Home Selling in 94112>Question Details

Bill, Home Seller in 94112

I am trying to sell my property with a bad section 8 tennant inside, She intimidates all buyers by asking for drivers liscences from buyers and agents

Asked by Bill, 94112 Fri Jun 11, 2010

I have a section 8 tennat living in my property, she is looking for a big settlement before she allows me to move her out or sell the property , She intimidates all protential buyers by demanding to see drivers liscences before
she allow them to see the property, she also logs all buyers name and DL in a log book. Buyers are scared by her hostile attiitude and worry about privacy concerns, Agents are also scared by her, what can I do? Also she
told all potential buyers there is a lawsuit on the property, which is not true, I have not evict her, nor did I try to terminate her section 8 contract. I cannot sell the property because of her, and she deliberately wastes water

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18
Keith Keller’s answer
Hi Bill, Boy do I feel your pain!!! I have some very valuable information for you. With the section 8 agreement you were provided with annually, there is the name of the primary tenant's case worker. Call that case worker on the phone and threaten to evict the tenant. Now here comes the good news. If you were to follow through with an eviction, your tenant would lose his or her benefit under the program. My experience is that the tenant will drastically change his or her attitude when that case worker calls them to tell them you are talking eviction!!!!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu May 2, 2013
I recommend that you hire an agent with experience in evictions, San Francisco Administrative Code 37.9; knowledge of 6.14 ; 6.15 and other codes as well as knowlege of most landlord tenant attorneys in San Francisco.

Before becoming a Realtor with Century 21 Hartford properties, I did nothing but property management for 15 years and I have dealt with all of the above and Believe me, it takes a lot of know how and experience to deal with your issues.

It makes all the difference in the world that you have a realtor with my experience, and I am not just saying that...if you don't hire me, hire another realtor with similiar property management experience and you'll see better results as well.

I wish you luck with your problem.

Better than luck, have someone knowledgable deal with each and every problem in the right way.

415-863-7500 office
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon May 14, 2012
There is a viewpoint expressed that the Rent Board is pro-tenant and in probably most cases that is correct. I have worked with the rent board and fouund that they respond very favorably to reasonable people. This sounds so basic but it is really hard to actually do when you are fighting for thousands of dollars.
The fact is the rent board will support a landords position if the landlord is seeking fair and reasonsble treatment or relief from an abusive tenant.
This situation is also an important example for all owners to keep tenants under legal agreement. When a lease expires make it very clear that the month-to-month tenancy going forward is subject to the same rules of access, maintenance, showings during sale etc.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 17, 2012
Jed Lane; Fog…, Real Estate Pro in San Francisco, CA
MVP'08
Contact
You choices are really pretty clear. Either consult an attorney who will help you document her behaviour and her attemtps at extortion or dump the property.
Dumping the property means selling at a discount that is clear and the tenant becomes the buyers problem. Suing her won't do you much good as she likely has no assets.
The previous advice is all good and you really should take steps to deal. Read the contract, look for help from HUD or the issuing authority locally, after that consult an attorney and the San Francisco Rent Board. The rent board is an important step so don't bypass it. YOu want to go to them as the most reasonable landlord that ever walked the face of the earth. Your side must be known to them or they will only hear the tenants side.
Once you consult an attorney have all communication come from them. Remove yourself from the conflict, it will save you heartache and the tenant won't be able to play "he said - she said" as well.
Obvioulsy all of this will cost you money. Weigh out the expense against the sale price and decide if you's rather just dump it and walk away. If you decide to dump be sure to disclose.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 12, 2010
Jed Lane; Fog…, Real Estate Pro in San Francisco, CA
MVP'08
Contact
First, she can't keep you from viewing the property with buyers and agents. She has the right to receive notice of entry, but not to keep you out. She has no right to know the names of the agents and buyers, so you or your agent should not provide them. Check your lease document and section 8 contract - it should have words that say you have the right to enter the property with notice to show it to potential buyers. Second, if she is being such a pain, record her rants and use them as evidence against her. Check with your attorney, you may be able to sue her for telling lies that harm you financially. Finally, why haven't you evicted her or terminated her contract? If that's what's holding up a sale, you should discuss it with your attorney immediately. It doesn't seem that this is the type of tenant you want to pass on to another owner.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 11, 2010
I recently had a similar situation, although not section 8. Whenever the home was being shown, she would trash the place. A family member came to the rescue and the tenant was able to move.

With this situation, you should document the dates and times she has intimidated potential buyers/realtors and lied about the lawsuit. Consult with a RE Lawyer and voice your concerns. If in fact you have proof of the water waste, let the lawyer know about that as well.

I have a deep respect for tenants rights, and they usually cooperate with a sale, however just a few give tenants a bad rap.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Mar 9, 2013
You can simply wait out the section 8 lease and not renew it. Then raise her rent to the point that she can't afford it, and then evict for non payment of rent. Or evict her for violating the terms of the lease.

I am a real estate attorney and a broker. Call me for a free consultation.

Russell Davis, Esq.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Mar 8, 2013
What did you decide to do since you asked this question several years ago?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jan 26, 2013
Generally speaking, questions like this are great because they will cause anyone else going through something similar to think and seek appropriate resources to resolve that very issue, however, this question has been around for a couple of years, and I wonder if Trulia does anything to keep the forum current? Fri Jun 11 2010, 23:16 (What do you think?)
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 17, 2012
Question... is she violating any part of your landlord-tenant (rental) agreement? If so, proceed to do what the agreement, and all sensibilities tells you to do, but, NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE SELLING THE HOUSE, but because s/he has breached some aspect of the agreement at hand, and you're withing your contractual right to do. If not, hmmm, you'll probably need to talk with a landlord-tenant attorney who might be able to put the fear of God on that errant tenant... Good luck.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 17, 2012
All of the answers thus far are correct in some way or another, as well as informative. But if your property is a true SFR then it will invariability become the Buyers responsibility to evict and you really should not have to sell at too much of a discount. Remember you have rights as well, so good luck with this and if you would like some additional information please contact me at sfproperties<dot>net.
Web Reference: http://www.sfproperties.net
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Mar 16, 2011
Compounding the issue of handling a problem tenant, regardless of their monetary arrangements with you and the municipality through Section 8, is the fact that, as you know, San Francisco has a quirky, pro-tenant rent stabilization and arbitration board. Everyone who's given their opinion thus far is saying what you ought to be considering about your problem tenant and little about the selling part. I've had to deal with this sort of issue with numerous investors who, in some cases, were held hostage by the tenants' sometimes abusive posturing, particularly when the tenant knew that they would be "entitled" to some form of compensation. If you go to section 8, they'll tell you it isn't their problem. If you take the matter up with the "arbitration" aspect of the rent board, you may fair slightly better -- but don't risk it, you may do better by also getting that specialist attorney on your side. This process isn't one that will happen quickly, if you thought you would be selling sooner rather than later. However, the alternative is to make some adjustments to price, or give into the tenant's demands, or sell "subject to viewing the property" (after the fact) and let the new, fully informed and disclosure acknowledged buyer assume that responsibility at their own peril.

As you can see from the variety of responses from those who are attempting to orient you, there are no simple solutions to this type of situation. Bottom line, it may suit you to find a lawyer who will give you honest and pertinent advice, even if you wind up paying a hefty fee for this -- it'll potentially save you thousands later on.

Hope that helps. Oh, and check out how the tenant advocates see it, click on the link below.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 5, 2010
Hello Bill,

I understand your concern. I had a similiar problem with a property in Berkeley. I ended up taking the tenant to the Rent Control Board and we won. However, in the mean time, document everything that's happening and you can always have an offer written contingent upon inspection of said unit. Good luck :)

Kamal Randhawa
Broker
510-932-1066
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 18, 2010
Dear Bill,

First contact the rent board and document your call. Begin documenting ALL of your discussion with this tenant. Send her a letter by registered mail after talking to the rent board and tell her what they say. If this fails, call an attorney who specializes in landlord tenant matters. There are many good ones listed on my website. ALL will give you a free telephone call to discuss how they can help you. Make an appointment with one on Monday, or as Jed points out, "dump" this property by selling low and disclosing you have a Section 8 tenant. You will have to disclose your dealings with her no matter what. That is why you MUST keep track of any and all conversations and letters between the two of you.

Good luck,
Sally
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 12, 2010
Besides trying to do something legally which of course you need to talk to an attorney, is there something you can do to get the section 8 tenant on your side? Is there something, the tenant wants that can be used as a incentive if you get an accepted offer with a closing?

Maybe a carrot will work better than a stick in this situation.

Keith Manson
First Weber Group
Certified Distressed Property Expert
Metro Milwaukee

http://www.milwaukeebailout.com
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 12, 2010
Bill,

Tough situation. We have seen situations where well-intentioned property owners end up doing something that causes them grief later even though they were well-intentioned. You need to get an attorney who specializes in landlord/tenant law and go from there.

Best Regards,

Lance King/Owner-Managing Broker
lance@fixedrateproperties.com
415.722.5549
DRE# 01384425
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 12, 2010
Very tough situation with a tenant in San Francisco. I would consult an attorney. The contract with the tenant is most important and the starting point. Since I am a real estate broker I do not give legal advice. Whether you have a single family home, a condo or a house with an in-law unit will after the rights you have and your flexibility to act as an owner.
Happy to refer you to some good attorneys in San Francisco that specialize in these matters. Your realtor or their broker should also be well suited for this as well so start there!

Wish all the best!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 12, 2010
Great thoughts John. I think it would be worth a 1-2 hour meeting with a real estate attorney. I wish you good luck dealing with this woman.

Matt Puzz
Amerifirst Financial Inc.
602-410-9333
Lending in AZ, CA, NM
Web Reference: http://www.mattpuzz.com
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 11, 2010
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