxes. Import duties and excise taxes covered big gubbermint military and limited govt role. So anyway, when was the last time any conservative iniative stood the test of time and was correct in hindsight? NEVER. conservatives were in the 1930's complaining about the gold standard going away, wrong on that front too. Tell me whenever conservatives were right on anything from letting the south suceed to isolationist policy regarding WW's to against interracial marriage, called GI bill welfare at the time it was introduced, called social security and medicare welfare when it was on the table, the list goes on and on. McCarthy era witch trials, Iran contra, savings and loan bailout for billy Bush, younger brother of george, deregulating financial markets and creating loopholes that encourage speculation and finacialiszation of business through leveraged buyouts. etc on and on. You guys are never right on nothing

- Mackie Boy,

Why don't you run out and take out all of the credit you can and let me know how that works out for your real estate business in this current economy.

Really, Paul? Probably 4/5ths of my buyers borrow money . . .

But you really sidestepped the point: Norquist claimed that Reagan did it right, by borrowing and raising taxes. But he's gotten a couple of hundred GOPs in Congress to swear to do the opposite. How do you reconcile that?

- and the big one is lack of faith in the current direction . . .

I know, the same people who were "risk takers" who deserved tax breaks under Bush are now the scaredy cats who won't come out unless the coast is clear from regulations and taxes. Trudeau did a great riff on that in last week's Doonesbury . . .

- Leaders are born from ordinary men for doing extraordinary things.

Uh huh.

In step with marketing ideas to increase traffic to open houses. I will have a Notary Public on location to those that have the desire to share their lives together and tie their knots in the sanctity of my Open House.
Our invitation includes an open bar and finger snacks. In addition we are featuring a list of vacant foreclosed homes to spend those precious moments of undisturbed tour with your loved one.
This week we are offering no points and no closing costs on all cash purchases from a large variety of choices presented by HARP.
Joe the plumber has volunteered free inspections for the lucky couples. For those that need mortgages please leave you contact numbers or e mails and my assistant will be contacting you.
See you this Sunday between 1-3 PM Heaven Can't Wait Country Club Drive Unit C.
Look for our green and white balloons and just stop in for a while you may find a home waiting just for you and your loved one. Make an offer and say yes and you will have both a marriage certificate and a Title to your new home.

Carl you are stuck on the word conservative like a car without snow tires in 10 inch of snow.
You just keep on spinning and spinning waisting a lot of gas . Now with gas at nearly four dollars a gallon I call that wasteful energy going nowhere. But thereI go again sounding like a typical conservative.

Carl this could be your shining example of an Ecstatic Liberal with hard evidence to all those dumb Republicans of what it means becoming a proud G.M. "GEVOLT" owner.
a demonstration of your appreciation of what your tax money contributed in revolutionizing the automobile industry . Just in case you run out of juice please call the 1800 You have Junk . Please remember all calls are recorded for your protection by the UAW. Our tow truck will be there momentarily. Please wave if you are a Liberal so that we don't confuse you for a Conservative we have a different schedule for them. We have them wait in line in our newly decorated Obama Care Center.

Gabe
Immediately take away socialized medicaire for seniors is the solution. Make 70 yr olds with heart conditions buy private insurance from Aetna or Cigna at whatever the actuaries say it should cost. I had a retired lady gleefully tell me that her hip replacement cost 48k and she was complaining about a $500 co-pay. whats good for the goose is good for the gander. carry your hatred for obama/romney care to its logical extreme. why should healthcare be a "right" when you magically turn 65? Of course my point is the hipocracy of old retired people feeling entitled to keep what they socialized medicine they got, and then say it is a priveledge to those under 65. While we're at it, stop the socialized insurance for VA and disbled vets, let them get a coupon or voucher for rehab. GOPers say healthcare is a priveledge unless you are old or in a federal job or military. then its a right.

said it before, half of every contemporary society thinks the current crisis is unsurmountable and how can we ever recover. More than half the civil war contemporaries didnt think the war with the south was worth fighting for the slaves freedom. That was conservatives at the time. States rights blah blah blah. They were absolutely wrong in hindsight. Those same people reflected fondly on the good old days, like when Lincoln was a boy raised in a one room cabin. Contemporaries always like the fifty years previous as better than the current realities. USA in 1810 was a totally frontier country and white people ran the show, no complexity of worrying about the indians and slaves. Same was true around WW1, half or more contemporaries of the time were aghast that countries would use poison gas and mechanized taks and trench warfare. How could we a country survive. Conservatives were railing against the hun menance. Conservatives used fear to get us behind that war. Again, 1920 american people revered the simpler times before cars and a refeverence for american indians and some remorse for our treatment of the indian nations. WW2 same thing but this time conservatives were against invading europe to take out Hitler. After WW1 they had no stomach for another bloody war and thought it a european problem only. Cons were wrong again. Viet Nam conservatives, yes some dems included thought it was winnable and we were there for the the longest war ever in our history, until afghanistan war. Conservatives War against women rights, ERA, worker rights to fair pay and hours, proverty, birth control, inter-racial marriage gay rights, wrong on all these issues.

The sanctity of marriage is 3,000 years old, really mittens? until 200 years ago there was no such thing as romantic marriage. women were traded by the father to gain land or property. in the good old days a man could beat his wife, if she had it coming with a stick no larger than the width of his thumb. Thats where the saying rule of thumb comes from. Until 1992 in some states a husband could rape his wife. A hundred years ago, women couldnt divorce their husbands or own property, or practice law or medicine.

Ran on a bit, but cons are just that, a con.
Conservatives are regressive

we live in the best of times in the history of the world. fraidy cat cons act like the sky is falling i.e. obama derangement syndrome. The question is what will our country look like 10-20 years from now. we need to expand infrastructure sewers roads and bridges. not treat every working man like they are overpaid and greedy. support single female head of households to work with daycare so they can work. de-emphasize the focus on the rich as benevolent when they dont create jobs demand creates jobs and workers making a living wage buy chit.

You would have preferred Clinton....
I would have preferred Clinton (Hillary) too, anyone but a conservative retro-head. I'm not enchanted with Obama either but give him the nod on a few helpful actions like saving GM and untold thousands of jobs and maybe an industry,, and getting Osama bin Laden. Getting the country together, with their tax cuts for the weathiest, continuation of wars for questionable reasons and some basically absurd social arguments like denial of contraception, women's rights, equality of marriage, builds to a crescendo of never-going-to-happen. It's not so much the man or woman as president as it is the crippling ideology at the service of a passion, namely the passion of those who already have or who strive to achieve some advantage over others, i.e. in terms of what its adherents are really intent on conserving (and/or acquiring in the future). And that is power, wealth, advantage and/or privilege, all of which are intertwined. Bain? A good name for what we will get with more conservatism in our lives, as in the bain (sic) of our existence. I hope Obama can show us some more liberalism, the generous way to go when times are tough for so many.
That should give you ammunition for a day or two. Fire away, Riddley.

Most Americans are finally a sensing a normalization to unemployment, housing, health care and even sense that the administration has made great strides even in reducing the cost of gas.
Looks like we are out of the woods and good times are just around the corner.
Why am I so hesitant to believe that ? With only six months to the most important election this country has faced since the civil war I am more concerned what will follow as the trademark to this present administration who has set a new direction even to the surprise of Democrats Independents not to mention to the contrast ideologies of Conservative Americans.

While we are so critical of his policies that brought us here after four years are we that curious where it will take us in the next four? I have said this before I would have preferred Clinton a known entity running this country rather than an unknown.

Well there is no longer an unknown and it sure is not a democrat or even a liberal transition in office what we have is total chaos in everything this administration touched. I blame no one especially Obama but ourselves for voting for an unknown but today we know better we know who Obama is.

The funniest thing is that Obama election commercial now dare asks what experience Romney brings to qualify him for a presidency ? I just want to turn that question around and ask what was his qualification?
Thank you I had the same opinion. NONE unless you have something agains a white business man who exemplifies success , a man with faith and family not positioned for controversy being from the radical right or a radical left just conservative enough on principles and liberal enough to compromise but an American who shares the need to change and bring the country really together. I choose the best choice we have over no choice.

Obama is not a true or pure socialist the proof is that he offers an antidote to everyone called Obama Care if the cure kills don't blame him blame Mother Nature.

Pure socialism is as good for you as an organic chicken soup. The problem is that it is difficult to find a true organic chicken nowadays without someone injecting those lousy chemicals or feed our chickens full with those artificial good for you vitamins. approved by the FDA.

All Natural health healing remedies recommend some type of detox diet. Mother Nature protects us from everyday exposure to toxins with our detoxification system. When our detoxification systems are working well, our body can handle our basic everyday exposure to toxins. Eat a healthy diet with adequate amounts of water and fiber, and your body will detox naturally.

The Obama detoxification process is not more complicated . It just needs to be flushed as any toxins from the system and soon the body matter will recover on all levels and will function naturally as it was meant to be. I do believe that God is a pure Socialist I would vote for him in a heartbeat . Unfortunately there are many that attempt to replicate Him but they just don't have the same ingredient so instead we have many phony socialist that profess to be pure but we know better they are way too toxic.

SENIOR CITIZENS
ARE THE NATION'S LEADING CARRIERS OF AIDS!



HEARING AIDS

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MOST OF ALL,

MONETARY AIDS TO THEIR KIDS!

> It's a slow afternoon in some little town.
>
> The sun is hot, the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and living on credit.
>
> On this particular day a rich tourist is driving through town. He stops at the motel and lays a $100 bill on the desk, saying he wants to inspect the rooms to pick one to spend the night.
>
> As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the owner grabs the bill and scoots next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
>
> The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer.
>
> The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill at the feed store.
>
> The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit.
>
> She in a flash rushes to the motel and pays off her room bill to the motel owner.
>
> The motel proprietor now places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.
>
> At that moment the the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the $100 bill, and leaves.
>
> NOW--no one produced anything, and no one earned anything. However, the whole town is out of debt and looking to the future with much optimism.
>
> And that, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely how the U.S. Government is conducting business toda

we can all be wealthy if we want to be hard enough


Oops well in your case Carl you did not want it hard enough now you are both soft and poor at seventy? ... . It takes more than thinking about money to be rich . It is harder when all you do is think about being rich but don't know how. Becoming rich is not as hard as becoming happy. Happiness comes hardly to those that wish it pray for it but like wealth one needs to work for it to earn it.

Something like a good marriage. Something like being faithful.
Hey that does not mean you need to be the same sex either but it sure solves the problem of baby sitters and day care centers.
This opens a new dialogue of choice. Rather be gay than married to the opposite sex. No one will want to be pregnant it is such a pain. Look what it does to your figure . There is lipo suction but why more pain? Children will become a commodity in the new world order much like gold and will be bought and traded on the stock market. and taxed like any investment.
The only difference they will loose value as they get older. Boy am I glad I won't have to deal with such decisions, I know it is hard to accept that I am older richer and happier and Obama had nothing to do with it. I give a lot of credit however to my wife who made it possible and at what cost? She had to have children the old fashioned way . Ouch..... It was my odd to joy a menage a trios :my wife, myself and a bit of help from God. The rest is just a miracle as only father can understand as the wife explains it and my grandchildren laugh about it as their mother my daughter listens to it over and over again. We gather now and than as a family by blowing the dust covers of those photo albums and paging though our life our true wealth as a family, that earned it ,spent it and remembers it.