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Short Sale B…, Home Buyer in Oceanport, NJ

No one answered by other question. Do banks counteroffer on short sales or simply approve vs disapprove?

Asked by Short Sale Buyer, Oceanport, NJ Sun Jun 8, 2008

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What would the seller know about what the bank will accept on the first bid? Or what would they know about what the bank will accept at all? Is it not the idea to get out of the property ASAP and stop the bleeding?

Why would the seller haggle with a potential buyer when they have no idea what they are haggling for?
Submit the offer to the bank.. The seller has MINIMAL say or control, and the point is to sell the property as fast as it can go.

I learned this on the first short sale I was involved with.. the other agent came in $95,000 under asking price.. the seller was all upset, I was leery and said.. hhmm.. I'm not too sure about this, to which the other agent said.. hey, what do YOU care? let the bank decide... and guess what? The bank ran their numbers and took the $ within 4 days and closed three weeks later. Done. Same result as if the seller got all insulted and tried to negotiate for the bank.. Why make the hassle? GET THE OFFER TO THE BANK.
6 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 3, 2009
No, my answer is not wrong.

Even if the seller has more than one loan, there is still an answer to await from the bank(s) and yes, short sales with more than one loan are also presented to each bank by the sellers attorney. It is still up to the banks to accept or deny the proposed payoff of each respective loan. So all offers should be sent to the banks to decide what is acceptable, low or not.

Yes, technically, the seller owns the home. But, in the real world of real estate short sales, the homeowner is usually at the end of the rope and the reality of not having a say in what is an acceptable offer is the real world. These people are looking for help.

The seller has no say in what is an acceptable loss to the bank (s) that they owe. The bank(s) decides what is acceptable. For the seller to not forward all offers to the bank, The seller will delay getting out of the property by NOT submitting the offers to the bank for review.

Let’s stay in reality here for a minute, people that are looking to buy short sales are circling these properties waiting to buy a good house at the benefit of another person’s loss. We are not seeing full price for these short sales.. we are seeing people bidding 30, 40, 50% under list price because they hear it on TV that they can. Usually the sellers just want out of the property and will gain nothing by not submitting all offers to the bank (s).
5 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Jul 26, 2009
Yes, they simply aprove or disapprove.

The bank will run the offer numbers versus the waht the cost of the sale will be and decide wether or not the choose to incur the loss. Then the bank will tell the listing agent to change the list price to the bottom line number.

There will be no counter or negotiation and the seller does not have a say in what to accept. All offers, low or not are to be presented to the bank for a yes or no answer. The statement below that the seller negotiates the accepted offer is wrong, the seller wants to get out of the property.. hence the short sale and has no say in the accepted offer price.
4 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Jul 26, 2009
Usually you want to give your best shot, decide what you want to pay for the home and live with it.

Sure everything is negotiable, but with the process going through a bank, it is not like a normal negotiation, it takes time and if someone comes in higher then you.. then you are out.

You can play games with it, sure, but the bank wants to get paid and you may get knocked out of the game without even knowing it once a higher offer comes in and then it is too late. Although banks do not want to own the property, they aslo want to get paid and there is not much room for games.

Yes, they simply aprove or disapprove.. until a higher offer comes in. Then you are out.
4 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Jun 8, 2008
We just put in an offer (full asking price) on a Short Sale in NC and less than a week later we've received a counter offered by the bank for $75k OVER asking price!
3 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 16, 2010
Jeanne - you posed an interesting question, as I never stopped to think about it from the consumer's point of view. (whether resurrected questions offer value, even though they are outdated).

Maybe you should post a separate question to see what they say.......of course, instead of consumers, you will probably get agents answering for them!
:)
Now I guess my answer is on top!
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
I think you misunderstood my question Victor and my intent. I think there are a fair number of consumers that browse content for topics of interest, perhaps not asking a question themselves, but drawn by content of interest to them. I generally do a better job in checking the date, this one slipped by me, because others had answered - including you - and drew it to the current NJ questions which I scan regularly to see if I can add some value. That's all, not trying to jockey for position and not trying to promote old questions being resurrected. But more curious that's all, as to whether when this does happen, if there is any value to the consumer.

While it used to annoy me as much as it obviously does you, I have come to appreciate that sometimes we all miss one. And so when I see it happen, I generally just move on to the next question, rather than reprimanding the poster. But may just be a difference in our style.

It's over and out for me on this thread....
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
Good question Debbie - it would be great to hear from a consumer - I wonder too whether consumer dig through questions looking for content of interest, or read as we often do what is at the top of the heap.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
Hi Jeanne - we all do it by accident (type a response without noticing the date).....usually I realize it before hitting "submit" so I then delete it

I have conditioned myself to CHECK the date first....and also READ some previous comments....AND, if there are already 20 or 30 or 50 responses, unless it's a topic open for sharing opinions, I will usually pass and not even bother.......even if it's a current question it amuses/annoys me to see agents repeat , sometimes almost verbatim, what has already been said in the last several posts.

Since this is an old question, way past its prime, my question won't interrupt the flow of responses.......I wonder - do agents read prevous posts and not care if they are repeating for the umpteenth time what has already been said..........or are they just too interested in seeing heir words and photo on a post, and don't care...or don't they bother to see what some have already written???
I am curious.........
What do you all think?
What is the goal of repeating, even if paraphrased, what has already been said??
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
Oh dear, I see I was snagged in the very trap Victor mentioned - well hopefully the topic has some current appeal - shame on me for not noting the original question date.

Have a good day all!

Best,
Jeannie
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
I've seen it go both ways - offers go straight to the bank, counters proposed by agent and/or bank, or in one case I was recently involved with a bank owned property was withdrawn from the market to be repriced. In the last case, the bank saw the reaction of the market - many quick offers - and felt the property had been mispriced, even though many/most of the offers were over asking.

No real rules, but what I am finding is this - generally banks are looking for closer to market value than they may have been previously. I think part of this stems from the banks getting the process more under control so it is not such a free for all. I heard from an agent that does many short sales in the Philly area, and he said that he pushes back on offers that are outside of the 90% of market value range.

Best,
Jeanne Feenick
Unwavewring Commitment to Service, Unsurpassed Results
Web Reference: http://www.feenick.com
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
Yes, banks do counter offer! Remember the offer is between the seller and the buyer. The bank on the other hand, is looking for specific proceeds (based on the appraised value). You also want to be aware - they do not pay all of the buyers closing costs. Rule of thumb - If the seller's financing is FHA, expect no more than 1% towards closing and for conventional loans no more than 3%. Also remind your buyers to expect to wait up to 120 days (or more) for a decison. Hopefully, this will be changing with all of the new laws and there will be some consistency with the short sales.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Mar 27, 2010
The answer is yes. Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Indymac have countered on all of my short sales (8). Either price or terms
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Mar 24, 2010
Just want to add a couple of things, remember the bank is owed money from the seller of the short sale. Short sale means that the current owner cannot pay the mortgage due and has hired a Realtor to market the property for less than the mortgage. Subsequently, the bank has had a Broker Price Opinion(BPO) or Appraisal done on the property and wants to get the most back on the loan. The bank will most likely take the highest and best offer from the most qualified person they get an offer from. For example and all things being right in the world, you might offer the full price, but you have to get an FHA loan, but someone else offers $10,000 less than you and are paying cash, the bank may opt for the cash buyer because the longer the house sits on their books the more it costs them. If you are looking to purchase a short sale, be prepared to wait for an answer. I've seen banks respond within a week to 8 months. And when they do take your offer, they will want you to move very fast to close. Good Luck!!
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Mar 15, 2010
I usually tell my buyers to come in with their highest & best offer if they really liike the house. Also you should come in with a solid preapproval for a mortgage with no unrealistic conditions from the seller. As a result those that have taken my advice got the house they wanted. Banks have so many short sales these days you can't imagine. They are so busy that typically they will just ignore your offer if it is not what they are looking for financially & wait for something better to come in. Also it is important that your agent keep after the listing agent daily for any updates from the bank on your offer.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Mar 13, 2010
WOW. I am shocked about some of the answers in this thread. Victor and Short Sale Specialist from Jacksonville are on the money and most here are simply off the mark.

Will the banks counter? Absolutely!!
Will their counter be wrong if the BPO agent they sent out does not know the area? Heck yes!
Can this BPO be challenged and a new one ordered? Yes!!
Can you escalate to senior management to have this re-evaluated by someone who can actually make a decision? Yes!
Should you ever submit more than one offer to the bank? NEVER.........backup offers are strictly that, BACKUPS....and they should not be signed either in my opinion. Only if the original offer falls apart should you move to the next offer in line.

The contract/agreement is between the buyer and the seller. The lenders approval of the short sale is a contingency of the deal. No different than the inspection or financing addendum the buyer will typically put in place.

Make sure you have an agent who first of all knows what they are doing and can explain a strategy to you, and on top of that, will go to bat for you when the lenders start to play hardball and not simply lay down and take whatever the $9 an hour negotiator who cannot make a real decision gives them.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Mar 12, 2010
The Investor approves or disapproves....remember, for short sales you are dealing with the loan "Servicer" they get paid to Service the note and do as the investor instructs....
Also, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS keep in mind, the people you deal with in loss mitigation are called "negotiators" for a reason, they get paid to negotiate with you and get as much money as possible for their investor (some actually get paid for each time they tlel you "no" and get in trouble if they accept your first offer)....
They WILL LIE and tell you things that are not true b/c they can, THEY HAVE NO CONTRACT AND NO FIDUCIARY responsibillity to you, an attorney, or anyone BUT the Seller.....best advice I can give, push back, tell them no and wait them out......Ben Benita, http://www.BestShortSaleService.com
Web Reference: http://www.United-IG.com
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Mar 9, 2010
Sometimes they counter but there really is no sense in trying to figure out how they operate, there is no standard operating procedures in place for them and if there is they ain't sharing how it works.

It pretty much seems their standards change from negotiator to negotiator and ultimately from their underwriters who apparently have the ultimate say.

Recently one of my short sales (I represented the buyer) was under contract for oh... 10 months, the bank always kept requesting updated documents, yada..yada... the usual. Then the negotiator wanted us to write a new contract and lower the price! Yes lower the price... Sure!

About two weeks later they denied the short sale because the selllers tax returns didn't have the same address as the house (the seller hasn't been living there for over a year! No mortgage fraud involved)

Well we tried to convey that message to the negotiator (along with the sellers agent) but they just kept telling us. A denial is a denial and you can't change that regardless of the reason and refused to even look at any further proof that would prove that.

Basically short sales are hit or miss and this is the reason why so many people are getting frustrated with them and I'm noticing avoiding them all together unless they have been pre-approved. Meaning another offer where the buyer dropped out of from waiting was finally approved and now the listing agent has a very short window to find another buyer to fill their shoes.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Sep 6, 2009
"Jeanne - you posed an interesting question, as I never stopped to think about it from the consumer's point of view. (whether resurrected questions offer value, even though they are outdated). "

I think that the threads are read by consumers given the varied topics of interest. Not that everyone is going to read this.. but a lot of people looking into short sales will run across the question -and- there will be some modified answers to the old question which could be useful to new, searching for answers consumers.

Now I guess my answer is on top!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Nov 23, 2011
Yes, I know how old the question is... And the times have changed... banks will Approve, Disapprove and Negotiate. It depends on the bank and the offer, each bank has a different answer.

That is a modified answer from my 2008 answer.. as the process has changed.
Debbie, It seems to me that most agents do not read the dates. I noticed that new agents just look for their area, like zip code.. and if there is a question they answer it without realizing how old the question is. That seems to happen a lot. But also like Jeanne states, it may be that agent are drawn by content of interest to them.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Nov 22, 2011
the people we deal with in loss mit. are called "negotiators" for a reason, they get paid to get as much cash as possible for the Investor on the note. Some negotiators actually get in trouble if they do NOT counter you and others actually get paid a bonus for EACH TIME THEY GET A NEW HUD WITH A HIGHER OFFER!!!!

Know that approvals are also either Tier I, Tier II or Tier III, based on how many of these criteria your offer clears:

Percentage of amount offered compared to amount owed
Percantage of amount offered compared to BPO/appraisal valuation
Percentage of NET offered compared to amount they would otehrwise receive via foreclosure

Meet all 3 of the above, and you are LESS likely to get multiple negotiations (meet all 3 and you have a Tier III approval).

Anyway, too much to get into on here....bottom line, be prepared to negotiate, know PRIOR to tkaing the listing if your Seller iwll bring cash to close, agree to a prom. note, etc. and you will be ahead of the game.

All my best to everyone.

Sincerely,
Ben Benita, Speaker, Radio Guest
Author - "Are You More Likely To See Bigfoot Or A Short Sale Approval Letter?" (get it on Amazon)
Office -- 703-754-7551
Web Reference: http://www.United-IG.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 24, 2010
Yes! A counter offer in the true sense is what you just explained, what they are approving or not approving is what they are counter to the buyer and seller. Great question, the more questions and answers we can resolve about short sales, the more informed descions can be made.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Jul 4, 2010
The banks have a formula and they look at their bottom line on the HUD. Banks hire real estate agents and appraiser to give the value of the property. The banks are aware of repairs needed and calculate an acceptable range that would be acceptable. If your offer falls within the their value range, the offer will just be accepted and if not the bank will send a letter of their bottom line required on HUD
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Mar 17, 2010
It really depends on the lender/servicer. Some will counter in hopes of reovering someof their loss, others will simply accept or reject it. Quite interesting though, it seems that most lenders on the short sale end are not profit motivated. I've seen them reject a deal only to accept $50,000 less on a property a month down the line. The key to success in the short salearena is persistence. Keep calling, calling, and calling until you get someone in charge to respond.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Mar 16, 2010
@ Aaron Catt
It's a bold statement to tell everyone who made a post here that they are wrong and then make a statement that "Banks aren't a party to the contract in a short sale"

If that's the case why are all short sales "Subject to" Bank or another 3rd Party Approval?

Banks are very much so a part of the transaction in a huge way, many of them have their own in house negotiators on staff who's job is to negotiate price and terms which are of an acceptable loss to the bank and to ensure a complete short sale package/documents is in their files to examine.

The package is to ensure not only that the buyers offer is acceptable and they can afford it via a pre-approval but also that the seller is eligible according to guidelines to be granted a short sale. This is why they want to see the sellers bank statements, hardship letters, income / expense work out sheets, etc.

That being said, banks have more to do with short sale transactions than give a thumbs up or down to release lien, that is a heck of an over simplification of the process and their interest and playing a role in these transactions.

FYI @ Laudenthal: The only time a 4th party investor's approval is needed is when they either bought the loan on the secondary market or were the investment group originally funding unconventional loans or most commonly found with 100% financing deals as the 2nd 20% loan was a commercial loan funded by investors. These loans are usually offered a few thousand to go away in short sales and usually cause the biggest headaches because if they don't agree to accept a payoff which the 1st lender will determine then the first lender will just foreclose and wipe out the investor all together.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Mar 10, 2010
Sorry John C. You are way, way off the mark here with this post.

"Please note that when dealing with 'short-sales' properties/offers, you the buyer are working directly with the seller (owner) of the property. Therefore, no 'the bank' does not directly counter, accept or decline any offers. That said, the seller has a monetary responsibility to the bank (note holder) and may have to counter or decline based on guidelines."


Completey wrong. The seller has the no say in what the bank will accept on a short sale property. This is why all offers should just be accepted. Period. This does not affect the seller, the BANK is the one that will decide how much to lose.

This post is a perfect example for buyers. Look for a Realtor that understands the short sale process.

if you are thinking about speaking to a Realtor regarding listing your home in a short sale situation, it is very important that you list your propery with a Realtor that has short sale experience. Otherwise you may decline offers that would be acceptable to the bank.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Oct 22, 2009
Guess everyone is sugar coating it now wanting to have buyers avoid short sales due to the long wait times to get that counter offer call and just try and deal with the buyer later. Me, I personally rather prepare them for a long wait so I don't seem like the incompetent one later if it should take a long time (usually does to get an answer especially when multiple lien holders are involved) but hey, that's just how I roll.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Jun 15, 2009
Umm... You must be on their super special list then because any offer I have delt with if I was representing the buyer or seller it takes a heck of a lot longer than that to get an answer and the banks general response times seems to be getting worse lately.

I have 3 short sale transactions now that have been in wait for over 7 months with regular contacting the bank.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sat Jun 6, 2009
Banks don't call it counteroffer. They simply say : "we will not accept less than....$ for this property".
It happened to me with my client, he couldn't afford to pay more so we walked away. Ours was the only offer.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Mar 20, 2009
Heck ... sometimes they actually respond ... ;-) I had one in NJ where they didn't respond at all for 3 months with mine as the only offer ... I finally walked away ... they still own it and no other offers.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Mar 20, 2009
They usually approve or disapprove. Done.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Dec 16, 2008
I have been trying to sell a condo in a short sale in Florida. I signed with a realtor in Nov. 2012, and due do his negligence actions, the sale file was closed after 3 cycles of the application process (agent jumped to another broker and did not legally transfer the listing, yet listed it).

I reapplied for the short sale, got another agent and an offer. It was sent to the bank, who ordered a BPO. The BPO was accepted and the Bank countered $7500 more. The buyer accepted it and the contract addendum was sent to the bank. 2 weeks later, the sale was declined by the loan server server, no reason given.

I asked the bank negotiator why and no answer was given. What do I do now?
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 27, 2013
When answering these questions it should always be from the consumers point of view, that's kind of the point of answering, not to impress other agents. At least that's the way I've always looked at it.

I'm not annoyed when new people answer and don't first look to see the age of the post. it's more annoying when an agent who knows they've answered this before MANY times goes on to repeat asked and answered questions NOT at least adding any new useful information. Some people like to hear themselves speak and it can be seen here, they like to see their words types over and over as well.

We all know this happens a lot, for instance some people will reply again just to say good question or good answer. This is not only useless banter but a tactic to jockey's for top position in a thread but adds to the agents # of replies giving them a higher number on their ribbons as if they answered in some useful way.

I just consider it spam, is spam annoying to you?

From the consumers point of view, They're probably lost not being able to locate the real answers to the question and if they get email notifications like I just did, get sick of the new post notifications too.

It's time for me to unsubscribe to this long defunct thread, I'll leave it to the glory hounds to stay on top. The real question answers have long been drowned out in the noise. Talk about beating a dead horse, Give it a rest already!!!

I don't care to get involved in petty bickering which is bound to erupt from this post so I'm unsubscribing now, LATE!!!!

PS. The way this question was worded, it was probably originally asked by an agent with a fake profile anyway.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Nov 23, 2011
WOW! Awesome. Looks like there is nothing to do but answer this question. Or, is someone just waking up. This question has already been helped
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
I guess I'll answer again to so I can stay at the top of the list, is that what's going on? Really... ;-)

Question asked and answered, if it hasn't with 194 responses, this site has become quite useless!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Nov 20, 2011
It's just Trulia that resurrects these old or inactive threads by sending them out as having new responses to everyone subscribed by email which causes everyone to pounce on the post.

This question has been asked and answered many times already. PLEASE NO MORE RESPONSES!!!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Nov 19, 2011
It all depends on the lender and the offer. You won't know until you begin the process.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Nov 19, 2011
Ron - I think this question has been answered ad nauseam!
Geesh!
No idea why (or by whom) these old questions are resurrected.....or why some don't bother to check the DATE before responding.............or, maybe they do, but don't care .
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Nov 19, 2011
Depends. Sometimes they accept or reject, and sometimes they counter.
Realize this... the short sale price is set by the listing agent and depends on their competence. If a property is worth $500K and they put it up as a short sale for $300K yes.. they will get fast offers and they will be rejected or countered at 'gasp' above asking price. There are unfortunately many agents attempting short sales that do not have the experience which decreases the likelihood of them going through.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Nov 19, 2011
GOSH!
41 months this has been kicking around!
with 185 answers, do you think we've answered the question yet?

no one even got a BEST ANSWER!
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
Depending upon your offer and the lender. Very low offers are most often rejected. Low offers are most often countered. Lenders have different guidelines for different market areas. Most lenders will accept a certain percentage of the appraised value of the property as standard procedure. Others utilized various metrics to approve, counter, or reject short sale offers.
Hope this helps.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
Banks will either approve, reject or counter your offer.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
There is a simple answer, The bank. They will do several BPO's to determine the value and will forward there counter offer to the Title Company.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
Sometimes they counter offer. Some times they reject. It really depends on the offer and the financing ( or cash) involved. It sometimes appears that when an offer is negotiated between the seller( who still owns the home) and the bank, there may be some contribution the bank wants the seller to put in. The Owner/seller may ask the buyer to come up in price to accommodate that request and allow the process to continue to a successful close.

Different for different situations.

P.S. if this is a really low offer, the bank may flat out reject.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
Banks do counter offer on short sales many times, even though they shouldn't. Do you have a short sale specialist to represent you? Check out -
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Nov 18, 2011
Things vary from lender to lender and really deal to deal.

Your best bet is to first choose a local short sale specialist to offer no cost assistance.

Check out -
0 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Oct 11, 2011
I have been working on a short sale deal the past 4 months on a 1.8 million dollar home. Because of my short sale submission to the lender, I saved the home owner from a foreclosure. In the mean time, I executed a TREC Real Estate contract for purchase and sale of the house, which i filled out with the home owner, and his Real Estate agent. So i have a Valid contract to purchase the house..... In the meantime, I am still waiting to hear back from the bank, and have got extremely close to getting the bank to accept my offer. NOW... PLEASE READ THIS AND GIVE ME SUGGESTIONS.... The Real Estate agent in the meantime, has gone behind my back, and found a buyer for the house ( Which is actually my END BUYER ) and has executed another purchase and sale contract on the house COMPLETELY IGNORING what I had done, and totally "Over Ridden" my contract, and now is about to close this other deal within a week. I believe that what she has done, is totally illegal, and this has totally ruined this deal for me. There was a minimum of $450k to be made here, and now im left with absolutley nothing, apart from the fact that i have to pay my negotiator $2000, and I saved this person from a foreclosure... im left with nothing.... I want to sue her, but I need expert opinions..
Thanks. Caleb
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jun 15, 2011
Yes, banks to frequently counter offer on short sales, even though they shouldn't be.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Mon May 2, 2011
They do but the offer is of course subject to approval or rejection.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Apr 15, 2011
Yes, they do. I been doing short sales for years and we are seeing a lot of things that the banks are doing that is totaly different then 3 years ago. I have seen banks counter back on short sales, I think this question is depending on were you are,I am in Texas they do and we have a stronger maket then most places. Let's not say they will not because it all depends on a lot of facts. If you are in the Houston, Missouri City, Sugar Land and looking to Short Sale your home give me a call, working too service the community for 10 yr.
0 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Apr 13, 2011
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