Scott,
It is 6 months since your post. I am wondering if you went the For Sale by Owner route or if you hired an agent and how it worked out for you. I would love to hear a follow-up.

Jenet Levy
Halstead Property
jlevy@halstead.com
(212) 381-4268

Good question Scott, sell it yourself if you feel strongly about it. Give yourself at least four to six months to sell it and price it accordingly to the market not what your personal feelings about the 1930's art deco building or the apartment. At the end of the day it's a studio and should be priced accordingly. Lastly, regarding us brokers and agents and the misrepresentation that we don't do anything and collect a 6% commission. I challenge anyone to work on comission and give as much time as we do, and oftentimes the good buyers or sellers will turn around and use our information to their advantage and we're left with nothing. It's not as clear cut as it seems and it's damn hard but go for it dude, good luck.

Hi! If you have ever watched channel 64 you'd know why. Brokers live and breathe this and know all the paperwork that goes along with a sale. Brokers also have a pool of prospective buyers...try a broker for 3 months and if it does work try marketing it yourself...or vice-a-versa. And if you need a broker I lie in LES and can help you out if you decide to use a broker.erinr@ccrny.com

I agree with most of the comments and most importanly that it'll take longer to sell on your own. In this market it takes us brokers approx 160 days to sell can you imagine what it'll take a FSBO? You "might" be able sell it quicker if you do your homework,and price it ahead of the market. You stand a better chance but nothing's guranteed. The bottom line is this, if you have an issue with brokers because we're evil and money hungry etc..and you have the time and go for it dude. Anyone can sell anything if they have the knowledge, patience and time. Good luck.

I do agree that you should try it yourself and see what it's like.

But I don't think you have to worry about crooks coming into your apartment, I do think you will find a lot of buyers who aren't at all serious or able to afford your place.

I hit some open houses today, and the most noticeable thing is that hardly anyone showed up. You may find that is your biggest problem--lack of interest. Careful, strategic pricing will help you.

Be sure to demand to see a pre-approval letter from buyers once it gets to that stage. Also, if you are willing to pay a buyer's broker 3%, I suggest you put that into your ads (or just say "brokers protected"), we know what that means. Otherwise you won't get traffic from brokers who are working with buyers.

All the best to you!

http://www.nestseekers.com/Company/Agent/874

Bob,

I completely agree with you on your first and second point.

As for point #3 and #4, I have to disagree. And I disagree for the following reasons.

A broker can achieve a higher sales price for the seller by getting buyers in the door sooner. Depends on how a property is priced, get bidders go against each other and even if the offers are identical on price, one or the other will stand out on terms and conditions. i.e., quicker close date, more money down, pre-approved, etc...
The quicker people know about the property the faster this sale can happen.

With a FSBO, properties stay on the market longer. We all know that.
On the buying side, a broker can deliver accurate and most current comps to justify an offer. Something not every buyer can do on their own, or would know where or how to start that process. They rarely compare apples to apples, and they rarely know the condition of apartment A vs. apartment B, time on market, views, seller’s motivation behind the sale, etc...

Perfect example of exact things I'm referring to is a new show on HDTV. "Real Estate Intervention".
It's there in plain site, FSBO's who try to sell and fail at it or lose money on it. They are emotional, they are attached, they put blood-sweat and tears into renovations and can’t seem to understand why similar properties are selling while theirs is sitting.

It’s obvious that we won’t agree on everything, and that’s expected. You speak from your past experience and I speak from mine.

Scott on the other hand could have given us some indication on how he decided to proceed, and if his 6% has been justified.

Alen,

I don't want to get into a pointless argument, but to clarify what I meant:

1. It is definitely true that a broker takes the time out of their schedule to arrange viewings. That is worth something. No doubt.
2. Almost all apartment sales in Manhattan are brokered. If you dont use a broker, you are are definitely at a disadvantage in terms of prospective buyers. No doubt.
3. It is certainly NOT true that brokers help you get a higher price as a seller and a lower price as a buyer. I have found that the single motivating factor for every broker I have dealt with so far is to close the deal as fast as possible. As a consequence, first time buyers and sellers will not do much better than going out on their own.
4. As far as real useful information to buyers and sellers (inside picture of financials) brokers are useless. They either do not have the pertinent information or will not give it to you. Never ask your broker for an opinion and never trust what they say, either as a seller or a buyer.

FYI, I have used brokers for almost all the apartments I have been involved in. I have found that the best way to deal with them is to tell them what you want to do and not listen to their opinion. It has served me well. Think of the 6% as the cost of doing business.

Bob,

Please....let's not over exedurate the situation here. No one is trapping you, and if someone is there is always a way out.

You have to realize that most people are not like you and they haven't Sold and Bought 12 apartments. Which by the way I'm very curious about now that you brought it up. Out of these 12 apartments, have you profited on every sale, and if you are such an expert why do you feel trapped with brokers if you can market on your own and find your own direct buyers and do your own research? After selling and buying 12 apartments you don't need a broker to tell you anything new. You need a broker who can tell you where the market is, some stats and someone who can sell your place and save you the time of finding a place.

No one said it's impossible to sell on your own. The "GIST" of the blog here is that going the FSBO route will take a lot longer. If it takes over 160 days to sell an apartment with a broker, do you honestly think that time would be cut in half if the owner was selling on his own? Doubtful. I don't have to tell you that time in this market costs money. The longer the property sits the less desirable it becomes and now no one wants to pay top dollar. Why? Because FSBO's goal is to NET the highest possible sale price and a Buyers goal is to pay the least possible price. (Different goals). We all know the psychology of direct buyers and FSBO's..."Oh great here is a FSBO not using a broker, I will automatically deduct the 6% off the price and then negotiate further". Welcome to reality.
Most people are busy professionals; they can't leave work at two in the afternoon twice a week when a hot buyer wants to see it. If YOU can't show when it's inconvenient for you, I guarantee you that the seller down the block listed with a broker CAN show it.

No one forces anyone to do anything.

The gist of the answers I am getting is - we brokers already have the market - you dont stand a chance on your own.

Sad but mostly true.

Brokers are a pain in the *** for both buyers and sellers, and we are trapped with them. I have never yet met a broker who has given me any useful advice on either buying or selling, in the12 apartments I have been involved in Manhattan.

Hello Scott,

There is a reason why most sellers list their property with brokers. As a listing broker vast majority of calls I receive are always from OTHER BROKERS . Most broker listings ( 90%-95%) sell with the cooperation of the seller's broker and the buyer's broker. As much as people do use/search the internet when they are looking to buy, this is not necessarily what sells your apartment. Most serious buyers that are ready to pull the trigger either start out with a broker right off the bet or they attach to a broker sooner or later in the process or once they ar ready to pull the trigger. The reasons for that are obvious: Its a free service to the buyer, there is a lot of info and knowledge the buyer's broker will provide and there is actually a lot of work involved in searching for property and then going through the transaction....... Finally a buyer will use a broker to have someone represent them and their best interests which is not the case when they deal with the seller's broker who represents STRICTLY THE SELLER.
When you are selling yourself , you are missing a huge amount of EXPOSURE to buyers that would be coming to you through the brokerage community. It hurt not just the exposure of your apartment , but also possibly the price that you will be able to sell for. The more exposure you are getting the better the chance you will get someone in there who will find the apartment IDEAL for their particular purposes and be willing to pay the price.............. If you are able to generate a higher price through working with a broker that will theoretically offset any commission you will be paying them.

Finally, as much as it is understandable that seller would prefer to save money and not pay the commission, you may find that selling on your own can be a lot of work and frustration. Once again that would be another reason why seller's list their property, as what they are paying for is actually the SERVICE, like any other and the amount of work involved is well worth the fee especially if the seller is very busy and their free time is valuable to them....... The expert advice is also something you may find useful. The truth is that most For Sale by Owner in NYC do not do well trying to sell on their own and they eventually end up listing the property after a while.........
Also it may be useful for you to know that it is not uncommon to list at 5% commission. That should not hurt your listing as it is widely used within the brokerage community.
I hope this is helpful.
.

It is possible to sell it on your own. The sites you mention have a great way of exposing your property online where 84% of potential home buyers are looking. Our service actually posts your listings on those sites and many more for you to save you the hassle. We have a professional real estate marketing director who will personally upload all of your listings. This is certainly one way to save yourself the payout of a commission on the sale of your property. Check us out!

Think of it this way:
"Why do buyers to go a FSBO?"
because they want to PAY the lowest price possible - but yet the FSBO wants to receive the HIGHEST price possible...opposite goals, right?

I have sympathy for FSBOs they have absolutely NO IDEA WHO they are "inviting" into their homes. The county's newest parolee planning his next heist?

." And they are all right, it is proven that 95% of all for sale by owners work eventually with a broker. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I was reading over the answers starting from most recent going to the first, and was surprised that no one resorted to misleading twisted statistics until Adina's post.

Adina show me the proof.

BTW, I recently saw one of Alen's posts on Zillow on the same basic topic. His reply over there was equally as good without having to resort to biased statistics. Am I going to argue with any of his points? Nope. He certainly knows the NY market better than me. I'm thinking that's a whole 'nuther animal.

Scott,

If you are going to do a FSBO, you may want to take a look at my blog. Good luck. You're probably going to need it.

http://www.trulia.com/blog/rockinblu/2008/08/thinking_about_…

This almost sounds like you are doing us a favor Scott, by throwing your question out as to WHY you should use a broker.

You already got some great replies in this post, and let me throw in my two cents.

Yes it's true that majority of FSBO's without quoting any percentages here end up listing with a broker. I know this from personal experience because I work FSBO's all the time. At first they are confident that they can do it on their own. The building they live in is always the nicest building, the apartment they live in is always the nicest apartment with best renovations, in the best line, with the best views and best light and on and on etc...

Then they tell you that they have done this before or their friend did it back in 2006, 2007 when people were buying with eyes closed, site on seen. It's now 2009 and we may never see 2007 again.

Selling is emotional, unfortunately people have a very hard time separating emotions with a business transaction (because that’s exactly what this is, a business transaction)
Most buyers don't care for the red paint or a bathroom that you spent $50,000 which looks like it belongs in a Goth club. I think you get the point.

Most motivated sellers do not advertise on Craigs List when it comes to selling an apartment in New York. Most FSBO's I work with have had their AD on NYTimes, and For Sale by Owner, and FSBO.com and all the others. SO WHAT?

Here is the REALITY of things. I haven't met any buyer that I previously worked with who went onto FSBO sites to look for their next home? After all why would they, when they can go on the major brokerage sites or sites like Trulia and Zillow to browse, and New York Times?
Majority of buyers work with a broker anyway. Why? Because a buyer doesn't pay for the services offered.
Most buyers coming in directly are bottom feeders or sharks, they will smell blood and low ball you, even if you are priced correctly. Or the less savvy ones can ruin the deal by not having all of their financials in place, paper work, time issues...Lack of proper research, lack of comps, lack of building knowledge, area, the right attorney for the deal, etc...

If you aren't offering at minimum 3% to a buyer’s broker, chances are very slim that any would bother bringing their client to show your apartment. Depending on the seller and the level of motivation, brokers tend to shy away and prefer not working with FSBO's because it can complicate the transaction. Back to Emotions. There should be a Neutral Party like a broker who can tell them (Look it's a good offer, your apartment is cookie cutter just like 50 others in your price range, and you better take this offer or Bob down the block will because he wants to sell right now not back in 2007).

If you go FSBO, and you get no action for a month, or two, or three you will be forced to lower your price, otherwise your apartment will linger for another 3 months. Now.......When you lower your price it won’t be by $10,000 or $20,000 because no one will take you seriously. It should be around 10%.
So 4 months later and 10% lower, that seller is sitting there and is thinking why did I waste 4 months and now I'm 10% less and still can't get people in when I could have had guidance and professional marketing for 6%. Now if I get an offer, it will take on average 3 months to close, if prices drop further I can have a tough buyer who will tell me at the closing table that prices dropped some more and he wants to rework the contract or otherwise he's walking away from this deal, at which point you would have to START ALL OVER AGAIN. And when it's your turn to buy, interest rates may have gone up, and prices stopped falling.

At that point, it's too late for that conversation.

You also mentioned living in Lower East Side in a new conversion from an office building. I may be wrong, but this to me sounds like Financial District. Renters go there because landlords are offering great incentives; it's very hard to attract a buyer into that area. And when you do, they will be afraid of New Developments and New Conversions for the simple fact of not knowing how stable the building is, how many units are sold, in contract, investor units. They will need to know that and the Bank will need to know that.

I believe Lincoln once said. "Any lawyer who represents himself has a client for a fool." (Not being directed at you or anyone specifically, it's just a great quote)

You just have to let go sometimes and hand it over to a pro. Let them do what they do best.

I wish you luck Scott and I'm sure that you will make the right decision, whatever it is for you.

~Alen

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Scott,

i'll try to keep it short and tell you that if you're just trying to sell your property for a fair market value or a bit under go ahead and do it on your own but know that - right now the average time for an apartment on the market is excatly 6 months. that's a lot of time, money, aggrevation and plenty of sundays not to mention the calls during the week. If you're trying to get maximum dollar then you need to spend a lot on advertising to get maximum exposure to reach that one person who really likes your place.
in a chalenging market like the one we're going through these days you'd like to work with the tier 1 companies rather than experiment with the local broker. Prudential Douglas Elliman has been the #1 company in New York for the past 6 years. when you'd like to hear more I'd be happy to elaborate how to market your property.

regards,
Avi Lasri
alasri@elliman.com
917-662-8525

Hey Scott.

As a broker myself I can appreciate the enthusiasm you have to sell the property on your own. But the fact of the matter is that it is not as easy as it sounds. Brokers play a very important part in the pricing, negotiating, marketing and selling. In this market it is SO important to price the property right and bring it to market like a shining star. You only get one chance to make that first impression. If selling a property was as easy as posting up a couple of ads, everybody would do it and professional brokers like myself would not have a job. Also when you hire an agent you also get the services of the company behind that agent. As Adina mentioned before, many do try and eventually end up going with a broker. Typically a broker will end up with a higher selling price than a person who went the FSBO route and they usually get to contract in less time.

I suggest that you interview a few brokers and see what they have to offer you, and if you feel that you can do it... Give it a shot. If there is anything else I can do for you please do not hesitate to ask

Paul Macapagal
Prudential Douglas Elliman
pmacapagal@elliman.com
paulmacapagalnyc.blogspot.com

Adina, that was a classy response. If I was selling in NY, I would give her a call.

You will be bombarded by brokers who are going to tell you why its better to use us. And they are all right, it is proven that 95% of all for sale by owners work eventually with a broker.
But, why don't you try it first?
If you feel you want to give it a shot by trying yourself, go for it.
Good luck and if you decide to interview brokers after a while, please let me have a shot on telling you why I think you should work with me and my company. Coldwell banker Previews International.