@ John C. in response to John Sactig's response, his statement is true but incorrect at the same time but only as far as semantics go.

Let me explain by breaking down what has been said and clear up the semantics of it all...

"Please note that when dealing with 'short-sales' properties/offers, you the buyer are working directly with the seller (owner) of the property."

Although completely true, it should be added that you wouldn't be working exclusively with the seller (owner), you would also have to work with the sellers bank or lien holders in addition and supply them with any documents they need and negotiate with them on price AFTER the seller (owner) has already accepted an offer. Basically, there are additional parties involved and all need to work together to make the sale possible.

"The seller has the no say in what the bank will accept"

Although correct, the bank will never see the offer unless the seller first accepts it and executes the contract. The reason being is they are still the owners of the house and have complete say in what offer they choose to accept or decline. Keep in mind subject to offers which all short sales are, means the offer is contingent upon the banks acceptance of the offer as well. The bank has to accept the offer as well as the seller in order for you to have a deal.

That said, the 2nd part of your comment below is incorrect.
"Therefore, no 'the bank' does not directly counter, accept or decline any offers."

in addition, your comment:
"That said, the seller has a monetary responsibility to the bank (note holder) and may have to counter or decline based on guidelines."

Although the first half of that is true, the seller does have a monetary responsibility, the concept of a short sale itself is a way for the seller (owner) to wiggle out of it but not completely. The BANK or Lien holders are the ones that set the guidelines which they will set or accept or decline a short sale offer because they have the right to decide how much money they will accept as a loss, NOT the seller (owner).

I agree with John S. that ANY offer should be accepted and the reason is simple, to get the short sale process moving. Even if that offer is not accepted, the bank will begin reviewing the file and perhaps even get a counter offer. The first buyer making that offer probably wont stick around until the end anyway because many agents don't counsel their clients well enough to prepare them for a long wait and going long periods of time without any updates from the lien holder or banks negotiator. Getting a negotiator itself can take a while to have one assigned, they're all back logged.

"This post is a perfect example for buyers. Look for a Realtor that understands the short sale process."
I have to agree, because so many people with a little knowledge about the process but little to no experience handling them rarely succeed in closing short sales.

Therefore "it is very important that you list your property with a Realtor that has short sale experience."
In addition it is also very helpful if the agent working with the buyer have enough short sale knowledge so they can consult and prep their clients to stay in it for the long haul or not at all. Even when they do, I see buyers still backing out after waiting only a month or two without an acceptance or offer declination.

Good Luck...

I also recommend reading one of my older posts here http://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/No_one_answered_by_…

It may be difficult for buyers and sellers to navigate not only through a difficult process but with so many eager agents out there with little or no experience with successfully closing short sales injecting their 2 cents being so positive about the process and details they may have only heard about thru blogs, a 1 hour short sale class or thru other agents only further muddying up the waters for transactions where the home is under water.

The difficult part is not if you should get an agent that specializes in short sales, they all will tell you they do in hopes of getting a listing. The problem is determining which agents have actually been successful closing a lot of these transactions and truly know and under stand the in and outs of the process.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing when it comes to short sale transactions as you can probably see why by now.

Banks do NOT negotiate - they just move on to the next offer. Asset management dept are the ones who handle these properties and are not the easy to deal with. They think nothing of waiting three weeks to accept or deny an offer. They just wait for the highest. Thi is why you need to make your "Highest and Best offer" the first time.

My opinion they simply disapprove

After a BPO is done yes sometimes and some banks do counter offer just to get a little more the buyer can counter or stick it out

Sorry John C. You are way, way off the mark here with this post.

"Please note that when dealing with 'short-sales' properties/offers, you the buyer are working directly with the seller (owner) of the property. Therefore, no 'the bank' does not directly counter, accept or decline any offers. That said, the seller has a monetary responsibility to the bank (note holder) and may have to counter or decline based on guidelines."


Completey wrong. The seller has the no say in what the bank will accept on a short sale property. This is why all offers should just be accepted. Period. This does not affect the seller, the BANK is the one that will decide how much to lose.

This post is a perfect example for buyers. Look for a Realtor that understands the short sale process.

if you are thinking about speaking to a Realtor regarding listing your home in a short sale situation, it is very important that you list your propery with a Realtor that has short sale experience. Otherwise you may decline offers that would be acceptable to the bank.

Banks are supposed to approve/disapprove what the seller has negotiated but they will counter at times to get to the number they need. They can try to get brokers to lower their commission and try to trim all the other costs associated with selling. It depends a great deal on the property and the bank.

Yes, many times they do counter, But legally the can't. The are NOT the owners of the property, and have no legal right to negotiate the terms of the sale. BUT, at the same time, the sale doesn't happen without their approval first. Here is a great resourse:

The banks approval/ diapproval depends on what the BPO/ appraisal comes in at. If it comes in higher than the offer, they will counter to the higher price.

I currently have a short sale where thay approved at the offer price and offer terms. There is no counter offer from the first. I am now waiting for a response from the 2nd lien holder on the property. I doubt they will counter on the price. They may ask for more money to them from the first lienholder. We will know in two weeks.

Meena Gujral
Help-U-Sell Achievers Realty
40083 Mission Blvd
Fremont, Ca. 94539
510-279-9580

Most will counter, even though they shouldn't. Usually most will tell you what dollar amount they need to net. I have now compiled a list of all bank phone number and loss mitigation department contact numbers and faxes.

Yes step two of the short sale process a Phase two negotiator will be assigned to the transaction. After the ordered fair market appraisal has been finished. Negotiations will start at this time to agree on a selling price. It will then be sent to the investors for price approval.

We have worked several of these transactions and the buyer is always the winner in this deal.

my experience they will counter.

Dear short-sale buyer:

Please note that when dealing with 'short-sales' properties/offers, you the buyer are working directly with the seller (owner) of the property. Therefore, no 'the bank' does not directly counter, accept or decline any offers. That said, the seller has a monetary responsibility to the bank (note holder) and may have to counter or decline based on guidelines. Ask your local Realtor about the comps for your area. Know the numbers. Know what the 'hot' price per sq. foot is, etc. And ask your Realtor and lenders about the current/usual time-lines for short-sale purchases in your area—then be prepared to watch those dates change. When it comes to short-sales, time-lines are very fuzzy things.

Now in a REO purchase you the buyer are dealing directly with the bank/asset manager, and it is unlikely you will ever see a counter from that entity. Depending on the specific RE market most banks are sitting on MULTIPLE offers. It's more likely that they will choose your offer based on it's merits (price) and it's likely ability to close, or move quickly to the next offer. Next! In my local market area it is NOT uncommon for banks to have offers in the teens or greater.

Do your best to stay claim, and breathe! Be it a short-sale or REO keep your eyes on the prize, that being a very good to excellent real estate investment.

Be well and good fortune!

Hi Buyer, it might differ from bank to bank but most institutions we had to deal with will either approve it as submitted (offered purchase price) or say that short sale can be approved at the higher number (it is not quite a counter, they are just letting seller know what is their bottom line) . At that point seller will counter back with that new number to the buyer and its up to the buyer to either accept or decline...at this point there is no obligation on your side.

Hope it helps,

Dmitri Stupachenko, REALTOR®

Banks do not communicate with the Buyers or the Buyers Agent. They communicate only with the Sellers, and will communicate with the Seller's Listing Agent if they receive written permission from the Sellers to do so. Typically, the Listing Agent and Seller determine the offer or offers they want the bank to review. The bank may have several review people in the chain to review the offer. The bank has guidelines to follow. In some instances the bank will respond to an offer that if certain items in the offer are adjusted (such as closing costs amounts) the offer will be acceptable. They communicate this only to the Listing Agent. For the most part, short sales are a slow process. Most Buyers are not aware of this unless they have a top notch Buying Agent that has educated them on the process. I've been involved in short sales in as little as 2 months to some that have gone 6 months. It all depends on the bank you are dealing with.

They will most certainly counter offer. It just depends on the offer. I normally recommend you offer near asking price since most banks do a great deal of market analysis before listing with agent.

Typically banks don't have time do counter offer their staff work approx. 1000 properties for each member if you "fit in box " GREAT if you don't your sales offer is tossed.

We recommend to any of our buyers if you submit an offer keep moving not all offers you would receive a response.

If a response average 7-10 working days do you have time to wait?

National Featured Realtor and Consultant, Texas Mortgage Loan Officer, Credit Repair Lecturer
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Lynn911

They approve, counter or reject the SELLER, not the buyer. All negotiations with the bank are between seller and bank. As the buyer you only negotiate with the seller.

In my experience, I have found that lenders DO sometimes counter a short sale offer, however, if I have done my job rights as the listing agent, they approve it 98% of the time.

Sometimes they counter but there really is no sense in trying to figure out how they operate, there is no standard operating procedures in place for them and if there is they ain't sharing how it works.

It pretty much seems their standards change from negotiator to negotiator and ultimately from their underwriters who apparently have the ultimate say.

Recently one of my short sales (I represented the buyer) was under contract for oh... 10 months, the bank always kept requesting updated documents, yada..yada... the usual. Then the negotiator wanted us to write a new contract and lower the price! Yes lower the price... Sure!

About two weeks later they denied the short sale because the selllers tax returns didn't have the same address as the house (the seller hasn't been living there for over a year! No mortgage fraud involved)

Well we tried to convey that message to the negotiator (along with the sellers agent) but they just kept telling us. A denial is a denial and you can't change that regardless of the reason and refused to even look at any further proof that would prove that.

Basically short sales are hit or miss and this is the reason why so many people are getting frustrated with them and I'm noticing avoiding them all together unless they have been pre-approved. Meaning another offer where the buyer dropped out of from waiting was finally approved and now the listing agent has a very short window to find another buyer to fill their shoes.

If there have been multiple offers at one time, the banks want the one that nets them the highest amount. After that it seems to depend on the bank. The bank could ask that you continue to send offers until they accept one but I have found that each time you send one, the bank starts the process all over again. Others will not look at more than one offer at a time.
I have had banks flat out deny an offer which may have nothing to do with the amount and more to do with the seller and whether they qualify for a short sale or whether the investor of the loan wants to play. In many cases, if it has to do with the amount of the loss they are taking, the banks are known to come back and say they need to "NET" a specific amount. You could very well call this "countering the offer".

It depends on the bank.

Some with only accept or deny approval.

Some will counter offer... it is true they don't have authority to negotiate they can say to the seller - we will approve at this price and the seller can go back to the buyer with that information.

Banks ask for your highest and best offer. They iether accept or move on.

Technically a banks does not have the authority to counteroffer. . their role in a short sale transaction is to accept or reject .. nothing else.
The homeowner is the only one authorized to counter offer by a ratified contract

Do all banks follow this rule. .
no

Yes Banks will counter offer on short sales. All depends on your rapport with the bank negociator as well.

Lender will send an appraiser or an Agent to determine the market value of the home.

Then they will demand market value or a certain % of market value depending on the lender.
Condition of property will play a role as well.

Banks are trying to mitigate and control the loss.

Its very important to work with a knowledgable Real Estate Professional when dealing with these types of transactions.

We have 10yrs experience handling short sales.

If you are a Seller, Buyer, lien holder, or Realtor feel free to contact me to discuss further.

Paul Gallucci
800-50-9215

What would the seller know about what the bank will accept on the first bid? Or what would they know about what the bank will accept at all? Is it not the idea to get out of the property ASAP and stop the bleeding?

Why would the seller haggle with a potential buyer when they have no idea what they are haggling for?
Submit the offer to the bank.. The seller has MINIMAL say or control, and the point is to sell the property as fast as it can go.

I learned this on the first short sale I was involved with.. the other agent came in $95,000 under asking price.. the seller was all upset, I was leery and said.. hhmm.. I'm not too sure about this, to which the other agent said.. hey, what do YOU care? let the bank decide... and guess what? The bank ran their numbers and took the $ within 4 days and closed three weeks later. Done. Same result as if the seller got all insulted and tried to negotiate for the bank.. Why make the hassle? GET THE OFFER TO THE BANK.

I am finding that some agents are not properly representing to the client(the seller of the property) their options. I agree that all offers should be presented to the lender for approval, however, the seller(the owner of the property) has the right to negotiate the offer and not merely accept the first bid. In the stream of events, the bank might look more favorably at the offer if they have the flow of the bid/ counter bid, etc. as well as the Listing Agent's documentation as to time on the market, listing price, showing activity and the last price listed at which the potential buyer began negotiations. The lender has no clue as to what has occurred throughout the listing. They are "banking" on an accurate BPO to determine value, however every home has a price point in which the property is worth. Prove your position to the lender with documentation.

In closing, each and every offer, should be negotiated to it's fullest, the lender should receive any and all negotiated offers for approval or denial and in some cases their bottom will be revealed!

The only Fact: "None of this is written in stone"

And in reality, the post below is an interpretation of the process and not the actual process.
Each case is different and the banks that handle them are different. The two posts contradict each other in the process. In one, the agent tells the seller to negotiate the offer and the other post the agent states to send the first offer into the bank immediately. What happened to the “you are the owner and you are in the driver’s seat” negotiating?

Even if the seller has more than one loan, there is still an answer to wait from the bank(s) and yes, short sales with more than one loan are also presented to each bank by the sellers attorney. It is still up to the banks to accept or deny the proposed payoff of each respective loan. So all offers should be sent to the banks to decide what is acceptable, low or not.

Fact: Technically, the seller owns the home. But, in the real world of real estate short sales, the homeowner is usually at the end of the rope and the reality of not having a say in what is an acceptable offer is the real world.

Fact: The seller has no say in what is an acceptable loss to the bank (s) that they owe. The bank(s) decides what is acceptable. For the seller to not forward all offers to the bank, The seller will delay getting out of the property by NOT submitting the offers to the bank for review.

If you are a property owner in this situation, I am sure that you are scared and probably realize that control in this situation is not within your grasp, if it was, well, we would not be having this discussion. You do have options as the owner as to how to try and make the process go smoother, as in handing in the correct paperwork when asked, but not much more that is within your control and If you go about a short sale in an educated manner and understand what is about to happen and how it works, you can make this very stressful period go through with 50% of the stress. Sorry, but there is no magic that is going to give you the keys to the “drivers seat” for you to control.

FACT: A property owner is NEVER obligated to send ANY unexecuted contract(s) to their lender let alone multiple contracts. Their only obligation is to pay their mortgage. If they default on this obligation, they have three options 1) sell the property at a price/terms that is agreeable to the lender(s) – this could be a normal sale or short sale. 2) let the property go to foreclosure 3) keep the house by working things out with the lender(s).

In reality, if you send 1 contract and HUD along with your initial package to the lender, you will get out of the property faster. Some people think it makes sense to send in multiple offers to the bank, but in reality it does not. Here is the practical reason why: Banks are overloaded with files to process- so by continuously sending in more and more contracts, the process is delayed by creating more paperwork for the bank processors. Make no mistake about it, in reality it is this simple. Any of you who have worked in corporate America know that keeping it simple is always the fastest way to get across the finish line. Enough said about that.

Here is how this all works from the seller’s perspective:

A short sale package without a contract/offer will not be processed by the bank. So when the first contract comes in, it should be immediately be sent in along with all required documents such as financials, hardship letter, etc. The first step the lender takes is qualifying the seller’s eligibility for a short sale – sellers must express a true hardship. Provided the seller is eligible, the lender then assesses what the fair market value may be. This is accomplished by either an appraisal or BPO or both. Based on this number, the bank will then present the HUD to the investor(s) that holds the paper. The investor will either approve, or deny/disapprove. In some cases they will simply deny without further explanation prompting the next offer be presented, in others they will specify the number the are looking to NET. This process takes 45-90 days on average.

Here are the four outcomes:

1) The contract/HUD is approved and closes
2) The contract/HUD is approved but the contract falls through – the seller knows what the bank will accept
3) The contract/HUD is denied and the bank specified the number they are looking for – the seller knows what the bank will accept
4) The contract/HUD is simply denied without further explanation– the seller knows how low the lender will not go.

Clearly #1 is the most desired outcome. However, in order of desirability 2, 3, & 4 are good goals to be achieve.

2) When a HUD is approved and the contract falls through, the HUD typically remains approved for a number of weeks. This would allow for a second buyer to step in and close rapidly at or above the NET value to the lender.
3) Knowing what the acceptable number is, the seller can give the first buyer the option to come up in price. If the buyer declines to come up, a second buyer to step in and close rapidly at or above the NET value to the lender.
4) Knowing what number will not be accepted, if the buyer declines to come up in price, the seller will then know what number would be a waste of time to submit to the bank.

None of this is written in stone, but give you a good idea of how things can be moved along efficiently.

If you are a property owner, don’t let anyone scare you into thinking you have lost total control. As long as you are still the owner, you are in the driver’s seat. Find an experienced Realtor that works alongside a law firm that has a specializes in short sale and foreclosures and you will increase your odds of successfully selling your property.

Typically if the property is priced correctly and the offer is in line with the BPO (broker price opinion) then the bank will take the offer. If the listing agent has done their homework before they list their properties they will make sure they have supporting comps (properties that have sold in the recent past) that justify the offer. If the banks feel the seller has available funds then they will come back and want monies from the seller. This is where the negotiating takes place.

No, my answer is not wrong.

Even if the seller has more than one loan, there is still an answer to await from the bank(s) and yes, short sales with more than one loan are also presented to each bank by the sellers attorney. It is still up to the banks to accept or deny the proposed payoff of each respective loan. So all offers should be sent to the banks to decide what is acceptable, low or not.

Yes, technically, the seller owns the home. But, in the real world of real estate short sales, the homeowner is usually at the end of the rope and the reality of not having a say in what is an acceptable offer is the real world. These people are looking for help.

The seller has no say in what is an acceptable loss to the bank (s) that they owe. The bank(s) decides what is acceptable. For the seller to not forward all offers to the bank, The seller will delay getting out of the property by NOT submitting the offers to the bank for review.

Let’s stay in reality here for a minute, people that are looking to buy short sales are circling these properties waiting to buy a good house at the benefit of another person’s loss. We are not seeing full price for these short sales.. we are seeing people bidding 30, 40, 50% under list price because they hear it on TV that they can. Usually the sellers just want out of the property and will gain nothing by not submitting all offers to the bank (s).

John, unfortunately your statement "the seller does not have a say in what to accept..... All offers, low or not are to be presented to the bank for a yes or no answer. " is incorrect. As long as the seller still holds title, (the bank has yet to take possession through foreclosure), the seller's right to accept or deny any contract differs in no way to a seller that is not attempting to sell short. The seller is not obligated to send all offers to the bank. There are a variety of reasons why a seller may not want to accept a low offer, here is a major one - many people have more than just one loan. In a short sale the creditor of the first mortgage accepts less than the full payoff for the debt, releasing its interest in the property and forgives the borrower for any shortfall – the property owner no longer owes anything. In contrast, the creditor of the second mortgage will not forgive the debt and instead will give a “release of lien” – the property owner still owes the creditor. In the months following the properties closing, the debtor and creditor will come to a settlement for a portion of the balance. SO, it is in the seller’s interest whenever possible to arrive at a higher price if it will cover a portion of the 2nd mortgage – thus reducing exposure after closing. Just one of many reasons why a seller may be motivated to seek higher offers and deny low offers.

Yes, they simply aprove or disapprove.

The bank will run the offer numbers versus the waht the cost of the sale will be and decide wether or not the choose to incur the loss. Then the bank will tell the listing agent to change the list price to the bottom line number.

There will be no counter or negotiation and the seller does not have a say in what to accept. All offers, low or not are to be presented to the bank for a yes or no answer. The statement below that the seller negotiates the accepted offer is wrong, the seller wants to get out of the property.. hence the short sale and has no say in the accepted offer price.

NO bank will "counter" an offer - this can only be done by the party’s to the contract buyer/seller. SOME banks verbally or in writing will reveal what they are looking to net on the HUD-1. Other banks will simply give a denial verbally or in writing. Each bank has their own set of rules/guidelines.

Actually the seller should counter if the offer is too low because they are technically still the owner, not the bank, unlike foreclosures. However the bank could have the seller to counter offer on contract prices that are too low if it is an otherwise good contract; for instance if the buyer has a strong lender letter and isn't asking for a lot of closing costs to be paid by the seller (bank). As an agent listing short sales, I try to list somewhat below the comparables to make the offer more attractive, and in the hopes of getting more than one offer or a quck offer without a lot of low balling. I recently listed a very nice condo that was a short sale at about $10K lower than the last comparable sale. A contract came in well below the list price and the seller countered at full price and it was accepted. The better offer the seller can negotiate themselves, the better it is for them to be able to get the bank to agree to a short sale. Remember when a contract is submitted as a short sale the seller is trying to stave off foreclosure.

Very quickly. .banks, legally can NOT counteroffer an offer to purchase because they are not the" principals of the contract". .the seller is. .and the seller is the homeowner, not the bank.
The bank is merely a contingent clause in a contract .. .like a home inspection

Hopefully this helps you understand. .

read my ebook I wrote about short sales in the link below. . it will answer many questions. . Thanks

Guess everyone is sugar coating it now wanting to have buyers avoid short sales due to the long wait times to get that counter offer call and just try and deal with the buyer later. Me, I personally rather prepare them for a long wait so I don't seem like the incompetent one later if it should take a long time (usually does to get an answer especially when multiple lien holders are involved) but hey, that's just how I roll.

Hi there,

Banks certainly do come back with counteroffers on short sales. This is why many of them last anywhere from 2-6 months. Banks want fair market value for short sale properties, and unless they receive them, they will not allow the transaction to occur. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

Regards,
Olivia

The bank did counter our offer, verbally over the phone with the listing agent. So, in our case, yes, the bank was Countrywide.

They may if the home has been 6 months or older

Umm... You must be on their super special list then because any offer I have delt with if I was representing the buyer or seller it takes a heck of a lot longer than that to get an answer and the banks general response times seems to be getting worse lately.

I have 3 short sale transactions now that have been in wait for over 7 months with regular contacting the bank.

If the bank is smaller you can usually have an approval back in less than a month. On a few short sale submissions, I have received a counter within 1 week. Most banks however will counter by phone because they want to make sure they have a deal before they submit the deal for final approval.

Larger banks like Chase and Countrywide you can expect to receive a counter 2-3 months after your short sale has been submitted.

Nice amazon affiliate link ;-)

Anyway, they do counter offer but not usually that quickly, first they order BPO's run their numbers take a while to run their numbers and toward the end of the decision process will make the counter offer if any and that is almost always never done in writing but by phone. The problem is the counters are usually high and usually based on old bpo's due to how long they take to get back to you with an answer to the package (a counter is an answer "No" to your submitted offer)

I've done many short sales and never got an answer in a month, heck 4 months for that matter!!!

I hate to disagree with some of the agents who've answered this question, but some banks do "effectively" counter offer. If a negotiator is assigned, the negotiator may call (after a month and a half) and "reject" the offer, explaining that IF the buyer could come up to a net of X dollars, then the lender would accept the deal. Again, effectively, that is a counter proposal.

There are also terms that a lender may reject which can be changed.

If you want to learn more about short sales, there's a couple good courses that charge a lot. Harris REU has a program. There's also a short book by Loren Keim that does a very good job outlining the process and the questions and answers for home owners and for Realtors. It's on Amazon for about $12. I'll copy the link below.

Good luck!

Donny

The banks can offer a solution, while not a formal counter through the Sellers agent, who I am sure represents the homeowner. Once an agreement is reached it can then be put into a counter offer by the Sellers agent, with the homeowners signatures and a clause indicating pending approval by the lender.

With the three short sales I have closed, the banks did not counter offer the buyers. I was told that the BPO and my net on the HUD were in line with the BPO ranges given by the brokers ( two of them if the loss to the bank is great). It is very important to follow up and ask the right questions because if you do this as a listing agent you will know very early on whether or not you will close the deal for the buyer. I will say for the buyers out there you do need to be patient with us listing agents we are monkey in the middle and would do anything to get you approved but it is out of our control.

Its illegal for banks to counter offer, however they still try. To answer your questions, yes, they do counter offer most of the time, even though it is not legal for them to do so, as they don't own the property.

It has been my experience that they Most Certainly WILL counteroffer if necessary. Once a buyer submits an offer and the listing agent presents the package to the lender for consideration, one of the VERY first things they do is order an appraisal or a BPO [Broker Price Opinion]. This is the case even if the listing agent submitted comparable sales or a full market analysis showing their opinion of value.

One reason they do so is to show their investors that they have a third party/independent opinion of value in addition to the listing agents; a second reason is to have a "current" price opinion since the market is changing literally weekly. On average it normally takes 2-3 weeks for them to receive this, but I have seen them come in as soon as a couple of days.

If the appraisal or BPO comes in significantly higher than the offer, then they will counter-offer back to the buyer's offer.

Depends on the negotiator, I've had one with countrywide that countered with an obscenely high counter.

He based it off an appraisal that was done 6 months prior and refused to order another appraisal just said $xx this is what we need...

Ridiculous and possibly because this "Negotiator" was unreachable, eventually (after 6 months) I was able to climb up the ladder or just catch the right supervisor that after a couple days managed to get in touch with the negotiator (negotiator apparently wasn't working from the office) anyway sounded ticked off that a supervisor was contacted.

Probably the reason for the unreasonable behavior, I sent him a list of comps one of which was a house that just sold next door which could have passed for its identical twin (sold for $200K) this house was worth no more than that but he had a number of $240K stuck in his head, needless to say the buyer said go to heck!

I have had counter offers or given the bottom line. One I am working on the bank came back and said they wouldn't go lower than a certain price. The buyer did come up to the price and we now have an agreed shortsale.

I have submitted many offers on short sales. I find that in many cases they do not respond. The guy with the transaction in Miami is the exception - not the rule. However, in Columbus, there are some Realtors who have handled these properties for many years and are working with lenders who have also and they have a system in place. I know if we have been accepted, if not we can move on. Ofcourse I have heard how prices in Florida are nose diving, and we in Columbus Ohio have dropped but not plummeted. Inventories are adjusting and now there are more buyers looking. Hopefully we will stabilize this year. So - in Columbus Ohio if you are looking for a good deal - do it now. Especially if you are a first time homebuyer (not owned a home in the last 3 years) and take advantage of the tax credit program. If you are in a position to buy..do it.