I just love the "I sell most of what I list because I price them correctly"

Fact is, the market prices the house!

A house is not priced by an agent, the market does.....all an agent is doing is telling the seller what buyers (the market) are willing to pay. No magic here folks!

Katie, sweetie, if your house hasnt sold, either its a trainwreck, or, your asking too much

Just that simple

Jared, as my last response to you, you are taking a lot for granted and assume that I had illegal or soon to be illegal busintess practices. I have always practiced my business from an ethical standard, as all REALTORS swore to do, but many ignore. I know there are a lot of greedy, money hungry people in this business, but that is the case in all business - look at lawyers, I know some good ones, but then there are those who call families from the obituary section and visit hospital rooms for business to make money - it is sad, but it is also capitalism that keeps our society free.

There is nothing illegal about points, financing, etc., and there will be nothining illegal about it in the future, as long as it is done above the table, and fully disclosed. There is no price jacking or appraisal tampering happening with this from my perspective (even though there are some that have done it in the past and are doing it now, it is not and will never be a part of my business).

We have all offered Katie some great ideas here, and points was one of them. No, she may not be in an equity postion to pay any points or lower her price, and that is the case with MANY home sellers today. The last closing I had where I represented the buyer, the seller had to bring $33,000 to closing with them. I realize not all sellers can do that, but it is a reality in our market.

MAny sellers took second mortgages out, over financed their home, over improved it for the area, or simply over-paid for it when they purchased. Many lenders loaned more than they should have, fixed appraisals to make money, and committed fraud, but those peole are paying the piper now, and we are all paying the toll with our shifting real estate market.

The fact is, there are still buyers who want to buy, and sellers who want to sell. Prices may have corrected, or adjusted, or fallen, and in some areas, actually gone up (hence the "localness" of real estate). Some cities are on an upswing, where some are down, but even in the down cities, there are up areas. WE have military base here and close the to base, real estate is booming. go 20 miles south, and it is stagnant - LOCAL results.

Yes Countrywide tanked all over, so did many others, and that is a national problem, but real estate trends are still VERY LOCAL, even though we have to deal with national problems. There is money out there for purchases, and the credit standards are still pretty loose on FHA and VA loans (they do not even look at credit score). Conventional loans are drying up unless you have a credit score of above 700, and sometimes 720, depending on the lender, but we just closed an FHA deal with a buyer who had a credit score of 605, so there is money out there.

Now, I never gave away a Benz or whatever ridiculous stuff you talk about, and when the average commission earned in my area is $4000 prior to splitting with the broker, and the average agent only closes 10- 12 deals per year, there is not enough money to even finance a Benz in there. WE are not in CA or FL, we are in the midwest, and our average sale price for our entire MLS is only $124,000, so to get rich off of that, one would have to close 200 deals per year or more, and out of 4000 board members, I do believe we may have between 8-10 that can accomplish that task - so to think that we all got rich riding the gravy train is again a VERY broad generalization about my industry - just like it would be for me to say all lawyers are blood sucker because a select few of them are - or all Doctors are greedy because a few of them charge WAY too much - it is all relative and always will be.

I hope you find what you want, Katie gets what she wants, and we all go on and have a happy life, because, let me tell you, Trulia is not a world problem solver either.

I wish you the best of luck in getting your home sold here Katie, I am sure you were able to take some good ideas away from the thread so far, let me know if I can be of some assistance to you in the future.

Katie some of the newer Subdivisions in Monroe are down 20% in price from 3 years ago. I would recommend that you talk to your agent and get a good feel for what comparable homes have sold for and what your competition is doing. You may have to take a loss to sell currently. If you can hold out for the new shopping area in Monroe and the Liberty Township Medical corridor you live in an area that could get a boost in home sales due to your location.

John, do you really believe that because you haven't seen the home prices drop (yet), that you can keep on trying to sell houses like its 2005. Why don't you give them a Benz? It worked in '05. Financing is the key? Your right there. If the house is break even you can't finance points anymore. Banks don't want to finance loans aren't fully securitized. She will be fortunate to find a buyer who can meet the new standards for lending on a house that is properly priced. Countrywide failed everywhere, real estate isn't THAT local.
I never said you charged a comission on points, taxes, or interest. I did say that all of these things, including your comission would end up costing more if I added money to the price by financing points. They would, they are all determined by the selling cost of the home.
Half of the rigorous standards you tout on a pre-owned vehicle get covered by the 25 point check I get free with every oilchange, and none apply to real estate. It's a dumb analogy on a faulty premise of paying for words. The same car, in the same condition, is cheaper without it.
Bashing such as with KB and their use of a warranty (which was a binding arbitration agreement in disguise) to pass off faulty built homes is not bad ethics. They did it, I talk about it. Sucks for them, don't stiff customers next time and they won't get picketed and sued (by the second owners since acceptance of the warranty prohibited the first owner from doing so). I'm simply protesting a bad practice.

I love your arguement about paying a cheaper price and bringing down comps. I love is the most since I agree 100%. What you don't realize is that that is what many buyers like me want to happen. There is a reason most of those "other" ways to save money are about to come illegal and the rest of them already are. Check out the massive real estate related arrests this month. Realtors used fear (and fraud) to get comps to appraise higher and higher while you made huge paychecks. Katie now gets to pay for that by suffering the "correction" as people so delicately put it. Blame the media, but if it's their fault I say you owe them a comission for all the money they made you on the way up.
You say your commission is not a concern as a buyer because the seller pays it. Do you say that if the home is FSBO or offers no split? I'd say the buyers care about your commission.

Katie, sorry to threadjack this, best of luck and I hope you have some good things to consider in making you decision.

Back to JAred,

Again I say - buyers who know everyting and have an answer for everything. I sell most of what I list because I price them correctly, offer good incentives, and go forward. My commission is not a concern of you as a buyer, as you do not pay it, the seller does, and if you think I charge a commission to people on closing costs and points that they pay, that would be an act of NOT acting as my clients fiduciary. I do not charge commissions on seller paid incentives, it defeats the purpose.

Also the $10,000 was a simple number picked for an example. I would have to sit down with Katie, look at the entire fincnial package, see the home, and then offer suggestions on what to do. Buyer feedback is essential if you have gone through the home, but to throw feedback up and tell her it is all about price only shows your near sightedness of the reality of the market. Also, to bash another company or a builder because they did not play ball the Jared way, is not exactly what I would call good ethics either.

The fact is, the news media has ruined the market more than anyone in the past six months by setting fear and panic in when our market is not where near that of fear and panic. We are not even that slow. Katie happens to live in an area that is a bit slower moving than others, and that is all about the location - and that is the ONE thing that can not be changed. The only way to overcome location is to lower the price, or lower the monthly payment, (for the buyers who can actually wrap their arms around that concept) and that is not at trick or tactic to make more commission money, or raise the price of homes. Selling homes at a consistently lower price will only drive the market down further, so all of you buyers out ther ewho buy low, keep in mind that the next one will be lower and lower again, adn before you know it, you owe more than your house will appraise for, and that is not a good position to be in - so go ahead and keep writing low offers, and thinking you are doing good when really, if you would look at other ways to save money, you would be protecting your investment in the long run, but again, it takes a professional agent and a buyer with a bigger mind to get their arms around the whole picture and not focus only on price.

Benjaminday was simply making reference to the fact that if a home is pre-inspected, perhaps, it might alleviate the buyers mind that the seller cared enough to see if there were any major issues before trying to sell the home, and dislcose all to the buyer - then the buyer can rest assured that when they write an offer, there will be no big surprises that pop up at time of inspections - no one ever mentioned not doing inspections, again, that would not be fiduciary and would be simply stupid on the part of the buyer. The car was an analogy that made great sense, to someone who can think on a higher level. I would rather look at certified pre-owned myself, and the last time i checked, that did not mean it was washed and pretty - there some pretty rigorous standards - but of course if PRICE is the only thing you can think about, the I guess you would not trust that the dealer was telling you the truth about that either. I still have a mechanic check the car over for $100 bucks, it is like the home inspection, but certified cars ususally check out better than others, in my experience.

I like to certify my listings with pre-list inspections and one year warranties to EASE THE MIND of the buyer and show good faith on thge part of the seller. We still reccomend inspections, one would be foolish not to, however, they usually go smoother and find less surprises than a home that was not "certified or pre-inspected."

This is not a back and forth banter session, but a forum for agents to act as professionals and give good professional advice. The advice of buyers and sellers is greatly appreciated and I respect your opinions, but in our market, which you are not a part of, there is much more to it than price, and until agents and buyers understand that, there will always be some level of stress associated with a real estate transaction.

I will hope that Katie certainly gets what she was hoping for and sells her home, it is up to her if she wants to contact any of us or not.

When you say loss, are you saying selling for less than owed ? Or not making as much profit as you thought?

I thought buyer feedback (even from one buyer) might be helpful to Katie. I offered an opinion. Hopefully she will evaluate all options.

Benjaminday, I can only speak for myself but I prefer to buy a car after a checkout and test drive with my mechanic than pay someone to slap Certified pre-owned on it. Pay 2K more because we give you a promise that it's pretty. My mechanic will check it out for $100. Pretty dumb analogy in my opinion.
Are you suggesting that you fix the furnace and then attempt to get the buyer not to do a home inspection because you already fixed the furnace. Maybe you suggest that a warranty negates the need for a home ispection. Were you trained by the good folks at KB? It's working well for them. Google that one.

"People will pay more for value?" This is one of those dumb, twisted, illogical salesman things. People will pay more for quality, but to pay more for value is is an IQ test. The same thing, more expensive is a BAD value. Cheaper is a GOOD value. This is the definition of value. The marketing world refers to your idea as implied value. Industries that use it for too long fail. (see: housing boom, creative mortgage, starbucks.) It an item is generically worth x and you charge x+10%, people may pay it for a while, but then someone comes along with an equal product for cheaper (the same price as before). This is the beauty of free markets. Bad Ideas, eventually, fail.

John, if you can finance $10k more to pay points, and pay less money, you have a poorly priced loan. It sounds like the price now is close to zero equity for Katie, so all your really doing is making people have an extra $10k for a down payment, so the appraisal comes back with enough equity to finance the $10k you want to use to buy down the points. Or, they could use the 10k to buy down the points on a lower priced home and save the money on the cost of points, taxes, interest, and your comission. You keep standing up to buyers. Keep not selling that house. Your listing clients will thank you for it.

Katie said she priced as low as she can go without a huge loss. Logic would suggest she can't afford to do 10K worth of repairs and not change the price.

Question back to Jered:
You would prefer the furnace be uncertain or defective?
You would prefer the electrical panel not be checked out?
You prefer to buy your cars as "used" and dirty versus "certified pre-owned?"

That's all the suggestion is. A very respectful nod to the buyer that when spending six digits, they get an experience that is similar to their $5 coffee purchase.

Most people will pay more for value.

But the reality is this for a seller: if there home hasn't sold... $1 is more. So ANY offer is better than what they have presently.

Fixing it up, certifying it, putting a one year warranty on it, providing receipts and peace of mind increase probability as much as value, and if you're a seller who is not selling and frustrated, you'll take probability.

Katie there is no secret. Its solely about price right now.

Jared, we are not asking you to pay for anything. A good real estate agent should be able to explain to you that if you pay full asking price for the home and the seller buys down your interest rate for $10,000 worth of points, your monthly payment will be lower than if you paid market rates for the same home at a price $10,000 less. Sure, the sale price would be lower, but over the long haul of the mortgage, the payments on the lower price and higher rate would FAR outweigh the payments on the higher price and lower rate.

Katie, here in lies the problem with the real estate market today: Buyers think they know all there is to know about everything that has to do with real estate; but truth be told, they do not. Have you ever shopped for a car? The price of the car makes no difference, unless you are paying cash, and then they negotiate LESS! What matters are the terms in which you buy it: The interest rate, the length of the loan, etc., etc. Well, it is the same when you are buying a home. Buyers think it is all about price, because for the last 10 years our market has been so strong and financing has been so easy that no one ever had to worry about terms - price is all that mattered.

In today's challenging and shifting market it takes a professional who can stand up to buyers who think they know it all and educate them on the finer points of negotiating and win-win deals. The things I pointed out to you do not cost the buyer any more money and good agents will coach and educate their buyers. if I have a buyer that "knows it all" and will not listen to reason and wants to "low-ball" every seller out there looking to steal a deal, that is not my buyer, and not any professionals buyer - they will let them go.

Just beware of the amatuer agent and the "wannabe investor" buyer - they are trying to take the market by storm right now. We are in a SLIGHT buyers market in our area, not anything like other markets throughout the country - Florida, California, Las Vegas, and many others. Real estate is LOCAL and will always be local, so be patient, do the right things, and don't worry about buyers that think price is all it is about - let them go pay a lower price elsewhere and watch them throw money away when they could have had a lower montly payment. Your home will sell; just price it right, stage it well, and work with professionals.

I see a lot of suggestions that cost money. I, as a buyer, would rather see a lower price than have the price go up to pay for the extra "marketing."
Price is no. 1.

I wouldn't put staging down near the bottom of the list. I would put it at the top. Seth Godin knows a little bit about marketing (see http://www.Sethgodin.com/purple and read a blurb or two) and his whole concept is that "we have moved from a culture of needs to a culture of wants." John has some good wants in the lines of incentives. But what you really want to do is sell the place and to do that, you have to do it to buyers.

Buyers want a lot of house right now. Give them a lot of house:
Have it staged
Have it professionally cleaned
DON'T make them take off their shoes or anything that accomodates you... it could be their house, if they want to take off their shoes, they're buying it.
Have it professionally inspected by a reputable inspector agents in the area respect and like
Make the repairs
Provide receipts on the kitchen table in a tidy stack of "peace of mind"
Then offer a warranty
All told, this might cost another $1200

It probably adds $5000 to your perceived value.

Buyer incentives
Closing costs paid
Higher commission to both the listing agent and the buyer agent - give a deadline to get an offer for the increased commission.
2-1 buydown on financing
An 800 number in your yard for buyers to call to get info
GREAT web exposure
Professional staging of your home
Professional (looking) landscaping
Low to mid range price for the neighborhood - not top end pricing

Also, has your agent shared with you stats such as market velocity, market saturation, etc., so you might know what to expect as a reasonable amount of time to sell your home?

All of this comes into play when you are selling - it is a scientific process - you have to pay attention to the stats and keep in mind that your home will follow the patterns of all the other homes out there - history WILL repeat itself, it always does, so price it right, market it correctly, stage it professsionally, clean it regularly, and it will sell.

Let me know if I can help you!

Katie,

As someone asked in another one of your questions...are you listed with a Realtor? What is your marketing plan? Try to get your home the most exposure as possible. Be proactive with your home, don't just stand on the sidelines. Chances are you may have friends or family that have come to your home and told you how wonderful it is. If this is the case, there is a good possiblity that they know someone looking for a wonderful home like yours. Do not be afraid to put the word out.

Good Luck