Home Selling in New Jersey>Question Details

tlcvip, Home Seller in 07757

Why do most realtors have a problem with showing a house that is listed for sale by owner?

Asked by tlcvip, 07757 Mon Jul 14, 2008

and that the realtor will still recieve their 2.5 or 3.0% commision. I have found out through several sources that most realtors will black ball a home that is listed by owner or under another company that lists by owner. Why is that so when the home owner is paying for all of the advertising and the selling agent still make a commision? Is it that the agents are just getting too greedy in a slow market and should they just be thankful that they make a commision at all. After all the sellers have to reduce their prices and this also leaves room for additional negotiations.

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As an agent I would not "blackball" your home and would show it to my client if it met their criteria. When the market was booming I would have knocked on your door and asked for permission to show your home with a one-time show agreement to address commission. This is not 2006. The reality of 2008 is that buyers have a lot of choices and so do agents. Sometimes buyers welcome the opportunity to view a for-sale-by-owner, and sometimes they don't like it at all. Most of the time the seller (you) are there and the prospective buyer cannot take "ownership" of the property. By "ownership" I mean they are making the sounds and visualizing what their couch would look like in your living room. They are doing all the things I want to hear as an agent but I don't want you to hear or see as a seller. Don't forget I represent the buyer. Your questions do not make sense to me. How is it we are greedy if as you state you are offering 2.5 or 3% commission? Why should I be "thankful" to you? Your attitude is why I would be reluctant to show your home. Why would I want ot deal with you if I can take my buyer to another property represented by a professional realtor who knows how to do their job. I wouldn't have to deal with you at all!!! I wouldn't have to do double the work for half the commission. You won't know how to do your side of the transaction. I wouldn't have to deal with someone who didn't recognize that I am a professional and need to be treated as such. I'm not sorry to have vented on you!! Thank goodness I don't live in your area.

Carol Ann Pease
3 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Aug 2, 2008
Hi ttcvip:

I think it's a myth and probably from other FSBOs who are not getting the right exposure online.

The only thing that deterrs me from showing a house that fits my client's criteria and are listed by owner is when the owner put something like 'Agents, do not call - We will not deal with agents" or something to that effect.

Most FSBOs are not friendly to agents, and unfortunatly, they are usually not on the major Realtor websites and is out of our and public's radar. Otherwise, I have no qualms about showing the houses when I see there is a fit. So, that's probably something you want to think about when you are not getting showings.

Sylvia
3 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
Sylvia Barry,…, Real Estate Pro in Novato, CA
MVP'08
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I'm happy to show FSBO's. (twice the work, or not).

The problem I have with FSBO's, is that I often don't know anything about them. I don't routinely cruise the FSBO websites (FSBO.com...), and unless I happen to pass by the home, with a sign out front (For Sale) I'm probably not even aware that it's for sale.

If I see the sign, I probably still don't know any of the parameters. How many bedrooms... how many baths... is the kitchen updated, what about the baths... does it have a master bath... basement.... and of course the most important questions... how much is it, and will they cooperate with agents?

I'm hesitant to call the FSBO seller to "preview" the property, because when I do, they're so suspicious that the only reason I'm calling or want to come over is to "pitch" my services to them that they're downright angry.

Many FSBOs don't list with the flat fee agencies that "plop" them on the MLS which would alert me to the home. Sometimes, they'll print up a flyer and deliver it around town to the local offices... (a good step). But if they don't find some way to notify agents of their presence and their stats...

They're adrift in a sea of homes, with no radar, no lights, no navigational system, and no engines.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Sep 25, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in 60201
MVP'08
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MOST Realtors do not have a problem showing a FSBO, presuming that they're offering a reasonable co-op commission to the buyer's agency. SOME Realtors do, and when pressed, they often complain that they have to do double the work, for no additional compensation.

While there is extra work to be done, in my opinion, it's nowhere near "doubled". Yes, it might be double the "keeping the clients (both of them) on track, but you're being paid your percentage for the entire buyer side of your activity (all the showings, the phone calls, the e-mails ... etc... for the last 6 months you've been showing... )... you're not doubling those efforts. You're in effect baby-sitting the seller, through the negotiations, inspection, and up and through closing. Yes, more work, but not double.

We, Realtors, all know listing agents, who once the deal has been struck, disappear into the ozone, never to be heard from or seen again until the day of closing (and sometimes not even then)... and we end up doing all the work for both sides of the transaction... This is no different, except the FSBO owners are often grateful for your assistance... yes, you have to walk a fine line, and make sure they understand that you do NOT represent them... and cannot give them advice that would give the seller an edge over your buyer.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in 60201
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I show the homes of Unrepresented Sellers but, I know a lor od agents that try to avoid doing so. Think about it, when another professional has the other side of a transaction it tends to go very smoothly. When a homeowner, with limited experience in doing these transactions AND a emotional interest in the transaction is managing one side, without representation, things can be far mnore difficult. Even working a transaction with a less than great agent, a new agent, a part timer, or someoen who is just not that good can be difficult enough. At least in htose situations, you have a Broker to go to if the agent presents a problem. With an Unrepresented Seller, there is no higher court to turn to.

In a busy markete, the laws of supply and demand kick in and agents must show those properties because they have nothing else to show. In a slow market, there is a selection of homes to show so, agents have the ability to "pass" and show something else. Particularly if, as you say, your commission is 2.5%.

If you want to change that a bit, you might try offering a higher commission. Working with you will be more work for the Selling Agent, why not try to entice them with $$$?

I hope this helps,

Andy
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
I have sold many homes offered as FSBO. I have no problem with it and will show them as well.

What I do is call the home owner first and let them know I am an agent. 99% of the time they will work with agents. I then ask to preview the home to see if it will fit my clients needs and if it does I schedule a showing for my client. Simple as that. If the home doesn't fit my clients needs, then we don't bother the FSBO with a showing.

The only time I don't show a FSBO is if the owner does not want an agent in the picture, then it is up to my clients. They can still see it and I can still help them with the paperwork. The buyer then just has to pay the commission. I have gone this route and it has worked out just fine. The only problem was that the seller was still mad that they used an agent, even when they paid the commission. He did not like that I advised them to get a home inspection. It was a 100 year old home. Of course I advised them to have the home inspected.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Sep 21, 2008
ticvip

If you are doing a FSBO, you might have interest in the thread attached to the link below. It will be more coherent if you start from the first post at the bottom.

http://www.trulia.com/voices/answer/Home_Selling/How_do_you_…

Also, I did not read all the posts on this thread, however I still doubt if the following aspect has been covered.

Just say you are an agent and in this market most agents could be having a tough time. You show a FSBO home to a client. It is priced with comps and is the typical house within a subdivision. The client buys. However, there were ten other homes for sale in that sudivision represented by colleagues having a tough time. How would you feel when you ran into a few of those colleagues later. I don't know how agents normally feel in this situation, but if it were me, I would have some sort of guilty conscience. I would possibly feel like a union guy who crossed a picket line. Hey, but that's just me. Furthermore, If I were one of those other agents, I might think twice about showing your listings. Particularly since there is so much to choose fom now. I know I probably will get slapped around a little by agents stating they are professionals and not that petty. It could be food for thought though.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Aug 2, 2008
There are a few reasons why I have never shown a FSBO.
I've never been inside the house.
I don't know what, if anything, the seller is willing to pay.
I don't know the price.
If I know the price, it's usually too high.
And.......because of the reception I usually get when I speak to a FSBO.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jul 23, 2008
I don't work with FSBO's, if at all possible, not because I am greedy but because it's the largest headache you can imagine. Let me give you some examples, trust me, it's not limited to what I am about to go over.

1. The homeowner doesn't abide by discrimination guidelines and ask question he shouldn't. I have to remind him of the law and advise him any discriminatory practices will be reported.
2. Can't complete the necessary paperwork. In fact, the homeowners typically ask for help from me when I am representing the buyer, what's with that? I REPRESENT THE BUYER!
3. Lack of cooperation, they don't think they have to do things in the time frames set forth in the agreement
4. They can't take the emotion out and when tough things need to be discussed the huff and puff and go cry about it. Then they act like it's my fault and no longer want to do business with my client.

In other words, I can't stand working with FSBO's, it's horrible, I have never had a "good" one. Just some more reasons why, ONLY 10% OF FSBO'S ARE SUCCESSFUL!
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
We had a FSBO drop off a brochure at our office the other day. TO me, this is like if I'm trying to sell my car, and I don't like what the salesman told me I could get for a trade in, so I ask the dealership to post a photo of my used car in their dealership. It's a little weird.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed, it's a bit weird.... but we will post their FSBO sign in the back room (we won't put it in the front window), so that all the Realtors in the office can familiarize themselves with the listing. (or non-listing).

Again, it may be just the right house to suit one of our clients. Why wouldn't we want to be educated about it? This FSBO person lives in our community, too. And it's the community that we serve. Yes, they're trying to sell their home without using a Realtor... they have the right to do so... and I suppose, if we wanted, we'd have the right to say "We won't accept FSBO brochures in the office"... but don't you think we'd be shooting ourselves in both feet by doing so?

We'd be closing our eyes to a potential "match" for one of our clients... and upsetting a member of the community, and all of the friends they know.. by refusing their flyer. Sorry... just not good business.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Sep 26, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in 60201
MVP'08
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When I gave my answer to this quite some time ago I used the phrase "...if your premise is correct.."
Later (not so long ago) Will Nesbitt said he didn't think the premise was correct. Since this question (by tlcvip) has generated so many responses I want to revisit the 'premise' issue.

For now lets revise the qualifier from 'most Realtors" to "some Realtors."

I think it is true that some Realtors do have a problem showing FSBOs. Why is that? I think for the majority of those who have a problem it has nothing to do with compensation, representation, or any of the other issues mentioned. It is , I think, simply fear. The first time I approached a FSBO on behalf of a buyer was in the mid 90s. I was hesitant to do it as I had no real guidance, it was outside familiar terriority and it made me nervous. I don't let much stop me from trying some new approach and that was no different - for me. But most people need to be trained rather than learn on their own as they go. Most agents are trained to go after a FSBO for a listing - not on behalf of a buyer.

So, the problem they have with it is they don't know how to go about it and they expect that the owner will be antagonistic because he/she IS a FSBO. They fear the unknown and not having another realtor on the other side is the unknown to the vast majority of Realtors.

It doesn't matter if it is 'most' or 'some' that have a problem showing FSBOs. There are (were) over 2 million Realtors. I tend to think 'most' have a problem with it because they are not very well trained or experienced and they fear getting off the beaten track. They are not black balling anyone. They are not well enough organized to do that and it wouldn't benefit them anyway.

As I said in my first response - that leaves more business for me.


Paul Howard, Broker/Owner
NJHomeBuyer.com Realty
Cherry Hill NJ 08002
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Sep 25, 2008
I will be happy to show a FSBO if it meets my client's criteria. It is hard though, because there usually is no virtual tour or multiple photos to e-mail my clients ahead of time. There are many homes for sale on the market today, and most FSBOs seem to be priced higher than the ones listed with a Realtor. FSBOs are harder to show typically, because there usually is no lock box.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jul 23, 2008
I think the theme of all the answers is not as much that Realtors "black ball" or have a grudge against privately sold properties, but moreso that there's a certain level of unknown credibility and of course price/exposure.

Realtors have several properties they have to show clients via the multiple listing service with convenience of virtual tours and media photos without the client spending time leaving the house. Many private sellers post on FSBO sites and are limited on the media templates they can post. Unforunately, the ease of showing a property is crucial with gas prices and everyone's busy schedules- so in addition to a property becoming of interest due to the virtual media access, the price will then play a significant role. I would suggest being more creative than most private sellers by spending the additonal money for marketing and hosting several open houses where you "invite" local realtors (simulating what realtors have: broker open houses in addition to public open houses). Otherwise you may have more luck negotiating down a commission with a realtor to do all the work for you, especially if you don't have "enough showings" after trying to sell privately for 90 days or so.

A Realtor also knows some seller incentives they may offer potential buyers - allowing you to keep your home competitvely priced, but opening your buyer pool.

Christine Markow
ERA Statewide Realty
christine.markow@era.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jul 23, 2008
TLCVIP,

I have no problem showing FSBO's. Have done so and will continue to use that inventory source.
However, it's a source of low priority, especially since inventory is high of listed properties. A listed property here has
1.) a completed sellers disclosure many FSBO's do not
2.) a contract to pay a set commission
3.) are ones that an agent does not need to hunt down to find or coordnate showings based upon the convenience of the owner....it needs to be at the convenence of the buyer in a buyers market.
4.) are represented by a professional listing agent who is the "emotion filter"
5.) are represented by someone who shares the paperwork load and knows the process and procedure and adheres to it
6.) a representative (agent) with a fiduciary responsibility to the seller
7.) checks and balances and under the strick code of ethics
8.) have a far far better chance of being in a condition worthy of showing because a listing agent has discussed what to do and what not to do. Most of the FSBO homes I've showed have not been in "showing condition", the owners follow the customer and me around like our shadow which should not be done and shorten the actual time in home and is counter productive.
9.) FSBO home owners tend to not have a grasp of the anti-discrimination laws and I've had more than one that have stated things that made me cringe in front of a prospective buyer.

The FSBO deals that I have done are twice the work, twice the errors and ommissions exposure, tend to be over priced, feel that they understand the industry and have no idea as to the legal aspects of a transaction and rarely have gone to closure.

Your term "greed" is not what it's about. It's about items 1-9 above.

My advice, hire a professional agent. The median price difference between a FSBO and a full service broker selling price is 15% LESS for a FSBO. This more than pays for the added fees.
Web Reference: http://www.waynefsmith.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jul 23, 2008
I don't think agents would have a problem showing your home. If you have put together a marketing plan for your property, does it include outreach to Realtors? That should be a key segment of any FSBO marketing plan. Through that outreach you can explain you willingness to pay a commission at closing to the buyers agent, have photos and general info.

You're now the selling agent, you need agent to agent marketing!

Good luck!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
most agents do not show FSBO properties because they do not know about them. Regardless of what commissions you will pay, property searches start on MLS. If your not listed, most agents dont know about you
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
Keith hit it on the head. Like other agents I am happy to show your home if it is priced right for its location and condition and fits the needs of my clients. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT TELL ME THE PRICE IS HIGHER THOUGH WHEN I BRING THESE CLIENTS. If you were listed, the field is level, too many unscrupulous sellers (and buyers) use the fsbo status to ecourage agents to cooperate then attempt to cut us out by dealing directly.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
1) Your first line says it all "a 2.5% or 3% commission" - How does the broker know that you will actually pay what you have "agreed" to.

2) I have never black-balled a FSBO and never heard of it happening in the last 7 years of my personal experience.

3) Agents are not paid to advertise your home, clearly you misunderstand the role of an agent, it is to protect interests, follow housing laws, negotiate and get the property closed, among several other things: coordinating showings, pre-approving buyers, doing the walk-throughs, pricing the home right - please if agents only got paid for advertising, you would not pay a commission, you would pay a fee. Commission is based on a successful sale, not running ads. It just so happens that agents/brokers will spend $1,000's of dollars marketing a home that they may never sell, with no recourse for the lost funds.

4) too greedy in a slow market, LOL - oh man that is rich. It is the hardest time to sell homes now, agents price homes properly and are working their hardest when the market is tough. Perhaps your home is just overpriced? Why work on selling a home that has HUGE risk for the agent and is likely overpriced?

5) Sellers reduce price, agents lose commission too - you may want to do some research into the average price of a home sold by a broker, and the average sold by FSBO.

6) People buy things "buy owner" to save money - they see you as a deal... They expect even more taken off your house because you AREN'T paying a commission, so the buyers want you to be priced even LESS than a home listed in the MLS - substantially less.

Best of luck!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
O.K. I have to say that although I am willing to show FSBO properties, I have never actually been in contract with FSBOs. I have heard what Jesse said from other agents' experience and the liability is much greater but never had first hand experience.

So, I defer to Jesse on his personal experience with FSBOs.

Sylvia
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
Sylvia Barry,…, Real Estate Pro in Novato, CA
MVP'08
Contact
Hi Tlc,

Your "sources" are not reliable. Most, in fact, all, agents I know will happily show and sell a friendly FSBO who is offering a 2.5%-3% commission if the house is a good fit for the buyer.

-Marc
Web Reference: http://www.marcpaolella.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
When working with a "FSBO" listed on the MLS with a flat fee agency that charges to list your home and that is it.. the amount of work doubles. Most FSBO's (like yourself ) have no idea what a Realtor does in a transaction, it is obvious by your comments.

I have heard some people say... ugh, listed with a flat fee... forget it, it is not worth the hassle.
It is not a matter of greed. It is the double aggrevation of the transaction from the buyer and you, the seller.

Although this is not MY particular way of doing business, I work with everyone and get the transaction done.

Good luck.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
I agree with my colleagues. I have shown FSBOs, but some sellers discourage agents from showing their houses, and those that will allow it end up expecting the agent to do all the work for 1/2 the commission. I will service my buyers, of course, but I should not be expected to advise the sellers of their obligations -- their lawyer can do that, and charge them more for it. When Foxtons was still in business, we ran into this all the time, and it was VERY frustrating.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
It is extremely difficult to work with sellers who dont know the laws for the State in order sale the property, we work 200% off a FSOB than a listing working in concert with another agent. FSOB are usually over priced for the area... THOSE are only a few issues that involved I could probably list 200 or more. http://www.lynn911.com http://www.homes-for-sale-dallas.com
Web Reference: http://www.lynn911.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jul 14, 2008
Good question. It is a small community. People talk. There is pressure to maintain the status quo and FSBO threatens the power base. Imagine what would happen if owners had access to the MLS, to the realtor forms they so closely guard, and signs started going up all over?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Apr 15, 2015
J.R. - Perhaps the individual in you neighborhood does not want to offend any one Realtor by choosing one over the other.
~~~~~~~~~~
Actually that FSBO has chosen a realtor since I posted, and is till overpriced, argumentative and unsold. In fact, I use them as an example of how NOT to do it in my listing presentations.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jun 25, 2009
I hope my colleagues will forgive me for my bluntness, but the answer is that sometimes we are just plain stupid.

It is about beating our chests and having our name or sign in front of someone's property.

I pursue for-sale-by-owner opportunities and offer the owner the services of my website (which is being rebuilt as I write) and other online resources that are already paid for anyway, and give adequate exposure to make both the seller and me happy. On occasion I have done open houses for FSBO's and yes I have sold a few. Many that I did not sell listed with me and sold through cooperation.

Right now I am dealing with four such properties, two residential and two commercial that will be loaded on my website once I have the Open Listing Agreement signed.

I cannot bank recognition, so I will accept your offer of an open listing agreement. Also, others have cited the peril of being omitted after procuring the buyer. I have no problems with this, as when this happens I will be glad to ask for my compensation - even if it is through my broker's attorney or Superior Court. That's the rare occasion, but it happens.

The only thing I make sure you understand is that I am not your agent. I am more than likely going to be the buyer's agent. That means you have to make sure you tell me nothing that would give the advantage to a buyer client, because I MUST tell them anything that will give them that upper hand.

Too many of my colleagues forget that we are servants. We are licensed and certified to serve our neighbors' real estate related needs. We forget that it is not about us, but about the consumer. Now summa yuse is pretty awful. Those (not so) rare exceptions notwithstanding, our role is to serve and not be served. This is what an agent does.

Anyway, it would probably not surprise you that I am working on a book with this very theme.

One other problem is that without written authorization, we cannot call you if you are on the Do Not Call List. The federal government likes making examples of us at $11,000 a pop. The only exception is when a buyer specifically asks to see the property, which I have accommodated and made deals. Hey, I am a problem solver, and I love it when a seller and buyer have accomplished their goals with my assistance.

I gotta stop or I'll write the book here.

Godspeed.
Web Reference: http://www.leondevose.com
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jun 25, 2009
I know this thread is old but here goes......................
tlcvip's verbage could have been written with more grace. but, perhaps their experience has been with a bad apple agent who gave this impression. Realtor/ Realtor relationships are tricky as well. The bottom line is time is money = who will pay the higher commission. Now if the Buyers find a FSBO's home and wants to see the home, then the agent has to decide whats next.? Let their client go or contact the seller. This is why advertizing is important to a FSBO as it is to a Listing AGent.
J.R. - Perhaps the individual in you neighborhood does not want to offend any one Realtor by choosing one over the other.

TO: Paul, Allen,J.R.
Would this document make you guys happy?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
YOUR PIC, name & firm

Agreement to bring Buyer to Non Listed Property

In the event the property located at _________________________________________
is purchased by a prospective buyer brought to the property by YOUR NAME a member of YOUR Real Estate Firm, the Seller agrees to pay a Real Estate Commission in the amount of 3 % ( my choice) of the total selling price to YOUR NAME Residential Sales Associate Realtor.



This is a legally binding contract.



Seller _______________________________________________________________________



Seller _______________________________________________________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
YOUR NAME
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Jan 18, 2009
No. Agents are committed to sell whatever the prospective buyer's want. Listing Agents are to gather enough information on the property and share with the buyer's agent to help the buyers make an informed decision on thier purchase. People who have their property listed have made a committment to agents, FSOB employees 1 selling their house, having it listed employees thousands. You can't have the cake and eat it too. A better question, are you too greedy as not to want to pay a commission? Perhaps your attitude has more to do with your being black balled than your house.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Sep 26, 2008
JR, Does that mean you let buyers come in and take the info from the FSBO sheets then go out and deal directly with the FSBO seller. If not, where is the analogy? If it is, that IS a weird way to do business.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, my point was, I'm not going to bring someone to a FSBO who has a FSBO sign in front of their house, and then have them do an end run around me. I've head buyers approach my listings and ask if they'll do something "without the realtor", so we know that thought, of cutting us out, exists.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Sep 26, 2008
"We had a FSBO drop off a flyer at our office the other day. TO me, this is like if I'm trying to sell my car, and I don't like what the salesman told me I could get for a trade in, so I ask the dealership to post a photo of my used car in their dealership. It's a little weird."

JR, Does that mean you let buyers come in and take the info from the FSBO sheets then go out and deal directly with the FSBO seller. If not, where is the analogy? If it is, that IS a weird way to do business.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Sep 25, 2008
Sometimes, they'll print up a flyer and deliver it around town to the local offices... (a good step).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We had a FSBO drop off a flyer at our office the other day. TO me, this is like if I'm trying to sell my car, and I don't like what the salesman told me I could get for a trade in, so I ask the dealership to post a photo of my used car in their dealership. It's a little weird.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Sep 25, 2008
"I'm happy to show FSBO's. (twice the work, or not)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ELV!S
You obviously put your clients first, and must be willing to go that extra mile for them. When agents state that they don't show FSBO's because it's twice the work for half the money, it seems very plain who they put first.


"As I said in my first response - that leaves more business for me."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul
I have been advised by an agent that in talking with some FSBO's, as an effort to to aid them, he gave the web address of my FSBO info. After reading that, they had second thoughts realizing how unprepared they really were, and the work they really needed to do. The agent ended up getting their listing. I wish you continued success with your FSBO dealings.




http://www.trulia.com/blog/rockinblu/2008/08/thinking_about_…
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Sep 25, 2008
J R

Thanks for the good wishes. It was a safe trip. About FSBO's being overpriced. Why should they be any different? :-) Seriously though, there are probably enough reasons for Realtors to be reluctant to deal with FSBO's, or as one Realtor put it "their on my bottom tier" without throwing in "twice the work for half the money" or something like that. To me, it just sounds bad, and like the agent is a cherry picker or something. I wish they would leave lines like that alone. I am sure I am not the only one that thinks statements like that put agents in a bad light.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Sep 24, 2008
Rock: ybe not so greedy in a direct monetary way, but in an unwillingness in allowing FSBO's in on the action by ignoring them when in fact some of their houses could be a perfect fit for some of the agents' clients.

JR: Rockinblue, 99% of FSBOs are overpriced. When is an overpriced house a perfect fit?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J R: " I'll show a FSBO, but only if I'm going to pass it on the way to show another house, or someone specifically asks me about it."

Rock: Na Na NaNa Na

JR: It's part of knowing the inventory. I make a point of knowing the prices of the houses we pass.

Rock: Good night. Going back to Austin in the A.M. Don't be talking about me while I'm on the road.

JR; Too late! Have a safe trip!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Sep 24, 2008
J R

Maybe not so greedy in a direct monetary way, but in an unwillingness in allowing FSBO's in on the action by ignoring them when in fact some of their houses could be a perfect fit for some of the agents' clients. You really can' t compare professionals providing a service for individuals such as RE agents to a situation where tangible items are exchanged between parties. People pay for Realtors' quality and expertise. In that should be a willingness to show homes that are FSBO if they are a fit.. The OP's post was referring to 2.5 or 3.0% commissions which seems to me to be a normal rate. I will repeat that when agents basically post that it isn't worth their time and trouble to show them, it reflects poorly on them. However given that ethic, a FSBO would probably be better off not dealing with that type of agent anyway. There were just as many others who posted in a more professional manner on this thread alone that will. BTW, you're not so tough. I saw where you admitted on another thread to showing FSBO's on request. :-)

J R: " I'll show a FSBO, but only if I'm going to pass it on the way to show another house, or someone specifically asks me about it."

Na Na NaNa Na

Good night. Going back to Austin in the A.M. Don't be talking about me while I'm on the road.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Sep 23, 2008
J R

As I have posted before, I can better understand and appreciate your position on FSBO's given your personal experience with one as a buyer. A little bit of "personalizing" of your own. :-) However, for a Realtor to essentially say or post that one of the reasons they don't show FSBO's is that they are not worth the time and trouble does nothing to promote a better appreciation of agents. IMHO it just further enhances the general perception by some that agents are lazy, greedy, and do not have their client's best interest at heart. I in no way feel that way, and no where will you find on any post here or on Zillow that I have posted anything to that effect. My post that basically goes after the post made by Catherine (" the commission usually only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact I would be doing double the work") was meant to be constructive criticism. To me, not being a professional, it just sounds like she would pass on a home even though it might be a perfect fit for a client because to her it is not worth her time and trouble. I just think Realtors should think about things they post if they want a better perception from the general public, but I will compliment her on her honesty. I guess I should have posted then how it sounded to me, instead of asking for clarification on "double the work for half the commission."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Although my FSBO buying experience is personalized, as is my short stint as a FSBO myself (10 calls from buyers who all had very creative ways to buy and finance my house, usually with me hold the bag, er mortgage), however my FSBO experience as an agent involves many many contacts myself not only with sellers who've gone FSBO but with buyers of FSBOs. It isn't pretty. :)

As for sounding greedy, I don't know why expecting to be paid sounds greedy. Before I was a real estate agent I worked in publishing, and if a potential client only wanted to pay me, say $2 a page, and I usually got $6 a page, was I greedy for turning the down? It's the same thing here, I expect to be paid for my time, at the fee I charge. If the client (employer) doesn't want to pay my full fee, I find a different client.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Sep 23, 2008
J R

As I have posted before, I can better understand and appreciate your position on FSBO's given your personal experience with one as a buyer. A little bit of "personalizing" of your own. :-) However, for a Realtor to essentially say or post that one of the reasons they don't show FSBO's is that they are not worth the time and trouble does nothing to promote a better appreciation of agents. IMHO it just further enhances the general perception by some that agents are lazy, greedy, and do not have their client's best interest at heart. I in no way feel that way, and no where will you find on any post here or on Zillow that I have posted anything to that effect. My post that basically goes after the post made by Catherine (" the commission usually only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact I would be doing double the work") was meant to be constructive criticism. To me, not being a professional, it just sounds like she would pass on a home even though it might be a perfect fit for a client because to her it is not worth her time and trouble. I just think Realtors should think about things they post if they want a better perception from the general public, but I will compliment her on her honesty. I guess I should have posted then how it sounded to me, instead of asking for clarification on "double the work for half the commission."
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Rock: J R
Undoubtedly, you are correct on me personalizing it. It's hard not to.
My double the commission comes from what I have read in Realtor's posts that state in dealing with FSBO's the commission "only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact I would be doing double the work" which to me implies that the agent thinks the commission should be doubled.

JR: In the past, when approaching FSBOs, agents would ask for one shot showings and a 6% agreement. With buyer agency, MOST agents now go in asking for 3%. Perhaps some agents were equating doing twice the work with twice the pay, I’m not sure if what they meant was they wanted 6%, but I couldn’t be wrong. As Elv!s said, obviously a listing agent does a lot of the work when they have a listing BEFORE there is an agreement. What I think is when Realtors say they are doing twice the work they mean twice the work AFTER an agreement is reached.

Rock: As far as me being "a very nice, polite, and fairly knowledgable poster," thank you very much. However, polite I will take, but with the "fairly knowledgable" part we should put the emphasis on the "fairly." I am just feeling my way around with just some common sense. You also should know you are one of my favorite Realtors on this board with your stance on not promoting yourself.

JR: Thank you. ☺
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
"You personalize every situation to your own FSBO situation, and it isn’t like that."
" I am not sure where your “double the commission for the efforts” statement comes from."
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J R
Undoubtedly, you are correct on me personalizing it. It's hard not to.
My double the commission comes from what I have read in Realtor's posts that state in dealing with FSBO's the commission "only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact I would be doing double the work" which to me implies that the agent thinks the commission should be doubled.
As far as me being "a very nice, polite, and fairly knowledgable poster," thank you very much. However, polite I will take, but with the "fairly knowledgable" part we should put the emphasis on the "fairly." I am just feeling my way around with just some common sense. You also should know you are one of my favorite Realtors on this board with your stance on not promoting yourself.

ELV!S has more much more efficiently and eloquently stated what I was attempting to convey in my clumsy posts. I'm sure by now his experience and creditability isn't of question. He is another Realtor who doesn't use this board for self promotion.

Yeah, I'm trying to hide behind him now. LOL
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Oh, now I get it ...

It's a trick question.

To answer the question is to agree with the premise of the question---which I as I already stated do not agree with.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
J R

You got me. That should have been:

As a buyer agent, you don't negotiate for the seller.

We all have opinions and mine was stated in my previous post. Catherine's answer, as she stated, could have been clearer. It was just very confusing for me for her to state a number of things that seller's agent does that included things that in no way were reflective of an answer to my original question. BTW, thanks for calling my attention to my error during my confusion and giving me a chance to correct it.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
As someone who is currently selling and looking to buy, I'd like to give my perspective.

I am using a realtor, but can understand the desire to go FSBO. Unlike some realtors, I don't think all people go FSBO out of greed. Some people are just need to get their sale price down. That 3% tlcvip wants to save could be the difference between breaking even or facing the prospect of a short sale.

On the other hand, I look at the new FSBO listings on a regular basis. Most of them are overpriced - about 10 - 20%. A few are even more pie-in-the-sky. However, the ones that are priced well are selling at a decent pace in Spokane.

Some people go FSBO because they had a very negative experience when using a realtor. Some have had agents that were greedy & unethical; some have had agents who were simply mediocre (which can actually be worse in some cases.) These agent experiences probably cost them a lot of money. From their perspective, they paid thousands to someone who screwed them over on the most important financial transaction of their lives.

I have to disagree with a previous poster who complained about the availability of showings and how sellers need to be at beck & call of buyers in this market. It has been my experience that buyers who respect our notice time are the only ones who are serious and in a position to buy.

I've relaxed our notice time on a number of occasions, only to find out later that our home was $100,000 above their price range. Or that the "buyers" were just visiting family and were merely curious about what their money could buy in Spokane. Or that they wanted new construction (our home is clearly a 1930s bungalow.)

I know selling agents need to foster & stoke their relationships with their clients, where is the filter? As an FSBO, you get to screen potential clients. My children are older, but this can be a real blessing for people with very young children.

Even in a buyer's market, agents need to be courteous to sellers about availability - especially towards stay-at-home parents.

In short, some FSBOs go that way because they are greedy or are trying to hide something. However, I think there is a significant number who had bad experiences with agents.

To tlcvip: Are you listed on MLS?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Will
This thread is not at all about me or my circumstance. I sold as a FSBO back in March. The transaction couldn't have went easier or smoother. My attorney's fee was $500. This is ticvip's thread and it was stated as an answer to it that one of the reasons Realtors don't show FSBO homes was because the commission usually only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact they would be doing double the work. To me, a statement like this is a knock at the efforts of a sellers agent's or FSBO's marketing as though it was worth nothing and a buyer agent deserves double the commission for their efforts in solely doing a transaction with an unrepresented seller. Catherine is certainly not the only one with this view. I have been reading this from Realtors' posts for over a year. I just feel it is a bogus overstated excuse. Having to deal around a homeowner's emotions about his and/or her home, and possibly a couple of other minor things is not worth FSBO's paying another 2.5% to 3%. It should be all in a day's work for an experienced professional agent. If it really seems like too much work for some agents, maybe they are in the wrong business.
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Rockinblue, you’re a very nice, polite, and fairly knowledgable poster, but you are making the mistake of thinking that your experience selling FSBO is typical. It isn’t. It’s a great thing that yours did, but even my own purchase of a FSBO before I was an agent was stressful in the least, and cost me a lot of money in the worst.

Realtors MAY not show FSBO homes for various reasons, one of which is the commission issue. Would you go to work at a new job without speaking to the boss about wht your salary would be? Would you go to a job that had a sign out front “will not pay you for your work”? (There are FSBOs who put “no agents” on their signs).

This is no “knock” at the efforts of a seller’s (listing, I assume you mean) agent. This is a statement of fact, that selling a FSBO USUALLY involves more work, and more aggravation, than selling a listed home. I am not sure where your “double the commission for the efforts” statement comes from. Nowadays a buyer’s agent will accept a fee of less than 6% for a FSBO. You may feel our explanations are “bogus” excuses, but your statement “Having to deal around a homeowner's emotions about his and/or her home, and possibly a couple of other minor things” shows someone who works in this field every day that you really don’t know what the job entails. You personalize every situation to your own FSBO situation, and it isn’t like that. There is no “all in a day’s work” for an agent. No matter how long an agent works, there is always a sale where something comes up that they have never dealt with before, or that has never come up previously.

So the next time you read a Realtor’s response, please try not to color every answer with your own easy experience. As I said, some are easy, the majority are not. As an agent who has spoken to MANY MANY people who have bought and sold FSBOs and BEEN FSBOs, I think I speak from more than one person’s experience.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Rock: Catherine

The question was "What exactly does a buyer agent do above and beyond his/her usual duties when dealing with a FSBO?" Not what a seller's agent does.

JR: The reason Catherine explained what a seller’s agent does, is because, except for the marketing of the home, the agent who brings the buyer, whether they are a buyer’s agent or the selling agent (two different terms there) the agent on the selling side will be doing the work of TWO agents from the offer on forward.

Rock: As a buyer agent, you don't negotiate for the buyer.

JR: Can you clarify that? As a buyer agent you do negotiate for the buyer. That is why they have a buyer agent. Are you saying “ as the SELLING agent, you don’t negotiate for the buyer”?

Rock: A FSBO's lawyer makes certain that buyer has submitted the proper paper work for the transaction to begin.

JR: And that is the end of their work for that phase. They will sit back and wait to hear from the buying side. They will stay on top of the sale. They will make one phone call informing the buyer’s attorney that the contracts are ready, and will not do anything to follow up. This is my experience with every transaction I’ve done.


Rock: A title and escrow company can handle the second deposit.
The seller can be there there for inspections and negotiate any and all possibles issues.

JR: Unemotionally I’m sure.

Rock: The seller and his/her attorney can make certain that all the contingencies in the contract are being met and at a timely fashion.

JR: Uh huh.

Rock: "A sellers agent meets the appraiser at the home, providing them with comps." I truly think the appraiser will use his own comps, and still this is not something the buyer agent does.

JR: No, that is something the listing agent does, though. The appraiser may be from out of the area and use the wrong comps. This does happen. But correct, the buyer’s agent will not do that.

Rock: "A sellers agent gets the sellers home prepared for the CCO and applies for such." I am sorry, but I am not familiar with a CCO. Perhaps you meant COO. Any issues jeopardizing this should be found and addressed with the results from the inspection. The rest should be fairly routine.

JR: You’d think, wouldn’t you? I can assure you there are all kinds of scenarios that may have to be negotiated without cos. One of my clients lost a deal with a “buyer” because when asked for a c.o. for an addition, they said no, they’d rip it off before they got a c.o., tough, and by the way the price is still the same. When I took the listing I made sure they got the c.o. first.

Rock: I truly do not think you answered my question in any way whatsoever. Which I will repeat to you one more time. "What exactly does a buyer agent do above and beyond his/her usual duties when dealing with a FSBO?"

JR: I answered that question myself, but I think Catherine did a good job.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
Will
This thread is not at all about me or my circumstance. I sold as a FSBO back in March. The transaction couldn't have went easier or smoother. My attorney's fee was $500. This is ticvip's thread and it was stated as an answer to it that one of the reasons Realtors don't show FSBO homes was because the commission usually only reflects one half of the transaction, when in fact they would be doing double the work. To me, a statement like this is a knock at the efforts of a sellers agent's or FSBO's marketing as though it was worth nothing and a buyer agent deserves double the commission for their efforts in solely doing a transaction with an unrepresented seller. Catherine is certainly not the only one with this view. I have been reading this from Realtors' posts for over a year. I just feel it is a bogus overstated excuse. Having to deal around a homeowner's emotions about his and/or her home, and possibly a couple of other minor things is not worth FSBO's paying another 2.5% to 3%. It should be all in a day's work for an experienced professional agent. If it really seems like too much work for some agents, maybe they are in the wrong business.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
I realized an easier way to answer your question, but I can't figure out how to edit my previous answer.
---
What your really asking is why can't I just take a shortcut? The problem with short cuts is that they aren't shorter, or else everyone else would go that way too.

When people ignore the advice of guides who avoid the shortcut, it's a little frustrating to explain why the shortcut won't work.

Short cuts aren't shorter except in the very rare instance when one discovers a completely new method or route. What you're proposing is a not a new route. It's been tried and it doesn't work as well as the regular way of doing business.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
I don't know that I agree with your premise. I always show my client what the client wants to see and can afford. This is not just a matter of principal it's a matter of Fair Housing Laws. Any agent I know would gladly show and/or sell a home that pays a commission.

That said, your reply to one of the questions below indicates the problem. The problem isn' t that you don't know, the problem is that you don't know what you don't know ... what you don't know. It is true that agents find dealing with a homeowner rather than a selling agent a big hassle.

For example, below you say your "lawyer" is going to make sure that your "papers are in order". Lawyers charge more than realtors to perform this task and they aren't as easy to get in touch with. If you are really paying a lawyer to monitor your side of the transaction, you're not saving money but you are creating hassles. The fact that you don't understand this goes back to you don't know what you don't know.

Along the same theme, if your house is not selling I doubt it has a thing to to with your FSBO status. More likely the problem is the house or the price. Without an objective third party (an agent) it's pretty much impossible to know why your house isn't selling.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, and I truly hope your house sells quickly for more than you expect.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Sep 22, 2008
"I totally understand what your question is and I will try to answer it.

A sellers agent negoitates for the seller.
A sellers agent makes certain that buyer has submitted the proper paper work for the transaction to begin.
A sellers agent gets the second deposit
A sellers agent is there for inspections and helps negoitate any and all possibles issues (in the interest of the seller)
A sellers agent makes certain that all the contigencies in the contract are being met and at a timely fashion.
A sellers agent meets the appraiser at the home, providing them with comps.
A sellers agent gets the sellers home prepared for the CCO and applies for such."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Catherine

The question was "What exactly does a buyer agent do above and beyond his/her usual duties when dealing with a FSBO?" Not what a seller's agent does.

As a buyer agent, you don't negotiate for the buyer.
A FSBO's lawyer makes certain that buyer has submitted the proper paper work for the transaction to begin.
A title and escrow company can handle the second deposit.
The seller can be there there for inspections and negotiate any and all possibles issues.
The seller and his/her attorney can make certain that all the contingencies in the contract are being met and at a timely fashion.
"A sellers agent meets the appraiser at the home, providing them with comps." I truly think the appraiser will use his own comps, and still this is not something the buyer agent does.
"A sellers agent gets the sellers home prepared for the CCO and applies for such." I am sorry, but I am not familiar with a CCO. Perhaps you meant COO. Any issues jeopardizing this should be found and addressed with the results from the inspection. The rest should be fairly routine.

I truly do not think you answered my question in any way whatsoever. Which I will repeat to you one more time. "What exactly does a buyer agent do above and beyond his/her usual duties when dealing with a FSBO?" I truly think that if a seller is serious about selling, he will have "all of his ducks in a row." I know I did. However, I am sure there are some out there that may be just testing the waters and be totally unprepared, just as I am sure there are inexperienced unqualified agents out there as well. In having one of those on the seller side, as an experienced buyer agent, I am sure you would rather handle it on your own anyway.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Sep 21, 2008
I read this all the time about buyer's agents complaining that in dealing with a FSBO, they are doing twice the work for half the fee. Does this mean that a seller's agent or FSBO does nothing when they market and advertise a home? What exactly does a buyer agent do above and beyond his/her usual duties when dealing with a FSBO?
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The seller's agent generally keeps on top of their side of the transaction and advises/pushes the homeowner to get everything done in a timely manner. Sometimes this includes getting c.o.s, making trips to the building department, calling the sellers attorney, etc. When there is only an agent on the buy side, that agent has to make sure the seller has all their ducks in a row in addition to the buy side. Marketing a home is only part of the work, the real work begins when an offer is made. And for those who think a real estate attorney is going to do all those things---think again.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Sep 20, 2008
Maybe your still priced too high or the condition of your home is not as good as the other available properties in the area? Maybe nobody is just calling on the property? We have listing that are priced well and advertise the heck out of them and they are still not getting much attention, and with over 10 months of inventory in some areas surely you can understand why.

SIDE NOTE: A sellers agent does a lot more then just advertise and "Market" a listing, (FYI if you don't know the difference now is the time to learn.) Once they do get an offer, their job just begins.

BUT besides all that, I can understand if an agent didn't want to deal with the seller mainly because that agent will end up doing twice the amount of work because there is an agent missing on the other side of the transaction which usually ends up being the case. These types of transactions end up being a headache for the agent that does find themselves in this situation.

There is also the stigma associated when dealing with fsbo's that they will try and steal your client to avoid paying a commission all together and I have seen this happen, a lot! Actually I am preparing for a lawsuit now to get the commission from just such a situation. We are owed and will get paid for introducing buyers to sellers.

I'm seeing more sneaky underhanded dealings like this lately from buyers and sellers alike, using the services of a realtor then blowing them off trying to avoid paying a commission. Personally, I won't stand for it and will protect my agents and agencies and their earned income.

It's not that they are "blackballing" your listing, if a buyer wants to see it, we need to show it but an agent can and may often explain to the buyer the additional difficulties of dealing with a fsbo, sometimes they don't care, other times they do. Personally I'll show it no matter who is selling it because I always have a buyers agreement so I know I'll get paid one way or the other.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Sep 20, 2008
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