I have seen several of your posts on here recently. Based on those I expect some from here will call you. You seem to have a good grasp on what you are talking about. I do not see any blowing of smoke. And best of all, you give no spam. That is the kind of reply I would respond well to if you were in my area offering a service I could use. I am sure many others will soon realize the same thing.
I saw you posted a reply to a question with my name in it. You gave good ideas of comparing buying to renting. I always appreciate seeing people given thoughtful considerate replies giving things to look at before making a decision.
Regarding the VIP badges, I wonder how many more useful or useless posts I have to make to get to level 2. There is nothing I found saying I have 3,845 points and I need to get 6,000 points to be level 2 so I need to post to 1,155 more questions to arrive.
I wonder if that is to slow down the useless posting, or an oversight.
(post 325 in the thread) Are we on the "popular question" yet?
Dunes, I scored the real points by sending holiday cards to all my Realtors and clients. In the cards, I used a new line that I learned here on Trulia..........
SPEAK TO YOUR LOAN OFFICER-HE'LL BE ABLE TO HELP YOU :)
Joan I never said that nor suggested it.
I said that's the road they chose, I have said many times in this Forum that I felt they were headed in that direction and IMO Marketing the Consumer was the smarter choice for the very reasons you gave....
BTW you have not answered any of my questions..
This has just turned into a Dunes rant/vent and I really have no interest in that..
.I wanted the Consumer to be the motivation and the Badges to have meaning if they were used to suggest the Agents on the Find a Pro page had expertise or gave quality contributions to the Forum...
Ain't gonna happen...Trulia cares, meetings, Roundtables, tweeking..BS....Let's check in a few month shall we and then tell me I was wrong....
Enjoy your I provide quality to the Site Badges.......
Joan and all..Have a Great Christmas and New Year....
I guess if you are right and Trulia doesn't differentiate between agents and consumers and it is purely site hits that determine advertising dollars then maybe quantity IS more profitable but it seems counterintuitive in the long run to focus simply on quantity because eventually people will be turned off by spam/empty answers/useless blogs and stop visiting the site. Then the only people left here would be the spammers and those full of useless information.
You do understand that I am not defending this VIP system as it stands now, right?
Like you I am interested in participating in a website that encourages/emphasizes quality.
Trulia is what it is- a business trying to make as many bucks as it can.
Therefore, the Powers That Be may do things that we agree with or don't in order to increase their profit.
Does this really surprise you?
If we can't get a website such as this to change, we can decide to continue to use it or not. My personal view right now ( I know that you are not particularly interested in that but I 'm sorry- its all I got) is that I am receiving enough benefit from Trulia that it is still worth my while in spite of its flaws.
I would hope you feel the same way because without the likes of you, the quality would diminish considerably, in my opinion. Again, I apologize for the opinion but in this case that is all I have to offer.
It's as simple as you devise a way to distribute Badges ect. to as many as possible while encouraging people to post, in fact you make that the requirement....Everyone gets a Badge because anyone can post, so you make levels to encourage more posts in more areas of the site to increase Traffic/comments..
Now you place the Top posters on the Find a Pro Page...You need a Pro check these Pros out they are who Trulia considers valued Contributors (look at the Badge they were awarded)...Perhaps some people consider being on the Find a Pro page with a Valued by Trulia Badge a fairly nice bit of free promotion?...They certainly work/compete to get there by posting often..
Now you make sure there is no way for the Consumer passing through to know why these people are valued or how they earned the Badges....
Why? Because you wish them to assume it is not for some stupid reason like posting a lot but perhaps contributing good advice or expertise.....So you purposely leave no way to know one way or the other....
Otherwise the Consumer may say WHOOPDEE DOO/BOGUS and you do not want that because you are suggesting they are valued.
But how many people would be in those Rankings if they actually had anything to do with anything but posting a lot?
Some questions for you....Are the Rankings on the Find a Pro Page for the Consumer or the Agent?
Why are they put on the Find a Pro page prominently...Who is suppose to see them and why?
Why no info just Badges..Click on view all..
Why no weekly/monthly post count like "Top Contributors" had? (I suggest because people in the Forum were commenting about post a lot based on those numbers... so you get rid of them)
I suggest the answers to those questions will help determine Trulias real motivation more than anything else...
This is not about what you or I think it's about what the Consumer using this site thinks or what Trulia is suggesting they should think...They go to the Find a Pro Page for what reason? They see the Rankings/Badges and what is being suggested to them? It is misleading...Why?
I am not assuming they (Consumers) are going to spend the days we have in the Forum to judge the value of anyones comments so they can compare them to the Badges/Rankings..
.I'm suggesting they SHOULD NOT HAVE TO because if Trulia puts Agents on the Find a Pro Page with VIP Badges the Badges should actually be for something besides posting a lot .......
I agree comments speak for themselves but once again what does that have to do with what I'm saying about the VIP program......
"I am assuming that their motivation is to make money. Usually that is done by attracting consumers. How is it profitable to have a ranking system that ends up encouraging more spam and empty answers/blogs, whatever?"
Site Traffic...Numbers..Do you think They keep track of how many Realtors vs how many Consumers visit the site?
Site Hits/Views/Traffic attracts Advertisers, that's how money is made and Trulia can rise in Site Traffic Ratings to attract more advertisers...
"The first thing you must do is create a well designed site and establish a marketing strategy and use techniques designed to create traffic to the website for long term results"...http://www.websitetrafficrankings.com/seo-articles/importanc
Take the author of this post. His point total is about 15 (14 views plus one point for posting the question).
Had he posted this as a blog ( 5 points per blog comment recieved plus 2 points per blog view ) he would probably own the company in short time.
See, if you ask a question and get 1000 comments, you get one point. Post the same question as a blog and you have 5000 point plus 2 points for each view. VIP 3 status earned fair and square.
Do you understand now Dunes? It all makes perfect sense when you put effort into understanding it.
Could you show me that formula again?
Yes I DO think that people's postings will speak for themselves. Don't you?
Yes I do think that what people say carries far more weight than the rankings that Trulia has assigned to them. I guess you don't.
Maybe if you could give me some insight as to what you think Trulia's motivation is because that is what I am not getting.
I am assuming that their motivation is to make money. Usually that is done by attracting consumers. How is it profitable to have a ranking system that ends up encouraging more spam and empty answers/blogs, whatever?
"I don't think there is some plan (plot?) by Trulia to purposely keep people in the dark. I really see no purpose to that. "
because the CONSUMER would most likely say WHOOPDEE DOO/BOGUS and that is why figuring it out is purposely misleading
I understand you do not think this is that important or you have more important things/issues to deal with or comments will speak for themselves so.......
That's fine but I do wonder why you keep asking me to see this that way also...I don't and it's just that simple
We completely disagree...Why would they do it the way they did if you are correct. Why no way of telling why people are ranked the way they are. (Talking about when someone/Consumer see's the Ranking)
No weekly/monthly post count...
Look thru the Rankings and you tell me why people are Ranked the way they are? Any of the Rankings provided by the drop down....
They are posted on the Find a Pro page (the rankings) for consumers to see...These people are VIPs, these are level3's, these are the one's on the Front Page...Starting from top to bottom in this order...
The suggestion is they have contributed something of value...So look at the Find a Pro page and you tell me how that value is determined or what it is...Why should Consumers see these people on the Find a Pro page, what does VIP mean?
I'm honestly not trying to be snide or holier than thou or sarcastic or anything...
I am just saying answer some questions asked or please stop suggesting I'm incorrect without providing anything beyond " A person's postings speak for themselves " or I haven't really looked but I think or do not feel...
You are right..I posted this again because no one answered it and still haven't beyond....Aw I do not think they would....That's not an answer, it's an opinion and it's based on what?
Mine is based on a year of watching these changes, comments made by Trulia in response to questions asked, actions they've taken or not taken, the experience of "Top Contributors" and the Ranking system they had before that, email conversations with staff, how Trulia reacts to questions, questions they never respond to, how they handled Best Anwser and questions pertaining to it, Spam and all the discussions here
I did not just TOSS an arbitrary or baseless comment/accusation out there.......
I think what you are saying is that the ranking system (or whatever it is) is purposely convoluted in order to lead the consumer to think that it is an accurate measure of a contributor's value to this website?
A person's postings speak for themselves, much louder than the ranking which might lead someone to investigate a contributor further.
As it is virtually impossible to come up with a perfect ranking system, I think it is okay to tell Trulia: keep trying because this isn't working.
I don't think there is some plan (plot?) by Trulia to purposely keep people in the dark. I really see no purpose to that.
I just think they are simply trying different things and hopefully will consider the input of people such as yourself in tweeking the system.
Why some people are VIP3 some 2 some 1?
The one's at the Top must be the best right? Best at what? How does the Consumer know that?
Those pages are so Consumers can view them that's why they are placed on the Find a Pro Page is that not correct? So wouldn't it be nice if a Consumer knew why the people on the pages are Ranked the way they are?
I'm saying NO IT WOULD NOT because the CONSUMER would most likely say WHOOPDEE DOO/BOGUS and that is why figuring it out is purposely misleading...period.....and I MEAN PURPOSELY......PERIOD
I was able to steal a copy of the instructions Trulia used to build the VIP program here they are and I hope they help.....
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Step 2. Å˜Â»Â®=4....å‚šå…„åƒå…Œåƒ¹åƒ©
When you see it all laid out like this it makes more sense...Hope this helps
That was why I explained in more detail what I meant.
I did appreciate your reply. Thank you for the lengthy reply. I bet the person who asked the question will get a better idea what they need also.
I did not think I was wrong, but I am always willing to admit I get things wrong, from time to time. I think I have most of the basics down, but could be wrong. Financing issues are really foreign to me. I took out a secured loan just to create credit several years ago..I have zero debt. I have a bunch of credit cards. I only use the sears mastercard because I can pay it off at the store. The other day I bought something at sears. I used my credit card. As soon as the transaction was complete I paid off my sears card. Yes, I seldom use that card. I always use cash. I was in my 30's before I ever had any credit. Cash or no was (and is) my motto. A $500 car will work. Why rent (make payments on) a more expensive one? Now many years later I plan to buy with cash so the finance charges I paid were wasted <cries>. Saving most of my disposable income over more than a decade has paid off.
I'm still stuck in Dunes' pot trying to work my way around all those regulations they keep throwing in there.
Toss em all in the pot and stir, do not add regulations, oversight or enforcement...What do you expect to get?
Answer----What we got.
For me A+B+C pretty much always adds up to A+B+C anything else is usually connected to a Badge Program ...lol ...sorry could not resist......
I'm referring to this post: http://www.trulia.com/voices/Financing/Can_anyone_help_-186535
If you noticed it took me about 20 paragraphs to defend you. Once again, couldn't I just have written a one-liner???
Joan, you definitely deserve a badge-I don't know how you do it.
I must have tried ten or so times tonight. I have so much paperwork to do before I go to sleep (thanks to all those who contributed in making mortgage disclosure packages thicker than the yellow pages) yet every answer is at least 1.5 sentences long.
I firmly belive that with enough practice I'll get there.
Dunes, what a grasp of the obvious. The realtors talking about the lenders. The sad thing is, I missed picking up on it until you mentioned it. <smacks head>
1st Question..Who caused the Housing market collapse?
Realtor...The Mortgage Brokers who took advantage of unwary consumers and gave out bad loans blah blah blah
2nd Question..Whats the first thing I should do when thinking of Buying a Home
Same Realtor.. First you want to Contact a Mortgage Broker so you can be matched up with the right loan
Gotta love the logic applied....
Al I actually see this a lot and so will you over time..BTW, I do not think the Mortgage Brokers are responsible for the collapse ;)
Snappy answers are a requirement.
Apparently YodaSpeak is important as well but I am still working on that:
Seek advice from lawyer you should.
How did I do? Do I get my badge yet?
Speak with an attorney
Speak with a lawyer
Seek advice from an attorney
Seek advice from a lawyer
Confer with an attorney/lawyer
Go see a person who is a legal expert and has hopefully passed the bar exam in your state
Discuss this legal matter with a person who attended law school, passed the bar exam and hasn't committed any felonies and by the way, is a real estate attorney, lawyer, barrister, expert in law.
And Dunes, I think I"M the one who owes YOU. At least 3 cents.
Its all I have these days.
Now imagine trying to come up with that ten to twenty times in a day.
Not an easy task.
Not likely ..lol
Sorry I missed the comment you made I honestly thought you had not seen it..
I did mention the 1 cent per profile view advertising charge didn't I....So far I owe you two cents!!
Dunes, I thanked you vehemently(spelled right? ) for that honor yesterday and I truly mean it.
Keep it up and you may have to add All Around Nice Guy to your profile.
Nah, that would be an image killer. I like it just the way it is.
page 1 spot 1 Bill Eckler from florida. Keith Sorem, Don Tepper, someone from dallas who speaks like Yoda from star wars, then Deborah Madey.
page 2 Alan May
page 3 Debbie Rose
I could go on, The names I mentioned above all would get a recommendation for being professional and knowledgeable.
page 1 Dunes.
page 3 NonRealtor (maybe up a page soon)
page 4 rockinblue and then Dp2
page 5 me.
page 6 Jefferson
Each of the non-real estate people above try to help. Each has given good replies. Maybe not being in a hurry due to business concerns helps. Each has given longer and perhaps more thorough replies at times than most pro's on here have. (I said most ok?)
Personally, I would put Alan May and Debbie Rose on page one also. I have seen their posts and liked the way they have given them. Professionalism , understanding, and trying to be helpful while watching out for the buyers is evident. Deborah should also be higher than the person above her is.
I am also surprised that we non-realtors are so high up on the list.
I still see no sense as to how a VIP badge works. On the community members page 1 we see vip 3, then vip2, then vip3, then vip1 all on page 1. We even have five (5) people on page one who do NOT have any VIP badge at all. How does that make sense? I mean how does it help a consumer?
As far as rewarding blogs for being visited goes, has trulia considered that people may look at blogs to see how off base they are? Or they can not believe that someone would have a blog like that? I have looked at blogs that were spam. Hire a lawyer for (insert here) in (insert area here) or the equivalent.
Can't we just let the answers, comments, whatever, speak for themselves? Do consumers really give a darn about all this?
I think I need an another glass of wine.
Maybe then all this will become clearer.
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Believe it or not I was tied up at work-not as much fun as "Truliating" or whatever you want to call it.
My final question on this is, which number is the one that counts towards total points-the counter at the top or the totals of all the individual counters?
Basically, I don't have a good answer to your question. It's been that way since I started at Trulia -- more than a year and a half now -- but it doesn't mean that it can't change. I agree that thumbs-up numbers would be better understood in the context of # of answers vs. # of questions answered, and will chat with folks here to see why we're doing it this way.
Not so... I requested they remove mine the first day and they said they did not think they could once you got one but they would check.
They did remove my photo from those on the Blog when I asked so I do Thank them for that
Go to your Profile and turn the Alerts for this question off or use the dropdown under My Trulia and turn them off...
Use the email alerts on the Answer box and turn them off...
Fairly simple problem to solve.....
I believe that is the Trulia hope just as it is Zillows.....No one will really follow or care enough to know what's going on.....
It's a "tempest in a teapot!!" :) like any other issue when mentioned....It's always why ya makin such a Big Deal?
(I said we'd discuss it at the next meeting....Thank-you for your input, now go away..)
That being said...REALTOR.com has such a huge stake in the game that I don't think they will ever go out of business, but it's obvious that for forum purposes trulia wins.
Far more honest, everyone gets one, no class system and has the same value as a VIP...Requiring people to post more to get the Zillow Badge does not make it have more value........
Now maybe someone from Zillow will show up and explain Zillow Badges have value cause we calculate the movement of Jupiter and........
Everyone is thanking you for clearing things up yet you've skipped/not directly answered my question...
What you said was
"Perhaps the most confusing item is "helpful answers" (shown when you sort by number of helpful or best answers): "helpful answers" is the total number of thumbs-up received for your answers. This number can be greater than the number of answers posted because an answer can receive more than one thumbs-up. "
That is because a person may post more than once in a question (let's say 4 times).They may get a TU each time...So the total count would show 1 Answer 4 TU's .....Not 4 Answers 4 TUs ..Is this correct?
So using answers and Thumbs ups...500 answers 1000TUs does not provide an accurate picture of what actually happens because it may actually be 4000 comments/posts 1000TUs
One says they are really helpful/smart cause they average 2 TUs per answer, the other says 1 in 4 times they post they get a TU if averaged....Big difference IMO...
All my comments on this thread count as 1 Answer is that correct?
So I'm really smart/helpful/whatever cause I got 20 TUs for 1 Answer..........I nailed it lol
The other stuff...Yeah it all makes sense now, I can see why that method of counting, figuring out contributions, updating ect.. was used.......
@ all who thanked....Now you understand how it works because of the explanation Louis gave...Right?
So when a Consumer looks at the VIP pages how do they determine why those at the Top are there?
Why some people are VIP3 some 2 some 1?
The one's at the Top must be the best right? Best at what? How does the Consumer know that?
Those pages are so Consumers can view them that's why they are placed on the Find a Pro Page is that not correct so wouldn't it be nice if a Consumer knew why the people on the pages are Ranked the way they are?
I'm saying NO IT WOULD NOT because the Consumer would most likely say Whoopdee Doo/Bogus and that is why figuring it out is purposely misleading...period.....and I MEAN PURPOSELY......PERIOD
@Carl.."This has most certainly been a tempest in a teapot!! :)" ....
Thanks for sharing you feel that way daily but you and I could not disagree more about your view that all of this is unimportant , a waste of time or a small issue...period....
How do we count those hits? Well, it's simple: just take the second derivative of the comments per post over time, multiply by the standard deviation of the user's TUBA score across the past three years, and divide the natural logarithm of that result by a random number between 0 and 10,000.
It goes like this: for each unique visit to your blog, we increment the counter at the top -- that's the total # of blog views. Separately, we count the number of visits to each blog post. This is a different number because someone can visit your blog and read multiple posts.
I'll use this post from Pete's blog as an example:
Say I land on this page from a Google Search:
I'm a new visitor to Pete's blog, so we increment his blog view counter by 1. I'm also a new visitor to that post, so we also increment post's view counter by 1.
Let's say I use the "previous" link to read another post from his blog, ending up here:
My visit to Pete's blog has already been counted, so we don't increment his blog view counter this time. However, it's the first time I've seen this post so we increment that post's view counter by 1.
The sum of the number of post views should only equal the sum of the number of blog views in two cases: first, if there is only one post on the blog, or, second, if each visitor to the blog has only read a single post.
What happens, you may ask, when someone visits the blog's home page? I.e.:
In this case, we consider all posts on that page "viewed" -- i.e., we increment the blog's view counter if the person is new to the blog, and we increment the view counter for each post shown if that person hasn't already viewed that post in this visit.
Clear as mud?
Each individual blog show the number of views for that specific blog (in between where it says the date it was posted and number of comments) .
On the top right corner of each blog, there is a higher number where it shows (what I assume is) the total number of blog views for that member.
There is always a large discrepancy between these two number.
For example, Deborah Madey's total blog views (the number on the top right corner of all of her blogs) are less than 1,600 but if you add up the views on each individual blog of hers, she has more than 2,000 views.
Why is this?