I've mentioned this here before, but I'm seeing some people on this link defending Redfin, and their arguments are not what I experienced. I was the listing agent and Redfin represented the Buyer of my listing. The agent never saw the house, never even met her clients(!) and never attended any inspections. She did not negotiate for her buyers; they offered near asking price for a listing that had been
on the market for a month and a half. She wrote the contract offering to buy the house as-is and offering to pay for all inspections, including pest. When my sellers decided they wanted to keep the valuable dining room chandelier, she didn't ask for compensation for her buyers, she just said, "Ok". At the final
walkthrough, which she did not attend, the buyers were excited to see that my sellers had replaced the chandelier with a very nice fixture. Apparently the Redfin agent told them they would have to buy their own.
Lastly, on the day of closing, the Redfin agent asked me if I could deliver the keys to her buyers! (I couldn't,
so they had to drive 1 hour out of their way to pick them up at my office.) These poor first-time buyers didn't save money by going with Redfin, they lost money. Not only that, they were completely on their own.

"Redfin provides the same service as a traditional real estate agent, except we don't go to the house. "

Pure Comedy Gold!

I think the big key is for consumers to understand the difference between "Discount" and "Full Service" I think that using the word discount confuses people. After all a discount is not a bad thing. The problem is it insinuates the same thing for less money. I think the discussion is better served using the words Limited Service versus Full Service.
There are full service firms that charge less than others. There are limited service firms that charge more than others.

There are full service firms that in reality only offer limited services and there are limited service firms that offer a good service.

So to unilaterally say one is better over the other is not doing your homework.
It really boils down to this. Do you want good service or the rock bottom price? Either is OK.

I personally am a value shopper not a price shopper. Meaning I don’t buy an item because it is the cheapest one. I carefully consider the features and benefits compared to the price and then I make a decision and buy first what I want then the best price for it.

There are many business models that agencies follow. The good news is, the level of service you want and the price you pay for that service is up to you. If you have ample time to sell your home, are willing to sell at a lower price, and are prepared to do much of the work yourself, perhaps a limited service broker is for you. If you want a high level of service and want your home to sell in the shortest time for the best possible price, I recomend a full service broker.

Be sure to interview several agents from different companies before you decide who to partner with. Many agents claim to be full service, but don't do a whole lot more than a limited service broker. Make that the agent you employ is aware of all of your expectations and is able to meet them.

Cynthia explained what she offers. This is what I offer:

As a full service broker, I provide the highest level of service possible. When I list your home, I take the long view. I don't just want offers, I want your home to close. My sellers have a pre-listing inspection and repair any defects. My company allows me to provide an approved list of vendors and service providers for repairs. We set up the appointments for you, get estimates, and are present during repairs if you cannot be. If you are unable or unwilling to make the repairs recomended by the inspector, we still are able to use the inspection to our advantage. We use it to adjust our price and prepare ourselves and buyers for any issues that will pertain to closing.

I personally provide and pay for a home warranty. This protects you during the listing period, and is a very attractive selling point. Just like the inevetability of your car going haywire as soon as the last payment is made, your dishwasher will rebel and ants will set up shop in your HVAC unit (literally blowing it up) as soon as you list your home. It happened to me and I don't want it to happen to you.

I stage every home. It could be as simple as removing clutter or rearranging the furniture, or as all encompasing to providing furniture and leasing artwork.

If you have relocated, I check on your home.

I am present at all showings, whenever possible.

My office caravans your property, so that every agent in my office knows your home.

I hold realtor lunches with prizes (we are suckers for a free meal) so that other agents in the area know and remember your home.

I conduct a multi-faceted marketing campaign: Internet, print media, direct mail, e-mai, and person to person contact. Everyone I know and most people I don't know all about your home.

I follow up on all showings and get responses, even if I have to personally go visit the buyer's agent. This provides us with the information we need to make any adjustments or address any issues.

I meet with you once a week. At this time we go over a new market analysis to make sure we are still competitive. We can address any questions or concerns you may have. I find this very effective since many agents dissappear unless they are notified of a problem or an offer. You, of course, can contact me any time with any questions or concerns, big or small.

I encourage the buyer's agent to personally present all offers directly to you in my presence. This way there is no confusion as to what is being offered. This is also a courtesey to the buyer's agent so that they know their offer has been presented and presented properly. Sad to say, but some dishonest listing agents will hold an offer in hopes of getting one of their own. This practice eliminates that possibility.

I evaluate all offers with you. I contact the buyer's lender to be sure they are approved for the loan and reccomend a high binder and proof of funds for a cash sale. I pull a CLUE report to be sure that the buyer hasn't filed many home owner's insurance claims that may prevent them from being able to insure the property, and therefore make them unable to purchase it. I do my best to determine the motivation of the buyer. I try to find out if they are relocating due to retirement, a new job, new baby, ect. All of this helps me help you negotiate the best price and terms, and to assure that the buyer is actually ready, willing, and able to purchase.

I continue to market your home until it closes, and reccomend we take back ups regardless of how strong a contract appears.

I assist you with your relocation, anywhere. If you are moving to a new area, I keep in close contact with you and your agent to be sure you are getting the service you deserve.

My services are not inexpesive.

I have no problem with limited service brokers. I feel that there is a place for them in the market, and that I am no more in competition with them than the Dollar Store is in competition with Neiman Marcus. I"m not being catty, both are respectable and profitable businesses, but they are not the same. So it is with limited service and full service broker.

If someone chooses to work with a Redfin agent, they will not really be working with anyone. They will fill out their own paperwork on the internet, the "agent' will never actually have seen the home (which is a requirement in California) and they will not protect you from lawsuits nor protect your interest. Buying a home is a huge investment and has many liability issues associated, mainly with disclosure. If someone would rather get a small rebate than be fully represented, that is a choice they make, but I would never recommend it. It's about the same as if you wanted a suit tailored...you could send it off to someone you've never seen with your measurements and hope it comes back fitting you...or you could go to a local tailor who can be sure the suit fits perfectly and you can go back to that tailor if there is a problem later.

"Redfin provides the same service as a traditional real estate agent, except we don't go to the house;"

Boy, if this isin't an example of getting what you pay for in Real Estate, I do not know what is.

Hi Rebecca,

I work at Redfin, but I am not a real estate agent. However, there are a couple consistent things we hear from our agents about why they left traditional brokerages to work at Redfin – it is the future of real estate, and they wanted to work in a pressure-free environment focused on customer service, not sales.

Personally, I came to work at Redfin to try to make a difference for consumers and work with smart, fun people. That said, Redfin is the perfect fit for me. We’re giving consumers a choice in how they buy and sell real estate, and empowering buyers with the information they need to make an informed decision – they get a blend of the latest technology and counsel from experienced, local agents. And I get to work with and learn from tons of talented people. Our agents aren’t new kids on the block. They have a wealth of knowledge to share with clients and co-workers.

Regards,
Cynthia

As a buyer in SF, I worked with 'full service' agents but I felt like I was working for them! I inspected the 'for sales' at open houses. On offers, we initialed and e-mailed counter offers. My agent didn't get to present to the seller, only to the seller's agent. I arranged my own financing. I've bought homes previously.
Why shouldn't I get paid for that?
So I used Redfin, got prompt telephone and e-mail follow up and no arm twisting BS.

In response to Pjw's experience with Redfin, I hope everything continues to go well for you. One word of caution, though, a buyer often has no idea whether they received competent representation until it is time to sell. While Redfin does not operate in my market, I have listed my share of homes where the (now)seller turned out to be blissfully unaware of poor purchasing decisions until I splash cold water on them. Overpaying, poor location, etc. are bugaboos that are not always immediately apparent. As I said, though, I wish any buyer the best of luck, regardless of whom you have chosen to represent you.

I'm currently buying a home - in escrow with Redfin's help (thanks Ernesto and Angela!) - and am very impressed with the service. I am not familiar with their offering to sellers.

I would say to anyone considering using Redfin, check all the aspects of your service yourself and don't rely on the misconceptions in this topic trail and other bulletin boards. Some of the statements (such as, you have to fill out all your offer paperwork yourself) are completely wrong.

For buyers, if you need lots of advice on the right home/neighborhood for you, then you probably want a more traditional agent. But if you don't want someone to drive you around and try to persuade you to buy totally unsuitable houses, if you are happy to do lots of legwork, make up your own mind and call them when you're ready to make the offer, if you are organized and decisive, if the idea of pocketing a 5 figure rebate is attractive, I suspect you will be very happy.

Yes, you are pretty much on your own until you find the house you want, but from that moment we have felt totally supported and comfortable with Redfin. And when making a purchase of this magnitude, I like the fact that the person advising me gets paid a salary plus bonus based on customer satisfaction, not a direct amount related to how quickly we close a deal and for how much. How can any agent give impartial advice when their income depends on you being the winning bidder?

From my experience so far, Redfin deserve to be extremely successful and I wish them well.

Funny how things go in circles..........drink bottled water.....no, stop, it’s environmentally unfriendly. Eat chicken........no, stop....only the free range. And, so goes it with the travel agents.

I just received an email from a travel agency who is a member of our local chamber, and the subject line is........”The Return of the Travel Agent” The email referenced SmartMoney (May 2007) and USA Today (March 2007) and quoted customer displeasure with online booking sites, and stated full service agents had the upper hand in problem resolution. I received this on Friday, July 27th.

Anyway, Ruth, I have no problem with any discount real estate firm, as long as they are not piggybacking on the full service agent to do the work for which they are collecting compensation. My beef with Redfin is the expectation of full pay for not doing the job as a buyers agent. I think the seller should not have to pay Redfin the same amount that the seller would pay a full service buyers agent. I am applying principles of solid work ethic, honest pay for honest work. I am waiting for a seller to decline full payment to Redfin predicated on failure to perform the work contracted.

I believe consumers are entitled to make choices and certainly respect yours. I don’t know the other firms you mentioned.

I don’t foresee the displacement of the full service real estate agent, because the transaction is too lengthy and intensive. As an industry, we are in the midst of change, and that will continue. There are a few bumps and swerves along the travels, but I am optimistic that as an industry we will grow to be better through our upcoming changes. We could use a little bit of tweaking.

I saw Redfin on 60 Minutes or one of those shows. Here in Chicago, I used BuySide Realty which I am guessing is the same sort of model. One of the articles interviewing the founders of BuySide Realty said they started it when they got fed up with the dreadful service their Realtor was providing. They thought their original target market would be people trying to save money. But it turns out their target market is actually the higher end, savvy client that has become dissatisfied with agents. My experience with BuySide was excellent.

When I went to sell the home, I interviewed several agents/agencies and I used one of the best local full service offices. The service was a joke! After they did more harm than good, I fired them and went with a flat rate MLS listing service. As the saying goes, "If you want something done right you have to do it yourself." I am getting the same level of internet exposure as I did with the full service agency, I'm controlling the information given to potential buyers and buyer's agents and someone is always in the office available to help me out.

I have to agree with the Tax analogy. I use a tax program the majority of the time because it does the job I need it to do. However, there is the occasion when I am in over my head and will hire an accountant. Excellent Realtors are worth their commission. However, Real Estate Agents are going the way of the Travel Agents and Stock Brokers. Only the good will survive and the rest of the market will be using companies like Redfin, BuySide, and Flat Rate Listing services. When is the last time any of you used a travel agent? Times they are a changing!

Redfin raises a lot of hackles in the real estate biz because they dare to attack the holy grail of the 6% commission. Personally, I think they bring some much-needed choice to the business. The anecdotes I hear about Redfin are just that -- anecdotes, usually 2nd or 3rd person ones, too. As long as people go into a business relationship with Redfin with a full understanding of what Redfin will and won't do, and of what the consumer's responsibilities are in the deal, and of what the risks and benefits are, I say let them have at it!

I do my taxes myself, knowing full well that I may be leaving money on the table. A "full service" tax accountant can try to use FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) to get me to change my ways, but the reality is that's just what I do. I might well decide to use a professional tax accountant one of these days, but I won't do so because of a FUD campaign.

Redfin should be discounting or rebating their 'services', because they are far from a full-service company! As in anything, you get what you pay for...
There is no 'standard' commission for real estate services, btw--there are many laws which prohibit anything which could be interpreted as 'price fixing'.
The services of a true Real Estate professional include so many behind-the-scenes tasks, including the marketing, consulting, negotiating, and overseeing all of the transactional details--a 'buy here-pay here' type of website could never hope to offer anything in comparison.

Redfin is perfect for the educated buyer, and ensures that buyers no longer have to pay a premium when many of the legwork is actually done by the buyer rather than an agent.

I'm working with Ernesto, one of their most experienced agents. He knows the area better than our last full service agent, and we delve into the nitty gritty of fractional financing and the idea of living near the J-Church with ease.

I understand that RedFin is a disruptive innovation for buyers agents. I'm a current homeowner, I'm looking for properties within 2 miles of my current residence, and I'm a member of a self-managed HOA.

I simply can't understand why I should give a buyer's agent 16K when I find the properties, can use my graduate eduction to read a disclosures agreement, and know the neighborhood.

Home searching is democratized, and I'm grateful for the trend.

On the seller's side, the agents should welcome the trend- when I go to a property, it's because I've done the research, discussed with my spouse, and I am serious about the place, whereas when I went with my last agent, half of the properties were not appealing.

I will likely sell my home with a full service agent. I'm in complete agreement that the value is there on this side of the equation.

I will use the 16K cash back I get on my new home purchase to offset the ouch factor of the 6% of the fee i will give to the seller's agent I select this month.
I will also really probe what exactly the agent will do for us- will we have staging, will we have broker's tours, what is the availability? Many of you sound like very passionate and professional agents, and this trend will ensure that your less able competition is weaned out, while you all remain the cream of the crop! True service speaks for itself.....and you will all do fine!

Redfin refunds the buyer what, 66%? I don't see much wrong with that, especially if the buyer found the property and did most the work. I mean if I got a phone call saying, "Hey, Mr. Garver, we'd like you to put our name on an offer at this price for this property because we know the market here and feel comfortable doing most the leg work. We are only going to pay you 1% however, which comes out to roughly 10k for this home. Are you ok with that?" I'd have an offer written up before they could hang up.

Dear Cranky,

I'm cranky too, but that's another story.
This might be helpful to you. It's the KRON news story comparing Redfin to full-service brokerages: I think it gives a decent overview of the different services offered: the link is below.

Once you've made up your mind which level of service fits your needs, you MUST interview the individual agent thoroughly. There are good agents and there are bad agents, whether you're looking into a discount brokerage or a full service broker. It's up to you to make sure yours is a good one and that you feel comfortable working with that person. I believe this is why there are so many responses to your question. There are folks out there who have had wonderful and poor service from both types of brokers. That’s why so many successful agents get their clients from referrals. New buyers tend to first ask a friend if they know a great agent.

I think Redfin is great! Their website smokes out "ready to buy" buyers. Yahoo! my listings get sold.

Full service agents have absolutely nothing to worry about if they take the process at face value.

Know that they are here, educate yourself how their process works, use it to your advantage and adapt.

This is not rocket science and we are not doing brain surgery here.

Redfin educates Buyers how to use Real Estate agents to find homes on their own and save money. Buyers don't know that they really don't save anything. The seller pays the commission. Har-har-har! Don't let yourself be duped.

If a Buyer comes into your office and you are an educated Realtor, qualify the Buyer just as we always have get them qualified and get a commitment out of that buyer before you ever put them in your car!

They buy from you or they don't get into your Mercedes or Cadillac or Hummer. By the way, if you are not driving one of those, you should be...

If you get them in your office, you have had more contact with that buyer than any Redfin agent ever did.

Get your mindset right and quit worying about Redfin.

Do Not show a house to an uncommited , unqualified Buyer. If a prospect is working with Redfin, you can get that out of them when you meet with them, and establish a relationship with them, and then sell them. The Buyer will welcome your professionalism and Redfin is now out of the picture. If they paid something to Redfin... reimburse them.

DO NOT get in your car and run out and show them the property because they called off the sign or the internet. Get back to the basics! Be professional... be a Realtor... be a salesman... be successful!

What is redfin? I did 140 transactions last year and haven't heard of this one time.

You should pay redfin the same amount as you would a secretary. And, what about the 75% rebate ? Is that legal-who pays the taxes on that ? Maybe we could just eliminate all jobs and go to gov. sevices.
Regards, An agent. who loves her job.

The Redfin model piggybacks on the full service agent and achieves their economy in a way that abuses the seller who has offered compensation for a full service buyers agent. The seller offers a commission to a buyers' agent for producing, representing, and servicing a buyer. When the buyers' agent does not fulfill that "work for hire" contract, the seller is entitled to pay a reduced fee. I suggest that sellers offer a cooperative compensation to buyers' agents appropriate to the work and services performed. I suggest that sellers extend the cooperative compensation to the buyers agent predicated upon a list of work and services provided. As a sellers agent, I provide a written proposal outlining what I will do for the seller to market their property and represent them. If I fail to provide that, the seller could demand a release from the listing for my failure to perform. Likewise, why can a seller not provide a list of duties for which the buyer agent is being offered cooperative compensation, and withhold or adjust payment if services are not performed in accordance with the offer for hire? To perform less work and duties than for which you are paid, is a violation of the seller.

I fully support any Broker’s right to set their own fee schedule and have no opposition to discount brokerage. I support honest work, honest pay.

Deborah Madey - Broker
Peninsula Realty Group, Inc.
(732) 530-7755
Deborah@PeninsulaFirst.com

Disclaimer: I work at Redfin.

I just wanted to clarify a couple things in this lively discussion:
1. We have local agents: Redfin has local agents in each market, so they are familiar with the area and it's quirks and positives.
2. We provide a CMA: On average, Redfin agents handle dozens of deals each month, so they are up to speed on home prices; they also prepare a comparative market analysis to ensure a house is priced right.
3. We call every customer: Every customer who submits an offer or listing will receive a phone call within four hours, during business hours. However, if an offer needs to be presented that evenign and the customer gives us a heads up, we'll work as late as needed to get it done.
4. You work with real people: Every customer has a dedicated agent and support team.
5. We go to inspections: It is required for a Redfin representative to attend every inspection. This is what our field agents do all day, so they know what to look for.

Redfin provides the same service as a traditional real estate agent, except we don't go to the house; when you are buying, we provide the technology to help you find a home and then handle everything from offer to close; when selling, we also provide a pricing consultation, MLS access. a yard-sign and lock-box, and marketing assistance.

I hope this helps clear up a couple things. Our Forums have even more information, or feel free to email me at cynthia.pang (at) redfin.com.

Regards,
Cynthia Pang

The experience and knowledge of your agent is what you are missing with Redfin. A buyer might not necessarily know the goods and bads of a property. Part of my job working with a buyer is to take their blinders off and let them know anything that might affect their salability. They may love the master suite being upstairs, but it doesn't sell well in our market. They may not realize that a sewage treatment facility is nearby. They might not know that flight patterns often take airplanes close in to a certain listing. That's part of my job, is to ensure that they do understand the implications, not to make the choice for them, but to counsel them. Redfin in contrast is an order taker. Would you like fries with that house?

With a seller it's especially important to counsel them to minimize the issues that would harm resale. Colors, clutter, atmosphere are all important to the sale of a home. Redfin never enters your home to provide any guidance. I don't believe they provide follow up calls as well.

As I've written elsewhere, Redfin's a great company, in some regards. It might be useful to ask their agents what they offer you besides access and a rebate.

There's this belief among today's homebuyers that all of the useful information used to be bottled up behind the broker's lock & key, and that all of their value was in protecting this very proprietary information.

Which, simply, isn't at all true.

Even before the Internet, we went out of our way to make homes findable by the general public. Even back then, we put signs in front of the house, arrows on street corners pointing to the house, bought advertising in newspapers and shoppers, held open houses, and would sit down with anybody who asked to go over whatever latest compilation of listing information we had - listing books, photo cards, whatever.

Well, technology has improved, and real estate brokerages have fallen over one another in a race to get listing information to the public. Redfin's website is considered among the best, if not the best, website for home searches in the country.

Which doesn't mean that their agents are necessarily the "best" in their communities, although they may well be. But that's important.

Here in Seattle, I know a wonderful Redfin agent, who has confessed to me that they don't really know very much about houses. Or condos. They open the door for buyers, and either they or someone else gets the contract written, and the story ends.

I've done hundreds of deals over fifteen years in the biz, and I've evaluated thousands and thousands of homes for condition, livability, suitability for a variety of lifestyles, potential for renovation and expansion - this knowledge and experience has real value for many people. And it's quite possible that I've learned a little bit about negotiations along the line, too.

The question that only you can answer yourself is, is foregoing that level of knowledge in an agent worth shaving a point or two off the deal? - Fri Dec 11 2009, 16:38
You may well be missing something, but we're probably not going to be able to figure out exactly what in this forum.

One hint is that homes are not commodities, and can not be adequately evaluated with even a couple of hundred data points. Evaluation of homes extends beyond the basic room count, price negotiation and structural inspection, to include architecture and interior design elements, livability issues such as siting, natural light, privacy, landscape, interior traffic flow, exposure and outlook.

People who consider themselves qualified to evaluate such items as mechanical systems, finishes, quality of installation, often believe themselves to have a complete understanding of homes; I disagree.

But at the end of your story, you're the one who has to live in the place, and if you think that you create better value by hiring yourself as a selling agent instead of a GOOD buyer's agent, even considering your relative lack of experience, then nothing anybody says is likely to change that.

I had a great experience in the city of San Francisco. I saved over $13,000 and the agent was very responsive and very helpful through the whole search process and offer/counter offers. The admin was diligent and thorough during the lead up to closing and the deal closed with zero probems.
It was superb value and I will use them again if I sell or buy.
The real estate office Realtor I first used did everything by e-mail, fax and imaging. I found the properties I was interested in by going to open houses then telling the agent what I wanted to do. Then they faxed and e-mailed back and forth.
What's the difference? $13,000 and no difference in service

Don't use Redfin...or any other "on-line broker" to purchase real estate!

Several companies are attempting to provide discount real estate brokerage services on-line which I think makes sense on its face. However, no one has found an on line business model that competes with the value provided by working with a local agent from a good reputable firm.

For example, Redfin combs the mls for updated information on listing however it isn't always timely. Just yesterday, another agent was reporting to her client that a property had gone into contract and Redfin listed the property as still on the market.

Use a local agent who comes highly recommended! It was save you time, energy, and a huge potential pitfalls.

Who is redfin? Never heard of these guys.

Hi Cranky,
Redfin is a dangerous route to take if you are a buyer. There is no due dilligance done on your behalf. A full service buyer agent should not only help you find a property, but to see it, touch it, smell it and walk you through the inspections, go to the the town hall to pull documents to make sure you know what you are buying. It is my understanding that Redfin does none of the above. You get what you pay for!

Hey, I am late coming to the party. Here are my thoughts. There is enough business for everyone. There are some people that Redfin business model fit perfectly. Others need full service. I am a full service agent and I am proud to be! They say that things are changing. The truth is, these limited service agencies have been around for a long time. They show up in markets that have enough business to support them. They need high volume to make their money. When the market slows, they move on to other areas. Without high volume they cannot stay afloat! This is just my opinion.

One more important thing I forgot to mention in my previous post; the buyers Redfin agent had the close of escrow date on a Monday, so her clients loan had to fund on a Friday and they paid interest over the weekend.

Thnaks for the reply Cynthia. What is your position there? Successful full service Realtors would not be successful unless they were able to focus on and deliver amazing customer service. Customer service and sales are not mutually exclusive. Redfin agents are partially paid through commission, it's just that they get a salary so they don't have to generate new buisness or depend on referals from happy clients in the way that "traditional" agents do.

I think it would be wonderful if Redfin agents were giving information to their clients, however the general experience has been that they are sending clients out to get information from other agents to return to them in exchange for "cash back"...

I'm glad you love your job and your company, that is important. I do feel that choice is important in the market place.

I as a traditional agent feel that nothing can compare to a full service, full time, educated, local agent who knows the local market intimately.

I tried to post a follow-up to my previous recommendation for Redfin, but I'm not sure what happened to it. In brief, the deal has closed, our (large) Redfin rebate is in the bank and we couldn't be more pleased with our purchase. I'm sure many buyers would prefer a closer agent relationship, but if you educate yourself on the process and are buying in a neighborhood you know well, then a 5-figure check is hard to beat. We were fully supported by Ernesto and Angela during escrow, and believe Redfin deserve to do extremely well.

Hi cranky. I am an agent and would love the chance to answer your question. The answer just depends on the homeowner. If they are happy with only receiving certain services then they should go with Redfin. If they would like additional services then go with a brokerage more known. But consider this if the amount of actual cash you will net is important to you, it is not always wise to go with a discount brokerage. Do you expect the brokerage that doesn't fight for their own wages fight for your own pocket?

After buying and selling 3 previous home (in various states) through the traditional model, I sold my home through a service similar to Redfin and contrary to what most Real Estate Agents seem to be saying here, there is a lot to be said for doing some of the work yourself to say on commissions.

Just for the record I am not "...unwilling to move out their nasty couch or fix or paint their unit to get the best offer." Nor am I "penny wise, pound foolish". This is evidenced by our ability to sell our home in 93 days (Feb - April 2008) when other homes on our street were languishing for literally years through one traditional listing after another.

When we purchased we were forced to use a traditional agent due to traditional agents unwillingness to show homes to someone without an agent and unwilling to sign on with them. We went through 3 agents without finding the kind of dedication those who posted here claim to have and finally just resorted to searching out properties on our own and having her set up the appointments. She was equally useless during the frustrating process of negotiating buying a foreclosure (even though supposedly a "specialist").

Our experience confirms our long held feeling that there is little value to be gained by paying huge commissions.

I meant seller not sellers agent.

Is there a built in disclaimer like there are in the listing agreements that say buyers agent will not negotiate on buyers behalf and buyers agents will not be held responsiblility should something go wrong after the sale! If my name is on the contract I am responsible for the sale. What if the buyer ends up walking away from the sale and the sellers agents want to sue the buyer the buyers agent and the buyers agent brokerage? Sounds a bit risky to me.

Way to tell it Patrick. You are the MAN!

So let me understand all of this; The "traditional", "Full-Service" whatever you wish to call the rest of the brokerage community exist to offer fees to the likes of Redfin, Zip, et al, so you folks can then GIVE BACK these fees to your Buyers therefore justifying your business model? So, if we all follow Redfin's example and leave the market to them what will they rebate?
This is the fallacy of the discouner’s business model. These companies wish to rebate and dub themselves a "consumer friendly" "Anti-Trust busting" real estate company--but how much do you wish to give away to stay in business? If the DOJ decided tomorrow all fees for the sale of real estate would be locked in at 2% of the sales price how much would Redfin rebate then? How much would the discounters discount? What do you think this industry would look like in a few years if not months? What type of sales person would be drawn to this industry? How much would you guys give away then? Who would wish to cooperate with ANY other agent at that fee? The business system it takes to entail one to do 50 or 100+ deals would collapse under the lack of income. Mom and pops would fold, and the larger, craftier companies would hire employees and try and control the entire market. Your vaunted choice would cease to exist.
That all being said--alternative business models are as American as Apple Pie and Halloween! Just do me a favor--don't go running to the DOJ complaining "anti-trust" because the market rejects you.
And lastly, what are we all getting worked up about. Last time I looked Zip Realty's market share equates to their name! And the good folks at Redfin on their web site boast “In 2007, Redfin represented over 1,00 satisfied clients” and they boast offices in Baltimore, Boston, Los Angeles, Orange County, Seattle, San Diego, Washtington,D.C. AND San Francisco. Now I don’t know about you but that works out to about 125 deals in each City. They also claim to rebate at least $10,000 per “Satisfied Client”. That’s 10 deals a month. You guys can do the math!!

Hi Cranky. I am getting into the picture a little bit late on this thread. I haven't had the chance to read all the answers here and I apologize ahead of time if anything I say here may have already been mentioned by someone else.
I believe one of the things that makes Redfin stand out from the crowd is that they offer rebates to their buyer clients. It seems to me that Redfin's success is therefore largely dependent on those brokerages that are negotiating the higher commissions with their sellers so that they can offer a reasonable commission to the buyer's agent. If agents only offered low commissions to the buyer's agents, Redfin would have nothing to give back to its buyers. So, Redfin's existence is much more dependent on other businesses than the traditional brokerages are.
My hope is that Redfin takes care of all its clients as I don't like hearing stories of incompetent and inadequate representation. There's too much at stake when people buy and sell one of the biggest assets they will ever have and bad stories give all of us a bad reputation.

I have a few questions about using a service like Redfin. First of all I am a full service Real Estate agent. I have extensive website marketing tools. I can send my clients listings myself, have them automatically sent based on the individual buyer's criteria or give my buyers access to listing searches on their own. So they can shop in their pj's until they find things they are interested in at which point I can take them to the homes personally for them to make their final decisions. Many traditional agents have the same tools. So what's so special about Redfin or others like them having internet search? It sounds to me like they just leave out the legwork & let the selling agent take care of that part?
Secondly, I can say that I currently have some first time buyers, we close on their home tomorrow, that originally went through a referral company that offered them a hefty rebate after the sale from the commission referral the buyer's agent would pay them. They weren't pleased with the agent, a traditional full service agent, that the referral company paired them with & they ultimately found me. As a traditional agent I can't give rebates, it's against the law in our state & against ethical rules & they understood that. They have told me that after all the details that had to be worked out with their purchase they feel that I was worth the rebate they gave up & then some. They know that I negotiated an excellent deal for them & handled situations & problems that may well have gotten overwhelming & lost them the home they wanted.
I feel that my job as a full service Real Estate agent is, first & foremost, one of relationship building & I don't believe that is possible when dealing exclusively on the internet. And I still don't understand how one buys a home without actually seeing it!!!
I often deal with out of town clients & start their search on the internet, locals also, but ultimately it's meeting face to face, building trust & seeing future home possibilities personally! Maybe investors who are going solely on the bottom line don't care about seeing the house they are purchasing, but it the buyer is going to actually live there........
I just don't think that these types of services will ever put the traditional agent model out of business. I do agree that perhaps the truly good traditional RE agents will be the ones left standing, but I think that's the case regardless of the presence of these internet models.

Purchasing a home is more than a paper trail. There is emotion involved on both the seller and the buyer end. Agents wear many hats during a transaction and many times buyers and sellers do not want to even talk because of personal issues. The agent representing the buyer or the seller must have knowledge of needs and resources to help the transaction flow smoothly The agent must go above and beyond just finding a home ;to service the parties to the transaction; from the beginning to the close. Writing a contract takes 30 min maximun time. It is all the " how can I help you "and providing resources to both buyer and seller that makes a happy close . Buying a home is emotional and a computer will never change that handshake and comfort level with a caring and helpful agent.

To Cynthia, My question to you is why are you working for Redfin as opposed to a full service Broker?

We don't have Redfin here in Ann Arbor MI, but I believe in competition and the free market. Agents need to add value to attract business - and the good ones do! If the concept works (Redfin), the market and agents will have to adjust.

In Oregon, the Redfin business model isn't even legal! This is the result of consumer protection and ethics laws that frown upon kickbacks.

But as with any limited representation model - you get what you pay for! Buyer [and seller] beware.....

Hi, I work as an agent in San Fran and have never met a Redfin agent... I work closely with my clients and regularly visit new properties as they come on the market- I typically see the props first because I know the neighborhoods, markets & agent involved... I couple that with my ability to negotiate and represent my clients to help get them what they want! Some of these Redfin responses seem to imply that an "agent" should get credit for returning phone calls or being present at inspections... not even the tip of the iceberg! I specialize in West Portal & unit buildings... trust me, there's so much more involved than meets the eye in successfully assisting clients. Meet me for coffee and we can develop a strategy for you!

There is a new website launching August 1st called eperks.com A Real estate agent can buy their zipcode (exclusively if available) and they can rebate part of the referral fee back to their clients. I'm going to give it a try. I'm a FULL service agent though. They are offering a money back guarantee if you don't get your ROI within 8 months. Worth a try I think.

Oops! The HTML didn't come through ... the link to Redfin Forums is http://forums.redfin.com

Use qualified Realtor agents and broker ... rather than just on line real estate agents ... Realtors subscribe to the Realtor Code of Ethics, which can be and is enforced by the National Association of Realtors and local affilities.

As Realtors® we pledge to always promote and protect interests of our clients and to treat all parties honestly.

Harrison K. Long, Realtor agent and broker, Coldwell Banker Previews

Ryan, I congratulate you on your Redfin experience. I touched on this in previous comments on this general thread which has several strands. A local broker familiar with the area might have negotiated a 50k reduction in price rendering your 13 k rebate meaningless. I have zero knowlege of your area or market. I merely make the point the savings on the commission may not be the big benefit they are taken to be. If you are very smart about real estate, self motivated, willing to do a lot of research; then, a redfin type situation is probably great for you. If you know nothing of the area, do not understand real estate and do not want to learn about it. I hope you get a good BUYER's, in this case, agent who will go out and fight for you. Buyers and Sellers should not get overly caught up in the commission part of the transaction, it is important, but, their real bottom line is far more important and the picture is not always what it seems.

In your case Ryan, I hope the whole deal was great and I wish you all the best. Every format works for someone, but no format works for everyone.

We agree with James and recommend that you should not use Redfin or an online broker to help you buy or sell or home or property.

Why? Because Realtor agents will provide you with face to face consultation about value of your property and then help you sell it at the highest price possible, through maximum exposure, not just online marketing. Your Realtor agent will be your support person and group during time of sale of your home. Your Realtor agent will look out for your interest and advocate for you at most every step of the way ... until closing of escrow.

No online broker will be able to complete for the quality of service provided by an experienced Realtor agent in your area.

Harrison K. Long, Realtor and broker, Coldwell Banker Previews, Irvine, CA

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