Home Buying in New York>Question Details

Jessica, Home Buyer in 10308

What do I do? --My agent is Seller's agent!

Asked by Jessica, 10308 Tue Jun 21, 2011

I've had an agent showing me a few different properties. Many were not hers, but the house I fell in love with is her listing. She had mentioned from the get go that if I were interested in that house, she could not act as my agent, as she was the Seller's agent (and I agree that this is a conflict of interest.) She asked me to rate the houses we saw and tell her what we liked & didn't. I'm hesitant to list any Pros/Cons of her listing, because I feel like that gives her a lot of information during any bidding process we might go through. Do I go contact another agent now? Do I tell this agent that I am interested in the home? I'm not really sure what to do next. Any insight & advice would be greatly appreciated!

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HI Jessica,

You should certainly enlist a buyer's agent to help you. Contrary to what some have said, dual agency does have dangers and you need to be aware of them. The biggest danger is that the agent cannot give undivided loyalty. As a buyer you want someone that will solely represent your interests with no ditractions. As good as the seller's agent has been, enlist the help of a buyer's agent specialist. There are many in NYC that even use an Exclusive Buyer's Agent Agreement.

Also, just because someone brings you to a listing that is not theirs, does not make them a buyer's agent. The reality of the law is that the default position of all agents in NY State is to act as the seller's agent. Whether REBNY or agents associated with REBNY agree with that fact is moot. Make sure that you are protected and properly represented. Get a buyer's agent. If you need a referral for one, eIther ask a friend or this community and I am sure you will get many suggestions.

In terms of answering the agent's questions, do what feels comfortable. If you think it best to keep your own counsel then that is probably the right choice.

Please let me know if I can be of further service.

609 Kappock Street
Suite 1A
Bronx, NY 10463
(718) 432-5000 (Office)
(718) 432-2091 (Fax)
(917) 974-2600 (Cell)
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Hey Jessica, do you just want somebody to "treat your fairly" or to actually ADVOCATE for you and protect your interests? Anybody can treat you "fairly." You need somebody who will go beyond that.
4 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jun 23, 2011
This is a tough one, Jessica.

I think you need to decide what's more important - do you get this home at a price you can afford, or do you get the very best deal possible.

Here's the thing. You can go out and get a "hired gun" to negotiate on your behalf, but the fact is, that agent won't get paid unless you buy this listing. So it will be incredibly difficult for them to advise or even encourage you to "push it" in the negotiations.

Your "dual agent" may not get you the best deal, but she does have two masters with one similar goal - getting that deed transfered!

I don't know what the best answer is. But, maybe now, you do!

All the best,
4 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
The good news is that your Agent actually explained "agency" right from the start. She explained that she was the Sellers agent on her own listings. Hopefully she explained dual agency as well. This being the case and if dual agency is allowed in the state of NY you can go forward on putting in an offer on your agents listing with mutual consent from both you and the Seller. When working on your offer price ask the listing agent to show you sales of similar homes thereby allowing you the opportunity to be informed on pricing. The listing agent cannot give you a referral as far as a home inspector is concerned however you can check around your area to find the most qualified and reputable inspector on your own. If you have a good working relationship with this agent and your agent is experienced enough to work in a dual agency capacity then the transaction should go smoothly. Once and if you do get an accepted offer the lender you use will order an appraisal. This process will justify that the price that you are willing to pay for the home is verified by the lenders appraisal. A good home inspector will guide you on the overall condition of the home you are interested in. Have your lawyer read your Purchase and Sale Agreement before you sign anything. Don't sign anything without your lawyer first reviewing the documents. You should then be in great shape to go forward with the agent you have been out looking at houses with.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jul 1, 2011
I am shocked at the number of agents who see no problem with dual agency. I was once a seller in a dual agency transaction, and the agent presented me with an offer and then told me the buyer was willing to pay more if necessary. Before counter offering with a much higher offer, I asked if the buyer was looking at any other properties, and the agent told me no. The buyer of my property had no chance of any fair representation with that agent and they were completely clueless that they paid more than would have if they had their own agent. Even though I benefited from my agents bias towards me, in the back of my mind, I always wondered what she would have told the buyer if I was as open with my playing hand. Bottom line, avoid any form of dual representation and find yourself an agent who will only represent your interests!
3 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 24, 2011
>>Real-estate agents have been acting as dual agents for years with full disclosure and no hiccups. Thousands of deals have been closed in this way with both sides happy at the closing table. If the agent is experienced she will be able to navigate these waters with skill and still do a spectacular job for each side.

Wrong again.

Jessica, get your own agent, and NOT one in the same office. Find an agent, a true buyer's agent, who has NO relationship with the listing agent or the seller.

This SO simple. I feel sorry for buyers out there, especially in New York. Geez.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
>>-when there is full disclosure there is absolutely nothing wrong with dealing with the listing agent. I

Wrong, wrong, wrong......
3 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
>>Go for the house! If you trusted your agent enough to look at houses with her, you should trust her enough to purchase her listing through her. It's not a conflict of interest. She could probably get a better deal for you anyway.

Somebody needs to go back to real estate school.....
3 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
I would suggest you ask her to step aside not only from you but from the Seller as well. She ha learned things about you that she can share with her Sellers. In our office in this situation the office will assign a broker who know nothing about you to the Sellers and one who knows nothing about the Sellers to you (this is referred to as Designated Agency) The agnet who was working with you steps aside and pays each of the other agents who will handle all neogitions a referral fee out of the total commission. This way both Buyer and Seller has someone focused exclusively on thier needs.

Good Luck.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 29, 2011
Definitely hire your own agent to represent your interests fully! If you were a defendant in a court case, how well do you think you would do if the attorney represented both sides?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Here is how the Real Estate Board of NY interprets the laws of agency (that is what we are really talking about). The seller's agent always represents the seller. If you came to an open house off the street, that agent would be representing the seller. When an agent works with a buyer, they represent the buyer (by the way Shanna, in NYC we do not have the Exclusive Buyer's Agency Agreement). Your buyer's agent did the right thing in telling you that on that particular house, because it was her listing, she represents the seller. However, there is such a thing as dual agency and there is nothing wrong with it at all. Dual agency exists when your buyer's agent brings you to their own listing or another listing of their company. The company is the broker, and dual agency refers to listings of the brokerage of the agent, not only her own listings. I do not agree that it is a conflict of interest to act as a dual agent. A very skilled and experienced agent simply follows the guidelines for dual agency. They must act fairly to both parties and the only thing that is different is that there is not "undivided loyalty." What that means in a very practical sense is that they do not divulge to either side things that should be kept confidential. For example, they would not tell you the seller's confidential bottom number in a negotiation, nor would they tell the seller your top number. A skilled agent handles dual agency by a very real and c lear respect for the boundaries. If there was anything wrong with this, it would not be legal. The agents who are afriad of it generally lack the skill to do so. It is simply like being a mediator who is looking for a meeting of the minds. I have acted as a dual agent a number of times, with very happy parties all around. I have even acted as a dual agent where one party was an attorney.

Now that you have the facts on dual agency, the question is if you personally are comfortable with it. I would ask you if you believe your agent is skilled, experienced and an excellent negotiator, but since she has already said she will not be acting as a dual agent with you, what is generally done is that she would go to her Director/Broker, and they would assign another agent for the negotiating process. There has been no impropriety or reason to distrust her from the things you have said.

As far as wheher you should give the agent the feedback she is looking for in rating the houses you have seen, absolutely. She has dealt fairly with you, has done a lot of legwork and research, and needs to hear your views on what you have seen. Be honest about your preferences so she can help you purchase the home that best fits your needs. Your feedback is crucial. She is on your side.

Hope this helps.

Jenet Levy
Halstead Property, LLC
212 381-4268
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Listing agents work for the seller, not the buyer. If you hire the listing agent to represent you, that agent will now be working under dual agency.
Read this for your info.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
The agent absolutely did the right thing in disclosing the potential future conflict of interest from the very beginning. I agree with Jeanne and Barb on this matter. Now go get your house!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Jul 3, 2011
When I started out investing in properties I had a similar situation and it became quite uncomfortable... This is quite the dilema and why I am an Exclusive Buyer Agent and work only for the Buyer in any real estate transaction.

My suggestion to anyone looking to buy property is that they should always have someone that will only be working for them and never the Seller. This way there will never be a conflict of interest. HOWEVER... now that you are in this situation, you have a couple of options...

1. If you have signed an Agency Agreement, ask to be released from it so that you can contact another agent to represent you in this transaction.

2. Ask the Listing Agent to step aside from the negotiation as they have a lot of information about you that you might not want the Seller to know and they would be obligated to tell them as their agent.

3. If you are comfortable negotiating on your own or only with the assistance of your real estate attorney on contract details, allow the Listing Agent to work as a dual agent (if dual agency is allowed in NY). This will tie their hands from being able to assist with negotiations for either party. They will not be able to tell the Seller that they should hold out for more money or give them any information about you that you don't want to have shared.

I would suggest to anyone that they go ahead with #3, but only if they feel comfortable with negotiating on their own. The Agent will still be able to assist with coordinating and meeting contract dates once the contract has been signed.

Best of luck to you!
Tanya Donaghy
Solutions Realty
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Jun 30, 2011
WQhy not ask her what her office policy is when it comes to this exact situation? In my office if this situation arises, I step away from both Seller and Buyer and the company designates a Broker who knows nothing about the Seller to you the Buyer and someone who know nothing about you to the Seller. I"m out of the picture. Each of these agents is paid a full referal fee and when all the wrangling is done, including inspection issues etc, then and only then am I allowed back in for the closing. If their office doesn't work like this then you need to simply go find a buer broker and outside that office and make your offer.

Dual agency absolutely offers too many opportunities for a conflict of interest and any agent who says otherwise is simply blowing hot air. In dual agency there is only one person who is well represented and it's not the buyer or Seller, it's the agent.

Good Luck
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 24, 2011
In Michigan it is legal to both work as the sellers agent and the buyers agent. The home buyer must be notified and acknowledge in writing that he/she has been made aware of the dual agency. If in New York it is illegal to have a dual agency, I would maybe ask your agent to refere you to another agent to work with for this specific property only. This way your agent can still sell the home, but also get a referral fee from the referred agent. At the same time you are getting an agent that is working specifically for your best interest and you are still in a better position to buy the home with your original agent.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Even acting as a seller's agent he or she owes you fair and honest dealings. If you do not feel comfortable with the agent acting as a dual agent, have another agent represent you as a buyer's agent. It must be disclosed from the onset that it is their listing and you consenting to advanced dual agency and advanced designated dual agency in your initial meeting with an agent in New York.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
As long as you are in a state where dual representation is legal, you are fine. The onus is on the agent and the brokerage to make sure both parties are represented fairly. Your first step is to find out if dual (or limited dual) representation is legal in your state. If it is, I would buy the house that you truly want.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Dear Jessica,
Dual Agency is legal in some states as long as all parties are informed. Normally if it is not allowed your agent will appoint another person to represent your interests.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Whether disclosed dual agency is permitted in the state where this property is located, this agent has advised you that she cannot represent you as your agent if you want to buy one of her own listings. There are agents who, for sound business reasons, are choosing not to do dual agency with all the potential conflicts of interest that can arise, especially these days with so many distressed properties. Whatever the reason she is not going to act as both buyer's and seller's agent, you can choose how you wish to proceed. If you have a comfortable and trusting relationship with this agent and would wish to have her represent you if you purchased any listing other than one of hers, then you may decide to continue working with her. You will simply monitor your behavior when looking at any of her listings. Until you see a listing for the first time you have no idea if you are going to connect with that property or not. You can look at that property for the first time with her, but make no comments. If you really like it and think it is one you will pursue, you could then either ask her to refer you to another agent who can represent you exclusively in negotiations on that property or you should feel free to select any other agent of your choosing. The main criteria needs to be an agent with whom you feel confident in their ability and feel a good level of trust with them. In your question you say "the house I fell in love with is her listing" so I assume you have decided to end your search and you are ready to commit to this house. If that is the case, it is time for you to connect with an agent who can represent you exclusively.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Well, lots of answers. Most say you must find your own buyer's agent. I disagree. Everyone seems to be aware that a dual agency situation exists here. As long as all know the relationships, and the listing agent acts appropriately, not disclosing anything to seller that she may know about you and vice versa, there should be no problem. Seems she has been very honest which is all you want. The seller makes their decision and you make yours about the property, not the agent. I would ask for a break on the fees since the agent will be getting both quarters, legal in most states to negotiate and rebate fee portion. You could save money. Why hurt yourself?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Is this not allowed in New York? Cause in California, Agents can be for both buyer and seller. It'll be a smoother deal if you deal only with her and you could probably get a better deal, you still need to get the house appraised so you know your not going to be over paying.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Go for the house! If you trusted your agent enough to look at houses with her, you should trust her enough to purchase her listing through her. It's not a conflict of interest. She could probably get a better deal for you anyway.

Good luck!

1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Hi Jessica. I read your question and wanted to add my voice to the group. You have the right and are entitled to representation in a Real Estate transaction. Certainly a buyer's broker will make it easier. Someone below made the point that if you trusted her before, why not now? She is required to treat you honestly and fairly.
Proper Agency disclosure with informed consent comes into play. You have some options for buyer's broker, dual agency or no broker representation. You'll need an Attorney to purchase in NY State so they'll watch your legal interests before you sign any contract. If you need a referral, let me know.
You could proceed directly if you feel "good" about the agent. Ask about the agency disclosure form. I would however, suggest another broker help and represent your interests. Good luck.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
She can act as a DISCLOSED DUAL AGENT so long as the agreement is signed & DISCLOSED to BOTH PARTIES. To some this is a conflict of interest due to her fiduciary duties lie with the seller and not the buyer (you). If you are interested in her property, her broker can assign an agent with in her brokerage to act as your agent. The broker in itself is still a dual agency since they are responsible for their agents and a DISCLOSED DUAL AGENCY FOR MUST BE FILLED OUT UPON FIRST SUBSTANTIVE MEETING. Knowing this, you can obtain your own BUYER'S AGENT, TO REPRESENT YOUR BEST INTERESTS & NOT THE SELLERS.

I have been a dual agent on sales and, in my opinion, both parties are treated the same because certain info should not be relayed to the other, unless agreed upon on the front end. I hope this helps and if I can be of any assistance please feel free to contact me in any regards.

Brian Moore ~Licensed Real Estate Salesperson
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Hi Jessica, just want to say Jenet very well put. All of a sudden the sellers agents are not doing the right thing... this is an exciting happy occation not litigation matters-when there is full disclosure there is absolutely nothing wrong with dealing with the listing agent. If you have trusted this agent showing you other homes which by the way she also represented either the seller or broker representing the seller-why wouldn't you trust her now to do the right thing by you? whether her listing or someone elses. Just sayin'.... Terry K 718-614-3167 therese.korahais@elliman.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Real-estate agents have been acting as dual agents for years with full disclosure and no hiccups. Thousands of deals have been closed in this way with both sides happy at the closing table. If the agent is experienced she will be able to navigate these waters with skill and still do a spectacular job for each side. If you still feel uncomfortable, then by all means have another agent present the offer.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
I think it is always best when both parties have seperate representation. Other situtations can sometimes workout but each party with their own representation would make me have the most confidence. Good luck!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Jul 3, 2011
This is not legal advice. It is only an opinion. Answering only as an outside, objective agent, on an Agency Disclosure (or similar) form your agent can be Facilitator and objectively represent her seller and you, all parties having signed the form.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 2, 2011
She should file a transition to transaction broker form and then she could still work with you!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 2, 2011
The worry about tipping your hand too early is minimal. It seems you have already made the good choice to look for a buyers agent, and your current agent has the good moral compass to inform you ahead of time that property was her listing.

As to worried if you are going to be back cut by showing pros and cons. I would think of it as a time to begin negotiation on your purest points for the property. Liking the home is not an issue. If you were just an outside buyer with a buyers agent, when you put in an offer or request multiple showings, they already KNOW you like the home.

However, you need to be disciplined and maintain your honest clear goals for your purchase. This will be your best guide in negotiation time, as well as very helpful in having your buyers agent advocate for your behalf.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 2, 2011
I agree with James. Good luck!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 2, 2011
Absolutely tell her that the home you love is the home you want to buy. In my office we have a policy that in situations like this we draw in the broker or another associate to assist with the negotations so that all parties best interests are served. I suggest you discuss this with her as an option, but by all means, you go after the house that you love - that was the goal, you succeeded, now go get that house!!

Jeanne Feenick
Unwavering Commitment to Service
Web Reference: http://www.feenick.com
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 29, 2011
I think it's pretty clear. Let her know you like the house and go find your OWN agent!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jun 24, 2011
Actually, now that I re-read your recent post, listing agents says she "cannot represent your offer." That is a sign that she may not a good choice after all. Unless there is something in NY RE law that dictates such prohibition. Could be. But in NJ and CA dual agency is not uncommon, disclosed dual agency that is.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Your concerns are very valid. Best advise is to find yourself a Buyer's agent. She was honest in telling you that she represented the Seller. She sounds professional and she will understand and appreciate that you want your own representation. Once you find the Buyer's agent that you wish to work with, let them handle the negotiation and do not share too much information with the Seller's agent. It allows the power of negotiation to shift.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Hi all --Just to be clear again, using her as my agent for a house where she is representing the seller is not a possibility. She told me that she can not be our agent. And while we like her, and probably would not hesitate to take her on as our buyer's agent--we don't know her that well, we went looking at houses with her 1 day.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
I suggest you hire your own agent to represent you.
Joel Shapiro
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Hi Jessica,

The best thing you can do is research a good buyer's broker in your area and hire them. There is no cost to you to hire them and they can represent you in the best possible way to get you the home you want. Definitely tell them that you are interested in the home and would like them to represent you. You will also need a good real estate attorney.

Good luck!!

Ross Ellis
Licensed Real Estate Salesperson
Member of Real Estate Board of New York
Halstead Property, LLC
212.317.7828 direct
646.472.7875 fax
770 Lexington Avenue, 10th Floor
New York, NY 10065
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Hi, You should definitely retain the services of a Buyers Agent. I always tell customers that the sellers agent represents the sellers best interest, always. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a negotiation, just as a buyers agent can use what they know about the seller to help you.

Christopher Pagli
Licensed Associate Broker
Accredited Buyer Representative
GREEN Designated Agent
William Raveis Legends Realty Group
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 22, 2011
Hi Jessica, what makes you think you won't be treated fairly? If she has shown you the house- there is no reason to think she will not do the right thing all around. I sell most of my own listings...working for the sellers means doing the right thing for everyone involved. She has been hired to sell a house- get the best price with the best terms-period. If yours is the best offer-you should have an accepted offer, do an engineers inspection, and buy it if you are satisfied with the findings-or negotiate if there are any problems. My opinion Terry K 718-614-3167 cell or email me therese.korahais@elliman.com
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Hi Jessica,

Jennifer made a very good point. It is best to ask someone else in her company to represent your needs, or simply find a broker that you trust. Make sure to look for someone with experience in the marketplace. Ask for references etc. I am glad that the Seller's agent was honest with you, that shows she wants to do the right thing. You should not be concerned about the pros/cons, in the end it depends how good your or your agent's knowledge of the marketplace is and their negotiations skills.

Good luck and if you need any further assistance, don't hesitate to reach out.

With Regards,
Mukul Lalchandani
Platinum Properties
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Do what you feel comfortable doing.

If you want to put in an offer on the property she has the exclusive on, it would be smart to enlist another agent to help you negotiate a deal in your interest. She may be a nice woman but she doesn't have your interest in mind if you decide to put in an offer on her exclusive. So you may not get the best deal you could if you employed the services of another broker.

I think it's fine to continue to look at other properties with her provided she has not steered you towards purchasing her exclusive.

Let me know if I can help or give some more advice. 646-397-7516
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
You have a good and honest agent, she may elect another agent and give them a referral fee if you wish her to not lose all of the buyer's side, again a very good agent, and congratulations on your new home!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Thank you all for the quick responses & advice! To answer Shanna, I have not signed an Exclusive Buyers Agency with her. Also, she is the one who told me that she can not act as my agent if that is the property I would like. She showed me the property because I had seen it on Trulia and asked her to see it. Two friends of mine recently purchased a home and had recommended their agent to me--but I feel bad just going to someone else after she had shown me the property. Additionally, I would be concerned about using another agent in the office of the listing agent since it is in the best interest of that agency to get the most money for the home. I would like to bid below the asking price, and do not feel comfortable discussing that with the listing agent...
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
If you are comfortable and like your agent, no reason not to use her services; if however, you would prefer your own representation, have a discussion with your agent, contact his/her broker owner and ask to be assigned another agent from within to handle the transaction.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Hi Jessica,

In CA, we can do Dual Agencies (Realtor represents both buyer and seller). However, I personally don't like to do them due to the conflict of interest issue. Do you have a signed Exclusive Buyers Agency with her? If you do, you have to cancel that before you can 'hire' another Realtor. Maybe you could see if another agent in her Brokerage would be willing to act as your agent - with her agreeing, of course. I don't understand why she showed you the house if she 'couldn't' sell it to you - especially if you have a signed Exclusive Buyers Agency with her? If there is no way she is going to represent you if you want to make an offer on the property, exclude that property from the Pros/Cons list. Just let her know you really like the house and want to make an offer (if you do). If you do submit an offer with a different agent acting as your Buyers Agent, make sure you let them know the Listing Agent showed you the property and was your Buyers Agent at the time as there may be a commission issue since she was the procuring reason you saw the home in the first place.

Good luck.

Shanna Rogers
SR Realty
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Hi Jessica
You should tell her you are interested in the home and that you will be contacting another agent to represent you in the transaction. As for telling her what you like and don't like and what impact that wil have on the bidding process...ultimately you will bid what you are comfortable paying for the home . Just because you may LOVE certain aspects does not mean that you are going to pay more than you feel comfortable paying. Good luck with your purchase.
Jennifer Roberts
Halstead Property, LLC
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Her duties/loyalty is to the seller so I would recommend consulting a real estate agent you trust and have them represent/advise you through the remainder of the process, before you submit or sign anything.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
I would tell her exactly what you've said here... that you're interested in her property, and therefore you'd like to have your own buyer's agent.

Possibly she can refer someone to you.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jun 21, 2011
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in Evanston, IL
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