Just wanted to let you guys know, that he also brought the sellers in on the "disagreement". When we were finishing up the inspection and re-negotiating and such, he said that he informed the sellers on the situation and they agreed that he should get 4%!?! I was really hoping for smooth sailing the rest of the way, thankfully it is almost over.

If you had a buyer broker agreement with the initial agent then he/she will be entitled to a commission, procuring cause. If not, unfortunate lesson for the losing agent.

No offense, but I believe you're being overly sensitive here. if the seller's agent is too overbearing and/or confrontational for Kelly and/or the agent, then I believe Kelly's agent made the right call: to protect Kelly. Several other already spoke earlier stating that Kelly needn't be brought into their discussion of whether or not to co-broke. Perhaps, Kelly's agent could have expressed the idea differently; nevertheless, place yourself into that agent's shoes and think of how frustrated (and possibly frank) you'd be--before judging--especially if this sale is his/her first sale in a while.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most definitely, when a buyer is in such a situation and asks if it will cause a problem, I always say no. Because it won't cause a problem with the buyer. Whether or not it will cause a problem between myself and the other agent is really not their concern.

When I have a situation with an ineffective or unresponsive agent, I sometimes tell the buyer that I have found that agent to be a bit unresponsive, and they should not take that out on the seller. To go into the details is IMO unprofessional.

"What do you mean your agent is going to try to set up separate closings?"

Most likely Kelly's agent will try to structure the closing so that s/he and Kelly don't have to meet the seller and seller's agent face to face at closing. This is a pretty common arrangement that many investors--especially non-local ones--use to handle closing.

"I don’t know what the purpose was of ‘your’ agent telling you that this other agent tries to “bully” people out of their commission. That kind of talk definitely has no place in an agent/buyer relationship."

No offense, but I believe you're being overly sensitive here. if the seller's agent is too overbearing and/or confrontational for Kelly and/or the agent, then I believe Kelly's agent made the right call: to protect Kelly. Several other already spoke earlier stating that Kelly needn't be brought into their discussion of whether or not to co-broke. Perhaps, Kelly's agent could have expressed the idea differently; nevertheless, place yourself into that agent's shoes and think of how frustrated (and possibly frank) you'd be--before judging--especially if this sale is his/her first sale in a while.

Thank you for answering my question Kelly. For my own experience, and this is only my own experience, there are times when a buyer calls me directly to see one of my listings and I already have appointments scheduled, but run over to show it because they want to see it. Especially “late on a Sunday afternoon.” Many times I can’t devote more time to them at that point because I already have appointments, and will only show that one house rather than spending a lot of time with them and showing other homes that might fit their needs, too. He probably already had appointments or may have even been finished with his appointments and had a family commitment scheduled.

Why did you call the listing agent and not ‘your’ agent in the first place? You say you didn’t know the protocol. Didn’t ‘your’ agent explain to you that they could show you ANY house? Had you signed a buyer agent agreement with ‘your’ agent or was this just an agent you were working with? They may have been able to spend a lot of time with you at that moment, and the listing agent wouldn’t have even been at the showing, probably.

What do you mean your agent is going to try to set up separate closings?

I don’t know what the purpose was of ‘your’ agent telling you that this other agent tries to “bully” people out of their commission. That kind of talk definitely has no place in an agent/buyer relationship.

I wanted to answer J R. I was not working with him. I called on a Sunday afternoon and asked if I could see the house. He showed it to me that one time. My agent took me back a few days later to get a better look around, partially because I felt rushed with him and partially because she wanted a feel for the property in case we got into a highest and best offer situation. By the way this agent is also a broker. I originally was hoping the brokers could work it out, but found out that he was the broker. Hopefully the situation is resolved and we can proceed with a home purchase that SHOULD be pleasant. Thanks to all that answered. Some of you really helped calm my nerves while we were waiting on the agreement to come back.

He drew the offer out for a week and we finally got the agreement. I let him show it to me because I didn't know it was an issue. I would not feel comfortable with dual agency anyhow and thought this was standard protocol. I believed at the time that is why he did not try to establish an agency with me. He called my agent one day being very nice and then sent a couple of nasty emails. Then he was nice again. I'm not sure what his problem is, maybe personal issues or something or he is bi-polar. My agent heard from others that he tries to frequently bully the commision out of every other agent he works with. I am just glad we got the house. By the way our agent is going to try to set up seperate closings, and I do not think bad of realtors just because of him!

HIs attitude is deplorable......If he is a Realtor....we have a problem....he has a duty to treat his client and the general buying publlic with respect.

It sounds like he missed out......he assumed incorrectly about you..now he lost out on getting both sides.

I guess he could harm the deal..but that would be messing with his fiduciary duty to seller.

De Redman,
We are in Texas. If there is a problem and this is a MLS listing the board will determine who gets how much. We have ethics and Real Estate Laws to follow. The buyer and seller come before the agent in Texas.
You did read the last part of the question - By the way in Texas.- did you not.
Margaret

In Indiana this agent could harm the deal. He was the one that showed you the home first so he could argue he was the procuring cause and win. it does not matter that he only spent 20 minutes with you, he showed you the house first. Now, will he risk losing the deal (his other 3%) because he is the Listing agent, not sure?

I guess my question to you would be why did you contact another agent after he took the time to meet you there? How much "time" did this other agent spend with you (you found the house) ? I understand you don't care for the Listing agent but you called him first and he took the time out of his schedule to show you the home.

If you like the home and want it, let the two Realtors work out an arrangement they both can live with and you just concentrate on getting the house you want.

De Redman

Can he harm your chances of getting this deal? Sure, I suppose he can... but I think it's unlikely.

Interesting thread. Actually, I'm glad the dialogue veered a little to the right and left.

Kelly,
We have gotten so off the subject. The question was can he harm this deal. The answer is NO not as to the real estate laws, and the answer is Yes since he does not follow them.
Has your offer been presented?
That is what need to be done first, the broker needs to be notified if you beleive the agents are still fighting.
Margaret

Hey y'all
In Texas, as stated before by Texas agents, the first time agents meet with or start working with a customer, they are to give them the Information about Brokerage Services. They are to explain agency and representation to that person.
This is to protect the buyer from not knowing that if they work with the listing agent and spill all their beans so to say to the listing agent that the listing agent is to tell the seller all.
Let us not even bother about the facts of this particular sitiaution. This agent then will be called to show their listings many times we hope. Supposedly when they meet the customer they will hopefully explain agency so that the person will know that they are talking to a sellers agent, If they like that agent and are knowledgeable about their situation them may want that person to act as an intermediary, and will sign to that . Then they may say find they will work with that office but want the broker to assign another agent to act as an intermediary for them. Then again the customer may decide that they want to hire their own representation.
If they decide on their own representation they do not have to leave immediately and find one as the listing agent has an agreement with the owner to do what they can to sell the home and they should not throw out customers that want their agency rights
I have lost commissions myself in my own office by not dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's when some one said they want to represent themselves as they were - builders or such and I was the second agent in office. Such is life. Smile,Explain, Smile and hopefully fill out paper work.
It is not up to the customer to understand Agency before they meet with the agent it is up to the agent to explain it.
We do have different laws in Texas than other states.

The listing agent, in this case, should have asked Kelly if she was working with an agent. Since he didn't, he can't really complain when he finds out that she is. (even if she contracted with that agent after the fact).

As some have pointed out... the listings agent's main concern, at this point, should be to sell the listing, and stop fretting over the loss of the buyer's side of the commission. He should stop throwing attitude... learn to ask about representation each and every time. Period.

I agree, that this is not an issue that Kelly need worry about, and it should be handled quietly and professionally behind closed doors as this is an "internal" Realtor issue, and does not (or should not) involve the client / public.

I am absolutely AMAZED (not really) by the number of "civilian" posters who know all about how long it takes to show a home. When I take a buyer out to 5 or 6 properties, I allow @ 1/2 hour from house to house, including travel time. If two homes are side by side, they get about @1/2 hour allocated to the both of them. Generally a buyer will want to either "go back" to see one the same day, or comes back another day to take a second look. I did an OH once, I had a couple come in, sign my register, and basically not talk to me for the whole 10 minutes they were in the house. They mentioned they had their house on the market with an agent, that was that. They zipped in and out. The next day they called me, made an offer, and we put a deal together in about an hour. They had no engineer inspection, and didn't even do a walk through. They came in once to measure for carpet. It was the fastest and easiest sale I ever made, and I handled both sides. I subsequently found out their agent was mad because they hadn't used her, and another agent in my office was mad because SHE had them out, too. So there are no rules regarding how long one must be shown a house, or who "should" be getting the offer. It's great though that we have so many "experienced" consumers here, who all miraculously have the same opion!

Hi Kelly, Just wondering if there's any update? We'd love to hear how this turns out!

Sorry but I cannot resist this one!

Boo Hoo to the bummed out agent that casually showed the property. As a sales professional (not in real estate) but full commissioned. If you do not take the time to do your job professionally then please step out of the way and let a person that actually cares to make a living in the industry and wants to help do their job to the best of their ability take over. I always interview my clients and getting to know the person, their wants and needs is a crucial part in selling any product. Please realtors do not flame me because I will know that you are the unprofessional type! As a sale’s professional I do not try to "steal" a part of another salespersons sweat equity in the customer just to satisfy my wants and desires, aka GREED.

Just look at the top performers in your industry that are "loved" by their clients. They do not have to lie, cheat or steal to get where they are. I know some of you bottom feeders will still have the petty jealousy of not getting their share, well earn your share. It took me 5 years of watching and learning how it is done to get it right.

Kelly, now for your Realtor that you "knew", they should have never brought you into the mix so I will put that person in the very unprofessional side. So enjoy the house if you get it. Too bad you cannot send both of the loser Agents packing. I know you cannot but that is how I feel.

I've had people spend only 15-20 mins looking at a house the first time. They come back and spend an hour or more, but 20 minutes is not exactly a bums rush. Kelly said she'd been working with him, and to me that implies they went out more than once. If he didn't think she was a potential buyer I doubt he'd have "worked" with her. I think Jefferson just has a problem with him getting "the whole 6 percent". Kelly, how do you know the commisison was 6%?

Lynn,

Please note - this is not a personal attack but I strongly disagree. Ok - the guy "spent 20 minutes". SO WHAT?! It's his listing - he should be willing to spend loads of time on it. His arrogance and demeanor is the direct cause of this situation. Kelly is the CUSTOMER. Period. He apparently thinks the rules don't apply to him? I have no sympathy whatsoever.

If he had the slightest bit of Sales 101 and Dale Carnegie training, then this particular thread would not exist, except for Kelly asking something like, "is it ok for me to use the same agent as the seller" - instead of what we have here.

Heck with him! That is HIS LESSON LEARNED. And next time perhaps he won' t throw away a few thousand dollars in double commission.

It also is not Kelly's issue to resolve. It is one that belongs to her buyers agent. And one that she need not have to deal with any further.

WOW sorry to hear about this however did not appear you had a buyers agreement HOWEVER listing agent did show the property 20 minutes vested. Perhaps your buyers agent can have reduced commission since never showed property to you. Suggestion resolve the issue.


Lynn A. Crosby ~ National Featured Realtor

The intermediary relationship does NOT allow agents to 'represent" the seller and buyer, that would imply dual agency which is not allowed in Texas. The broker becomes the intermediary and may appoint an agent to facilitate the transaction.

You see how this would be a conflict of interest and why it's frowned upon when practiced. Buyers should have their own agent and sellers should have their own agent in order to be impartial and able to give advice favoring the party.

Sounds like things are working out for your deal Kelly. Keep us updated.

Naima
214-289-8555
Naima@Sumner-Realty.com

Hi Kelly,
In Texas, we can do what is called an Intermediary transaction, which means that the same agent CAN represent the buyer and the seller. We do not require two agents on a real estate sale. HOWEVER, if both of agents do their job properly, you would be given a form called Information About Brokerage Services - both at your first viewing of the home by the listing agent and by the agent who wrote up your offer. This IABS would have been explained to you, and you would not have been surprised how things work in Texas. Feathers are ruffled, and the brokers for both agents will likely be the ones to work out how this gets handled. But, if both agents are Realtors (meaning they are members of the National Association of Realtors and members of a state/local real estate association), then they took a vow to uphold the Code of Ethics that puts your needs ahead of their own and they will find a way not to hinder your ability to buy the house.

It isn't your job to know how things work here in Texas. It is the agent's job to ask questions and inform you, and to use the required IABS form and a Buyer's Representation Agreement to clearly define who represents the buyer.

All the best,
Ronda Allen, C.P.M., Realtor
The Keith Dobbs Team at RE/MAX Dallas Suburbs

Yes, Rob, there is a lesson for buyers and sellers here. There is also a lesson for REALTORS here. You must have that agency discussion with everyone who comes to your open houses, and you must ask if they are working with an agent. We had this very discussion in our office meeting today.

I did not sign anything with him. It never went further than just me looking around the house for 15 to 20 min. No real conversation. He never asked if I was using another agent. He has sinced called my agent now being very nice. He said that there were two other offers and one fell through on the financing. He also said that so far our offer was the best. He was going to contact the seller and ask if they wanted to go into highest and best offer or accept ours. That was this morning and we have heard nothing yet.

Kelly,
Did the listing agent show you a form called Information About Brokerage Services and did you sigh it?
This does not obligate you to anything - this is required by TREC for the agent to do so that you know that he represents the Seller and that you may have him be an intermediary or you may acquire your own agent.
First if he did not show you this form the discussion is over - he is already out of compliance .
Two if he did show you the form did he ask if you wanted him to be an intermediary? He can not be with out the permission in writing from both buyer and seller, otherwise he represents the seller only.
This person is only hurting them selves. It would have been nice to tell the person that you were going to use someone else if you knew it at the time, Listing agents should still show.

Agents can be like cops in a way, they both might get rubbed the way when lack of loyalty and respect from the public becomes in question. Many questions between the agents might come into play such as wether you signed a buyers agreement with your original agent. The listing agent did put in time out of the day to show the property to a person being represented by another agent, this has caused riffs between Realtors. I'd have to be an attorney, and know the full scope of the situation to say you won't be affected so I can't say that. Listing agents also have a duty to save themselves by asking a caller if they are working with an agent. That one question may have saved a lot of problems.

One lesson to buyers and sellers that fits the occassion. If you are working with a Realtor, do not talk to another Realtor or have them show you a house. Even though a client/Realtor relationship is no marriage before God, we still consider it cheating.

Kelly,

Sorry for the situation.
Who knows what will happen. I hope you get the house and the agents work it out between themselves and keep you and seller out of any dispute they have.
The best idea is to have your agent show you any home you are interested in. That way there are no mixed signals or any misunderstandings. You'll probably get better service on both sides in that case. You agent will be able to better serve you by seeing the house, the neighborhood, better helping you with comps and appropriate offers, etc.

Nothing regarding the agents quarrel over commission should affect your purchase of the property. In fact, it might not even be considered ethical for there to be an active discussion about this during the deal, this should be a question for after the closing between the parties sharing (or not sharing) the commission. The Listing Agent should be considering his/her client(s), the current owners, and thier interest in selling the property and how this apparent attack on the Agent that wrote the offer affects your interest in completing the deal on thier home. You Agent should be thinking about your comfort in completing this deal and reducing the strife, in other words, a buffer between you and any problems that might affect you. This issue isn't one that affects you at all. As agents, the clients problems are our problems, not the other way around.

Go through with the deal if its what's best for your family, the agents will work out thier differences.

I don't think you're going to lose the home - I just think that the 2 agents are likely to have a big argument...
Did the agent that wrote up the offer even show you the property?

He never asked me if I was working with another agent. I was under the impression that it was becoming standard protocol to have a listing agent and a buyers agent in most transactions. So I did not forsee a problem.

The listing agent never even asked for my name or contact info. In fact he was telling me about the extra marketing that he was about to do for the home. The next day he posted more pics on HAR.com or MLS. He did not treat me as a serious buyer. I know this sounds heartless, so don't get me wrong, but my main concern is that we are going to lose the house because of this.

Kelly
It sounds like you need to sit down with your Realtor and have them explain how the business works.
The short story is that you can have any agent write the offer, however if the listing agent can prove that his marketing and sign brought you in, he might get BOTH sides of the transaction and the Realtor that wrote the offer. ...ZIP.

Get the facts.

I've no idea on TX law. One question though - did your "new buyers agent" KNOW that you saw it with the listing agent first? If yes then you are likely fine - since she presumably knows the presiding law that would affect things in TX. But ... that's just a guess using common sense and logic.

Look at the situation in a different light. Do you want the Listing agent to deal Honestly and in good faith for this deal? The second question is did your Agent ( friend) ask you if you were working with another agent? As a Professional I can tell when a customer has viewed a home with out me, I always ask what the situation is before preparing a deal on paper. Why do I proceed this way, because I understand Procuring Cause to mean the one who took the action to make the sale. The listing broker Took the Listed, Put The Listing in the MLS, Advertised and Showed the property, the only thing that was not done was the contract only because someone was not completely honest with the Agent. I am very sure that the Listing Agent was more then happy to sit down and write up a contract to complete the deal. As for the Agent the wrote up you deal they performed only on step in many that are required to close a deal. They can avoid this situation by asking if you were working with another agent and how did you get to preview this MLS Listing?

As for you losing the Deal , my answer is most likely no.
Chuck Mixon, Realtor
Keyes Company
Cutler Bay , FL
ChuckSellsMiami.com

In NJ, the following would be the case: the listing agent showed you the house and was therefore the procuring cause of your offer. The agent that didn't show you the house and just submitted the offer is not owed a commission as they are not the cause of you buying the house as they didn't show it to you - even retrospectively, by the sound of it.