Home Buying in 23451>Question Details

Paul,  in 23451

I want buy a house with out a realtor what do I need?

Asked by Paul, 23451 Fri Dec 28, 2007

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Reatlors want you to believe that the house buying experience cannot be complete without them. Actually, Realtors have told me that they are necessities, and they just don't know how real estate transactions could be completed without them. Don't believe it.

The home buying experience is not as complicated as Realtors wish you to believe. You don't need to complete classes, and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to do it. Personally, I hate using Realtors, because they simply increase the price of the property, regardless of what they try to tell you. Realtors cost you money, whether you're a buyer or a seller.

If you're a seller, you will pay up to a 7% fee for the seller's Realtor. If you're a buyer and you don't use a buyer's Realtor, the seller's Realtor should give the seller a discount in commission because traditionally that 7% selling Realtor fee is split between the buyer's and the seller's Realtor. So if you eliminate a buyer's realtor, the seller should be able to pass the savings along to you unless the seller's Realtor is excessively greedy (and you'll find those.)

Find the property you like. Make the offer. If the home is listed by owner, then submit the offer to the owner. If the property is listed by a Realtor, then you can submit the offer to the listing Realtor. If the home is listed with a selling Realtor, then you 'll have to go through that Realtor anyway. The easiest way to make the offer is to download the sales agreement (contract) from the internet for the Board of Realtors of your state. Don't let Realtors tell you that you can't get them or that you can't use them. Bologna. Just because the forms indicate that they're for use by Realtors doesn't mean you can't use it youself. I've done it myself and it's easy. E-A-S-Y.

You don't need any special training to complete the sales agreement, as everything is self explanatory. It addresses everything necessary to complete the transaction -- everything from earnest money, closing dates, closing attorney, inspections, contingencies, etc.

So ... go for it yourself and save the time, money, and headache of dealing with a "buyer's realtor."
20 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
umm, yes, Mistiie, the forms are for Realtors....not Reatlors. They are developed and copyrighted for our use. Yes, I supposed you can download and use something that you are obviously not supposed to use. I suppose you could walk into a store, take something off the shelf and walk out - why not??There is no 'typical 7% listing fee' I've seen 7% maybe 10 times in 14 years. True, the savings can be passed along to the buyer but normally, any discount realized in a transaction is money back in the seller's pocket. It is perfectly ok for someone to represent themself and buy a home without the use of an agent (please stop using 'Realtor' for every connotation when referring to a real estate sales person). Sometimes, having representation is invaluable. That is a decision that each person needs to make. I supposed I could do all of my own investing or widdle my way under a crawl space and look for termite tubes, but I choose to hire a specialist. To each their own.
Flag Thu Mar 5, 2015
Because it is SOOOO difficult to look up comp sales... :)
Mortgage company is going to require a professional appraisal anyway by the way.
Realtors are generally worthless middlemen.
Flag Thu Sep 5, 2013
Well, Jason, anyone who responds to a 5 year old thread can't be that bright. You aren't doing your industry any favors...
Flag Thu Apr 18, 2013
So as an average buyer/ non agent experience, would you say you know the market better than a realtor/agent? You feel confident with your ability to gauge pricing and not over paying? Just curious what you do for a living?
Flag Wed Jan 30, 2013
I find it very interesting that every Realtor/ agent (I know the difference) on this thread says the same thing about the seller paying the commission, so their services are "free" to the buyer. While it is true that the seller pays the commissions of both the buyer's and seller's agents, please use common sense when answering the following question? WHERE DOES THE SELLER GET THE MONEY TO PAY THE COMMISSIONS? The answer is...THE BUYER!!! The seller will set the price of the house high enough to pay all the commissions and get as much money as possible through the sale. So even though it's indirect, the buyer always pays the commissions. Nothing is free.

On the other hand, if you purchased a home without a buyer's agent, you could probably negotiate a lower price by getting the listing agent to agree to only receiving their half of the commission. What a novel idea, right? Getting the agent to only get paid for their half of the work. Especially in this slow real estate market, saving money on half the commission could really help people sell their homes. There are bargains everywhere.

For example, assume you are purchasing a home for $200K. If the seller agrees to pay their agent 6% commission, which would be split with your buyer's agent, each agent receives $6,000. If you can get the listing agent to agree to only their portion of the commission, you could buy the house for closer to $194K. If it means that the agent either receives their 3% commission or the house sits on the market for another 3 months, than it should be a win/win for everybody involved.

Finally, all of the Realtors on this site like to ask why a person would forego "FREE Representation". Since I already debunked the myth of "free" service, I have to ask this question. Why is it that when a person says they don't want to use a realtor, you all assume they won't be represented? By hiring an experienced Real Estate attorney, a buyer can be represented by somebody who truly has their best interest in mind. Since an attorney does not get paid based on the sales price of the house, they have no incentive to get the buyer to agree to higher than necessary sales prices. You may have to spend a few hundred dollars to retain a good real estate attorney, but it makes all the sense in the world if it saves you $6,000 as in the example I used before.

A "buyer's" real estate agent gets paid based on the sales price of the home, so they can not really work in your best interest. In other words, the realtor who is supposed to look out for your best interest gets paid more when you spend more. How can they be on your side? How can they negotiate for you? Think about that when you tell a real estate agent that you only want to spend up to $200K on a house but they keep showing you houses that cost $230K.

If you're willing to search for houses on your own, analyze the value of recent nearby sales, and negotiate a sales contract, you don't need a real estate agent. You can use the internet to find houses, and since houses are staying on the market for longer, this shouldn't be a problem. You can find out about recent nearby sales (not asking prices) on the internet, and find trend data from the local Realtor's Association. You can find out how much the seller paid for their house and when they bought it from the local courthouse or Assessment Office. It's public record. You can use a real estate attorney to help you with putting together a purchase offer.

I admit this is not for everybody, but if you really want to buy a house without a buyer's agent, you can very well do so.
13 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Jul 22, 2008
If you want to buy without a Realtor, the list below represents a partial list of some of the more important things you will need:

1) recent comps for sold data, and up to the minute activity reports for actives, under contracts, price changes, and days on market reports,

2) tax data (available from the local assessor)

3) tax maps (used for reviewing subject properties, competitive properties and comps)

4) community data, news and changes with the potential to impact property values or choices; examples - school funding, zoning changes, DEP issues,

5) general knowledge of codes, construction and building structures. Detailed expertise is not required, and Realtors also do not generally possess detailed knowledge. What you will need is an eye that will notice items that warrant further evaluation.

6) A network of qualified individuals to provide evaluations, inspections, and quotes for repairs or areas of concern. This could include anything from mold inspectors, UST sweeps, chimney sweeps, etc.

7) A network of affiliated business professionals to move a property from offer through closing. This network would include attorneys, title reps, mortgage reps, and appraisers.

8) Clerical and admin support to manage paperwork and errands. Someone to wait for inspectors, appraisers, go to the town and pick up forms, courier to another location, etc.

9) Sources for community data, schools, area info, maps, etc.

10) Objectivity. Probably one of the more challenging needs to meet when representing yourself.

11) Input from other buyers. A Realtor is able to paraphrase and summarize the collective viewpoints of other buyers for you to use as a gage. Without a Realtor, you will need to conduct your own primary research to have this data.

12) Source for step by step explanation of the process. Someone to call to find out, “What now? What next?”

13) Prelim title reports on properties.

14) Forms, contracts, and reports.

15) Source to help solve problems. Realtors have other Realtors, their managers, local, state, and national association offices for resources. Without a Realtor, you will need a source for this data on demand.

The above list is incomplete, but will give you a good running start from which to begin your preparation.
13 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Dec 28, 2007
Deborah Madey, Real Estate Pro in Red Bank, NJ
MVP'08
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Drew, the reason the contracts have become so long, is because every single paragraph in those contracts stemmed from a disagreement with a buyer and seller. And each time that disagreement became onerous, the real estate attorneys in the area (not the Realtors, thank you) added an additional paragraph to clarify this issue so it didn't occur the next time.

Eventually we ended up with the contract your see today. Yes, contracts can be 1 page, but then they don't protect against all the eventualities that real estate attorneys are seeing in today's lawsuits. The contract isn't the length it is today, in order to "confuse" the buyer or seller... it's the length it is to offer the most protection from misunderstandings. Nothing's being "hidden" in the contract.

I agree that there are many people out there, who are savvy enough to buy a property without the help of a buyer's agent, as I said in my original response. But when someone asks so simplistic a question as "I want to buy a house, what should I do?" I still contend that they are probably not experienced enough, nor savvy enough to step into that home-buying arena without some support.
11 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in Evanston, IL
MVP'08
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I'm getting fairly bored with the comments/insinuations and insults......

Jed....My point was about digging up two year old threads to post nothing but "Hire a Realtor" comments...I think it's silly and detracts from the forum and the argument made of how it is actually some way of helping educate the public seems weak..You have insulted me twice now, If you wish to have a fight with me then I will oblige, your call!!

Now I've been called stupid, insinuations of I'm an Realtor hater ect., so let's set the record straight...

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!

I have close to 2000 comments now and have been posting for just over 1 year...

Show me just one example of where I have ever said..
Agents are stupid
.Realtors are bad
.Don't use a Realtor.
.Realtors are not worth what they are. paid.
An Agent is not worth 6%
.People should do FSBOs
.You can't trust Agents...

You can't because I never have but you will find hundreds of comments by me defending Agents, praising Agents, recommending Agents, and stating that I believe using an Agent is the way to go....

Stupid...Worthless contributions...Common..I have close to 1400 Thumbs up Since Trulia started in 2005 I am now 5th in the All-Time rankings for Thumbs up...http://www.trulia.com/voices/users/most_liked_answers/?time_…
That's something I'm proud of and I believe it makes the "I have nothing worthwhile to say" insinuation rather groundless....of course I suppose you'll say the people who gave them to me are stupid....

Let Trulia check and check and check to see if there is any suspicion whatsoever of me having more than the Dunes profile or any hint my TU's were not given by others or received fairly...


My challenge...Let's make the request they also check everyone in the top twenty TU's for the week/month/all-time...
Anyone found out to have cheated...Account frozen gone from Trulia forever...period

Let's find out who cheats......

If all you have to support your position is insults and "I'm smart you are stupid" comments then you really don't have anything worthwhile to say....
8 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Dec 8, 2009
We just recieved this same question from a future new associate to our office. You can absolutely purchase real estate without a Realtor. I would suggest a 2 hour class focusing on the purchasing, home inspection and financing (if you are looking for a mortgage) processes at your nearest Real Estate Board of Realtors. You do not have to be a member to take these handy classes and for such a small fee of $30-100 dollars its a great deal. Happy House Hunting!
8 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Apr 9, 2008
There is a very low bar of entry in becoming a Realtor. When the market got hot everyone went running to it, to get their commissions for doing little. So many of them gave advice that in many other careers (insurance sales, financial advisors) would be illegal. They are able to cling on due to the fact that the MLS (locally run by REIN) is private, and that is where most of the business is done -- for now. But as time goes on, they will fade. Remember travel agents? I barely do because I'm not 50 years old ! The realtors do know some stuff, like how to avoid the "bad" neighborhoods, but that kind of data can easily be derived from census data and plotted with some google maps API skills. Realtors are really a waste, I love schooling them. Most are pretty dumb. I actually went to an open house and was calculating how grossly overpriced this crapbox was, using $ per sqft, and the overweight woman immediately assumed I was trying to figure out how much monthly payments would be. I saw it as her calling me stupid, because only an idiot would look at monthly payments over the real value of the property. Sad times in America.
7 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Apr 8, 2008
Not trying to be insulting, and don't think i've been more insulting than all the posters who insult the general public's intelligence by inferring or stating directly that the whole process would be too difficult for them.

This is like a guy at Jiffy Lube ranting that changing your oil is too difficult to do yourself, and you don't have the tools and all that nonsense. With $50 in tools and 5 minutes on the internet, you can cut that oil change from $40 to $10. For some, that's not worth it, for others it is. If the mechanic said "sure you can do it yourself, but it's messy and it will take you much longer and you could always mess something up. but if that's your wish, more power to you." Instead we're being told "YOU"RE NUTS! APOCALYPSE WILL ENSUE IF YOU TRY!"

And this rubbish about the license and the continuing ed and all that is just silly. Come on. The girl who cuts my hair for $5 went to school and has a license. A taxicab driver has a license. A truck driver has a CDL and has to get a physical every year. Taking some classes and jumping through some hoops does not necessarily mean you're worth what you're making in income. And PS, as a professional with my own requirements for continuing ed, I also happen to know that it's a joke. So stop this trash about how your profession deserves so much respect because it is regulated. Lots of professions are regulated, it's part of life and having a job. There are hoops you have to jump through.

And please don't suggest that there is some recourse that a buyer can seek if his realtor just stinks or is misleading and that there are all of these regulations, blah, blah, blah. Show me the precedent for a realtor being successfully sued for failing some kind of fidicuary to the buyer. Buyer's agents have an incentive to "pump" the home, period. And their contracts absolve them for most of the responsibilities that a buyer would find most useful.
6 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Dec 30, 2009
Be careful. If you are looking to become a first time buying right now it's obvious you don't know the market well, because it's set to fall in value ~40% or more. Just remember this, if you aren't embarrassed to make an offer, you're offering too much. A good idea might be to pick out 5 homes you like, and make all the sellers compete for the lowest cost. Remember those fake auctions where people would outbid each other? (Or Realtors would lie to buyers and tell them there are higher bids to work up the sales price).
6 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jan 9, 2008
Bubble boy,

I have a few things I'd like to say to you. First, you seem to have done more research or be more informed than the average buyer. Not every buyer is or wants to be as informed as you are; they simply want to pick out a house and sign the paperwork. Granted, that may not be the way you make purchase but there is more than one right way to buy a house. I have had clients that have that mindset, they trust me enough to put that control in my hands. Again, there may be more than one right way to buy a house.

I'm sorry that you feel as though all Realtors are uneducated, money hungry, low lifes that just want to take advantage of good people. When the market was going crazy, there were a lot of folks that got their licenses for the wrong reasons. This tougher market is weeding some of those people out. They are the ones that took advantage of people, were always looking for a quick buck, and truly did not care how much the buyer could afford but rather, how much they were approved for. Those are the wrong kinds of agents and even other Realtors do not want them out here treating buyers and seller the way they do.

For some of us though, we really do take pride in our work. In this line of business, repeat and referral business is our bread and butter. You can only get that business if you have done the job right and if the buyer/seller feels you have given them the absolute best service that could be provided. That is how great Realtors stay in business.

You also mentioned in your post that there is a low entry bar to become a Realtor. Where do you get your information? Have you ever been a Realtor or are you referencing agents? Do you know that there is a difference? I'm sure you can do some more research to find out that there is a difference. You can do the research to find out about licensing laws, continuing education, the schooling, accreditations and designations.

It really bothers me when Realtors are grouped with agents and are all condemned for the poor decisions of a few. As I have said before, we are not all created equal so please keep your mass groupings to yourself. I'm not sure what you do but let's just say that everyone that has your job is overpaid and lazy. I'm sure you know a few folks like that but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are.
5 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Apr 9, 2008
The Realtors who haveanswered this post have given you the information honestly and forthright for you to buy a house without a Realtor. That is what you asked for.

I sell and buy houses everyday, as an investment portfolio for myelf and for my clients. Last year my team did 289 transactions and we have our clients best interest at heart with every one of them. I have seen the good, the bad and the really ugly. I can't tell you how many times I have been called in to straighten a mess out where someone was being taken for a ride. In most cases, it was the buyer being pounded on.

If you do not want a Realtor (and there is a difference between an agent and a Realtor), that's your choice and I am glad we have that choice in a free society. Go for it and best wishes. I believe everyone who posted here had a helpful spirit and a true sense of service, not a mean streak wanting someone to make a monumental mistake.

Jo Shaner
4 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Feb 23, 2008
Drew, everyone can take the Real Estate classes, but most aren't interested in expending the time and energy. And just because they've taken the course, does not make them qualified to write a contract... sometimes a "little" knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Yes, everything can be done simpler, but I doubt that simpler always brings the same results. A case in point was just shown on another thread, where the buyer was asking if she was "stuck" paying full price for her soon-to-close home, when the appraisal came in low. They didn't use a "subject to appraisal" clause that's routinely included in most good agent's "15-page" contract, that might be left out of your simpler 1-pager, especially if you're a "newbie" fresh out of the Realtor Course.

I don't feel you're intentionally bashing Realtors (although you're certainly not praising them either), but you're telling it the way "you think" it is. We all come to things with our own perspectives.
4 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in Evanston, IL
MVP'08
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Paul - bought my last 2 homes without a realtor, but they were new construction. You might be able to get a nice rebate (up to 2%, maybe more) if you do it yourself, Google home buying rebates for info.

(Technically this means you will present a realtor as your agent but they don't do anything for you, they collect their 3% commission and rebate 2% or whatever to you after closing.) Also some builders offer benefits if they don't have to pay the commission (make sure you get the info upfront - once you walk in without a realtor you might not be able to declare one later.)

You can also find price benefit with FSBOs - many will rebate you the commission if they don;t have to pay a buyers realtor.

If you're buying a home on the MLS that's serviced by a full service brokerage, they're gonna pay the commission to someone ... so if you're not doing a rebate you might as well find a buyers agent who can represent you (otherwise the sellers realtor gets the commission and you get no representation).

And I'll echo the answers below - if you're really not familiar with the process you need to educate yourself or get a realtor to help!
4 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Dec 29, 2007
Hi Paul, I think the important part of your question is the word "need". Really - a pen, a check book and time for an attorney to write up the deal and close the transaction. - usually 3 to 4 weeks from the time you find the right house and get the seller to agree with your price. Not enough cash in the checking account? That deepens the list - now you need a lender, an appraiser, and the attorney the lender will want to protect their interests. Also you will probably need proof of homeowners insurance protecting the lender.
Best wishes on a speedy and efficient transaction! Stacey
4 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Dec 28, 2007
Anybody that agrees with me, that emphatically, gets a "thumbs-up" from me :-)
3 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in Evanston, IL
MVP'08
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Great answer Elvis! Thanks so much for your input, you are 100% correct.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
Thank you Drew Hitt for an honest and refreshing approach to an issue that can be handled by most buyers and sellers on their own .. it's done every second of everyday.


Good post.!
3 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Feb 21, 2008
Realtors are paid to get the highest price they can for there sellers. And since they work both sides, meaning they represent sellers and buyers. They have an interest in keeping home values high. I will never use a realtor again. You can do better. We decide what home are worth, not comps. Hold the line.. You'll be rewarded in time..
3 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Feb 5, 2008
You can buy a house without a realtor but there's probably going to be a realtor involved on the selling end unless its an FSBO (and in this market a seller would have to be an idiot to try and market a house without listing it). So if you're just trying to avoid a commission being involved in the purchase price, that's being paid anyway by the seller.
Web Reference: http://www.877Quiksel.com
2 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Jul 29, 2011
Second: as a FSBO you can underprice it.

ME: LOL I've never seen a FSBO underprice their home.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Mar 22, 2011
Amen to that. Most FSBOs either don't have a clue or could care less what the real market value of their home is. I met a FSBO last week who said she'd have to clear $200K because that's the amount of inheritance she promised her son.
Flag Thu May 28, 2015
Second asked - Where are the buyers are who can voice on this?

Debbie Ross wrote:

You ask - "Where are they"??...............I'll tell you where they are.............they are home watching tv or reading a book or painting that extra bedroom..............why would they be here complaining to strangers or hanging around a RE website??

She is right for most instances. A few are wrangling out in court or w/ their attorneys to undo a bad situation. But, well written direct reply from Debbie to the question.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Apr 13, 2010
Deborah Madey, Real Estate Pro in Red Bank, NJ
MVP'08
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Second O. Angle,

Thanks for your insight into your agent-less transaction. My wife and I are buying our second home, and we will definitely do so sans agent, per your advice. Thanks again.

To all the realtors, please stop feverishly flooding this thead with reasons as to why your job is important. The original poster didn't ask about your jobs... he asked how he can prevent himself from wastefully subsidizing them. Either give useful advice on-topic to the original post, or keep yourselves out of the thead.

Anyway, after our future purchase, I'll make sure to update this thread with the results (which I'm sure will result in more requests for censorship of the thread).
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Mar 24, 2010
Update for those interested in my "go it alone" adventure.

I put in a lowballish bid on a house I really liked and because of a strategic error on both my and the sellers' parts, I was outbid, and was quite sad to lose the house.

Then, a house owned by a realtor who has been putting blood sweat and tears into it for 6 years, which I have been eyeing for over 6 months, which it was said he would never sell......i drove by on Sunday and saw a sign in the yard.

I looked at that night, put in an offer the next day for the listing price LESS BUYER'S AGENT FEES OF 3% and he immediately accepted it.

For each offer I made, I paid a local real estate attorney his hourly fees ~$500 in total, for him to type up the REPC and make sure it was sound.

I am in contract and I could not be happier. And I saved $10,000 on buyer's agent fees.

AND I CAN ALL BUT GUARANTEE THAT A BUYER'S AGENT WOULD NOT HAVE FOUND THIS HOUSE THAT I'M IN CONTRACT WITH FASTER THAN I DID. IT WAS ON THE MARKET FOR 3 DAYS WHEN I MADE THE OFFER. AND, HE HAD 2 OFFERS THE NEXT DAY, SO ANY MINOR DELAY IN MAKING THE OFFER WOULD HAVE LED TO ME LOSING THAT HOME.

I could not be happier going it alone. It was an incredible experience, and I had great fortune. And I have $10,000 in my pocket to spend on something else.

I highly recommend your trying this. It is not hard. Do it.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 14, 2010
Again, Trulia.............

When do you "kill" a thread of ridiculous answer's???? And "no" I'm not doing this for any "points". This is why many ethical and professional agents won't subscribe! "AXE" it......our client's are reading your site.

Thanks.=)
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Dec 29, 2009
If someone advocates censorship, then its probably a thread worth reading!
Flag Sun Apr 6, 2014
I am in the process of doing this, buying without a realtor, and I fully expect that the seller's agent will renegotiate his commission to facilitate the sale. I am an intelligent guy, just bought a house 4 years ago, I have a real estate attorney representing me in the sale, and frankly and most importantly, my experience with realtors is nothing like the idyllic picture discribed by apologists herein, where they are knowledgable, helpful, etc. That's the crux for me. If somebody is going to make $10,000 from "helping" or "guiding" me through a process, they're going to have to be STELLAR, and what they do is going to have to clearly demonstrate great expertise in a complicated field. Sadly, I don't think that it requires great expertise, it's not that complicated, and it CERTAINLY should not net somebody $10K for the time it takes them.

The realtors I've had experience with did squat for me. Pulled some homes within my price range from that magic hat the MLS generator, then drove me around in a LEXUS to homes with gutters falling down, roofs in bad repair, etc. If you're gonna make $10K on helping me, then help me goddurnit. Go around and vet the houses before you put me in the Lexus and waste my afternoon paring the list of 12 down to 6 after the obvious ramshackle overpriced homes are weeded out.

We'd walk into a place and I'd hear "oh, wow, nice layout" then I'd start noticing dilapidated furnaces, water stains here and there, this and that obvious structural defects, and, reading my disappointment, she would shift gears and start to bag on the house - a real "yes-woman".

Later she would tell me, "oh, you don't have to look at all that structural stuff, that's what I'm for". Yeah, right. YOur contract in the first paragraph discloses that you have absolutely no expertise in such matters, and that, as a result of that disclosure you are totally indemnified against any responsibility for any loss I might suffer as a result of your advice in such matters! Well, if you can't be held to a standard, what will I do? Woe is me?

Here's what I'll do. I'll vet the goddurn houses myself on zillow and trulia and other sites, i'll troll the neighborhoods, and I'll find the house I want. After I look at a few dozen, and peruse the zillow data, I'll begin to get a feel for what I can get for $300K. I'll learn more when I see overpriced homes languish for months on end, and I'll learn more when a "steal" is sold in the first week and I miss it. But I'll learn. And what I don't learn, the attorney and the inspector, professionals that CAN be held to standards and who are not indemnified for negligence by their contract can earn an honest fee for the service they provide me.

Meanwhile, that $9,000 commission the "buyer's agent" would have made from, as someone astutely pointed out, my pocket, will remain in my pocket and I'll use $1000 of it to pay the attorney and the inspector a fair wage for a fair amount of work.

I'll let you know how it goes.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Dec 29, 2009
I am curious, did you get a discount? Did the agent only make 3%?
Flag Wed Nov 13, 2013
>> And as for your ability to evaluate whether any of us are capable of representing our clients - let me remind you, this is not American Idol; your vote doesn't count for anything.

Really? On one point I agree. This is not American Idol. This is reality. Here, I am a consumer / client / customer / buyer / seller. We are the ones who interview agents, choose among them by our standards as to who is or is not qualified. We get to recommend for, or against agents, to other customers. We get to choose who gets hired. And, if we feel our needs aren't being met we can choose to fire our representation. Ah, not only do we have "a vote", but we have THE vote :-)

And I never proclaimed to be an expert in real estate. Those are your words, not mine. I have bought and sold a fair number of homes over the years and learned a few things along the way. Like you, I have also worked with many hundreds of clients in a sales context, equal in complexity but different as to specific content. I'm a landlord as well. So, the reins have been in my hands for quite some time, and I like it that way. More consumers should become more educated before they make such important financial decisions.

So you see that I am no stranger to sales and I do place value a good salesperson. With what is at stake to the consumer in a real estate transaction, I expect a much higher standard of knowledge and ability than is provided by most. This is not a personal attack on you, so don't construe it that way. My statements are general and I do believe their veracity and stand by them.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Dec 8, 2009
Drew,
The people that think they aren't fun are the the ones I really like. Probably because getting something for my client is very satisfying.
Best description I've every heard of negotation which I've shared it a few times on Trulia. The power of negotiation is the ability to walk away from any deal, the skill is never having to.
In California we have so many state mandated disclosures that just the Buyer & Seller Advisory disclosure is 10 pages, the San Francisco one is 41 pages.
My point exactly Drew on the due diligence. An agent will always or should always provide an extra measure of diligence than the buyer alone.

So my advice back to Paul is until you know as much as Drew or the agent your goiing up against you are not ready to do it alone. Go ahead and learn the hard way if you want but it can be a very expensive education.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jul 30, 2008
Jed Lane, Real Estate Pro in San Francisco, CA
MVP'08
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JR I'm with you man!

Mistie--Just for clarification...a buyers agent (selling agent) would not be the agent listing the home. That is the listing agent regardless. Listing agents are hired by the sellers to represent them, buyers agents are hired by buyers. Also, in some cases, listings agents will pass the difference of a commission where no selling agent (buyers agent) is involved so that it is a savings for their client or the buyer. In other cases, since the buyer does not have their own represenation, the listing agent actually takes on some additional responsibility to help get the buyer through the process.

In the perfect world, every transaction would be cut and dry and buyers/sellers would be able to get through things on their own. In the event that things start to go down hill and either party is upset, it is nice to have a Realtor to help put things in perspective and get everyone to the end goal. Whether that is closing or walking away, it is nice to have someone on your side that has gone through the process a few hundred times.

To each their own, whatever you are comfortable with. I am not sure how it is in other states but in Virginia, we are also allowed to do limited representation. This allows us to be hired on an as needed basis and for a flat fee. My company allows this flexibility to allow the client to pick and choose what level of service they need. If they want help writing the contract, negotiations, marketing, etc...you don't always have to pay a percentage; you can just get the answer to a question and the advice you need to move on.

Good luck to Paul, Drew, and Mistie--you are much braver than a lot of folks I have met.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Fri Feb 22, 2008
Good Lord. Some people make this process of buying a house sound so confusing just so they throw their hands up and use a realtor.

I've bought houses with contracts I WROTE MYSELF. And my standard contract is 1 page long, realtor contracts are like 15. Makes you wonder what's being hidden in there. A ratified contract can be made without an earnest deposit. I do it all the time. Consideration is given when you have a meeting of the minds and settle on the terms.

Buying a house isn't hard, I do it all the time.

Agents aren't free, someone has to pay for them. Do they mention the fact that if you use them and find a home on YOUR OWN you still are obligated to pay them(comes out of sellers profit), that doesn't sound fair to you, does it?

So refer back to my answer below, and K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid! Don't confuse potential homebuyers into thinking this is crazy hard and you MUST have an agent to buy a home. The funniest thing you can do is take the Realtor training class yourself, just don't get your license and you'll know more than 90% of the agents out there. It'll all be fresh in your mind!

So take the time to learn how to do it, or just pay someone to do it all for you. : )
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Feb 21, 2008
Why in the world would you not use a Realtor for a purchase - they cost you nothing and you get so much in return?? I can understand (not condone) why you would want to omit a Realtor in the sell of your property because the seller pays the fee. If you were going into court, would you go without an attorney - even if they were free to you??

Now, after that is all said, you should have your financing in order. If you will be purchasing with cash, then you will need a letter/statement from your bank to verify funds. Should the seller be unrepresented also, make sure when earnest money is delivered that it goes into an escrow account - comingling of funds is punishable offense in most states and ignorance is not an excuse. Make your earnest money (consideration) out to the escrow company - not the seller.

If you and the seller have agreed upon the terms upon which you will be offering, then you need to either contact an attorney to write the contract or see if you can obtain your state's ratified contract form. Don't try to write something up yourself on a dinner napkin or piece of paper - when you have problems, they will be BIG ONES doing it that way. Standard forms from the office supply stores are usually to vague.

In the offer you should have the following things: a begining date (date you are writing it) , an ending date (closing date), the right to have the house inspected, what the remedies will be for inspections, a financial clause (if financing) in case you lose your job or don't qualify (so the seller doesn't keep your earnest money), a provision is the seller is paying your closing cost/prepaid items and or points. You will also need the following addendums: a lead base paint disclosure(if the house was built before 1979 - the EPA requires this even if you are unrepresented - no excuses), Some states require a property disclosures form (filled out by the seller prior to offer), a property exempt form (if the house is being sold as is, from an attorney to satisfy an estate, a brand new home, tax sale or by a person who has not resided in their house for 3 years), personal interest disclosure (if you are buying this from a relative - need to cover your neck ).

After you get the contract written and sign off on by all parties (at this point everyone should have copies and you retain the original for lender purposes), then a copy goes to the title/escrow/attorney - different states do it different ways. Give your lender either the original or a copy (he'll let you know what his practice is). Make sure you have your copy for your records.

The lender will order the appraisal (appraisals are for loan purposes only). If you are paying cash, you don't have to get an appraisal, but it is smart to do so. The attorney/escrow/title company will start your title search.

Along the way you should keep in contact with your lender to make sure everything is on track and get him/her all the documents immediately to avoid any delays. The attorney will let you know if there are any incumberance in the title and instruct you upon what will be needed for your closing. You should have an inspection done on your intent purchase within 7 days to insure no foundation, structual, electrical, plumbing and the roof should be free of leaks. Cosmetic items are not contractual with the exception of new home construction.

After the inspection, you should give the seller your punch list for him to fix. I suggest you get a licensed inspector with credentials to be taken seriously the seller should a problem exist.

Now you need to secure home owners insurance (get that info over to your lender or closing agent), call the utility company(s) to transfer service over at closing, along with cable and phone. If you wait until you close you may be looking at weeks for those services.

Another note to the wise. If you are obtaining a loan for the purchase, while you are under contract - buy nothing on credit (Sears will deliver a frig in one day). This is the easiest way to mess up a deal and can cause your ratio (debt ) to place you outside of buying a home for MONTHS.

Now back to harping - a good agent would handling all these aspects for you and ensure things don't slip through the cracks. Plus, run comps, maybe even help you get more "stuff" with their negoiating skills, be an objective council refer reputatable resources your way and keep you legal (most don't know they are breaking the law). If my appendix needed removing, I surely wouldn't want to operate on myself.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Feb 21, 2008
If you don't mind me asking, why do not want representation? Have you not met someone that you clicked with and felt as though they would be working in your best interests? Do you think it will cost too much money? Do you think you may be able to get a better deal on your own?

I would like to know so that as a REALTOR(R), I can understand buyers needs and wants better.

I am an Accredited Buyers Represenative in Virginia Beach and pride myself on doing my very best for each client, so any insight you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Best of luck.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 31, 2008
Yes, many of the homes built in the last few years were rushed, because everyone was trying to cash in on the mania. Illegal workforce used to build properties that resulted in nosebleed profits for the construction companies. The 30 year mortgages will outlast these pressboard boxes.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jan 9, 2008
Even with new construction, Paul, I'd recommend that you get a home inspection; I've seen new homes that have issues -- improperly installed gutters, etc. -- that the buyer caught with an inspection and the builder corrected.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Jan 9, 2008
There are many people out there, who are savvy enough to buy a property without the help of a buyer's agent. They may have bought or sold property before, or they could have some connection with the industry (paralegal, closing agent for a title company, escrow agent).

But, the fact that you're asking the question, tells me that you're not savvy enough to attempt it. Buying a home may not be "rocket science" but there are plenty of problems along the way, and the best way to avoid those problems is to have a guide who's been there before you. Someone who knows the ins and outs of the process and what the pitfalls are and how to avoid them. I've just desrcibed a buyer's agent.

And since a buyer's agent is a professional negotiator and will likely save you money on the purchase price, and since the buyer's agent is paid from the proceeds of the seller at closing, I have to ask "why wouldn't you use one?"
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Dec 29, 2007
Alan May, Real Estate Pro in Evanston, IL
MVP'08
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Over and over again! What will it take? Buyer's agents can be the most cost effective financial service you will ever use in your adult life. It is like having the IRS offer to pay for a team of tax professionals to complete your tax forms and represent you in any matters concerning those tax forms while being legally, ethically and morally bound to pursue and protect your best interest under threat of criminal prosecution, financial penalty and or loss of career. How could that possibly seem like a deal that you want to avoid?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Dec 29, 2007
Perhaps you should attend real estate school. You don't have to take the test at the end and actually get a licence, but you would be better informed with the basic issues you will need to navigate.

However, even after beginning real estate agents pass their test, they are then supervised by an experienced real estate broker and almost always carry liability insurance to protect against errors.

You can buy a house on your own, and hope that everything goes well, but don't assume that the process is always easy.

I am questioning whether it is legal for you to use a Florida Realtor contract as these are copyrighted for the use of Realtors.

Good luck to you.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sat Jul 27, 2013
Why is this still floating around for Dec 28 07
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Apr 24, 2012
Asking a Realtor how you buy a house without using a Realtor is a little stupid,
don't you think?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Apr 15, 2012
I bought my first home through the internet and with the help of a few books. I read the Dummies/Idiot's books cover to cover before even considering this. Then I got a few more books from Nolo Press and a few textbooks used to teach agents. These were great references. I might even consider becoming an agent yourself before buying a home for the first time. Then you could even cut yourself into contract depending on your state, and come out with your "first deal" done. Let's not pretend that there are risks here, but it is doable. I'd had one bad experience with an agent and I decided that I didn't want to take my chances even though I know that most of them operate ethically.

Worth noting is that similarly, we had been told that I needed legal representation while I was helping a friend with his applications for a greencard & then later citizenship. As someone with a paralegal certificate I knew that the government has just about everything online now (budget cuts have forced this trend) so that anybody can fill out the forms and put important dates on a calendar/blackberry and show up to the appointments/file in a timely manner. Simple Trademarks, Copyrights, and Patents are the same way. I helped my friend print and organize his forms and put everything into a timeline and calendar. He began filling out all of the forms and collecting supporting documentation. He had to get a few documents translated and notarized, and he had to send a few things priority mail/certified. My friend saved about $6000 in legal fees by doing it himself. Books from a publisher called Nolo Press were very helpful guides but the govt websites also had a wealth of instructive info. Everyone had told him "You need an immigration attorney". Actually he found that being responsible for the process himself kept him totally in the loop and gave him greater understanding and flexibility.

I think that someone working 60 hours a week should just pay an agent and spend their own time making money doing what they know best. But if you have the time and interest and want to make it happen, you can do it yourself with a lawyer. You should have very good credit and a fair chunk of liquid cash at hand also. I had the benefit of a friend who is an agent who answered random questions for me and a realtor in the family who helped me make a few decisions which gave me a greater sense of security but didn't really change the game.
You must be tolerant of risk since of course there is probably a bit more risk doing it alone.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Apr 15, 2012
I'm looking to buy a house. I've researched and found a couple that interest me in the $200,000 range. I'd like to buy the services of a realtor. The services I'd like would be let me in the house, provide me with their professional opinion regarding the asking price, recommend a local inspector and to assist me with paperwork.

I don't want to hear that these services are free to the buyer. I'm pretty sure I could put in a bid to the selling realtor and ask them to lower the selling price by $6000 because I don't have a realtor they wouldn't need to include it in the costs and they (selling realtor and owner) wouldn't hesitate to agree. Am I wrong?

I've emailed 3 different realtors asking if they would provide the above services for a flat fee of $2000 with $500 of it up front. All replied they wouldn't do it for less then 3% ($6000ish). Not that they know I'm looking to buy a $200,000. I wonder if I'd get a different answer if I said I was looking a $50,000 houses.

Why do realtors work on a percentage? This question is for a realtor.
Why would a realtor take on a client looking for a $50,000 house with a 3% commission, but they won't take a flat fee of $2000 with $500 up front money to help a potential client look for a house at an unknown value? This question is for a realtor too.



Thanks
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 26, 2012
You also do not have to use an agent at all. You can call the listing agents of each property and get them to let you in and use an attorney to help you with all the paperwork, there is a phone book for finding inspectors too. But be advised, you will not have representation or anyone out there looking out for your best interests. Good luck.
Flag Thu Mar 15, 2012
that leaves $4800, then they withhold their 33% taxes, that leaves $3216.00, let's say they put in 15 hours a week on average over 8 weeks working on your transaction. This would be setting up searches, coordinating appointments, looking through the MLS, showing property, writing offers, negotiating, coordinating and attending inspections, communications between all other parties including lender and title company, final walk through and closing....this would equate to $1.88 an hour. That is far below minimum wage. This also does not take into account any of our other associated fees just to be active agents. Could you afford to go to work for even $2.00 an hour before you had paid for your insurance, gas, groceries, marketing, etc. I highly doubt it. You get what you pay for.
Flag Thu Mar 15, 2012
Some REALTORS do work using "fees for service". Not all agents are allowed to do this though because of company policy. RE/MAX agents (such as myself) do have the freedom within their business to structure their services to fit their needs, as long as it is within the rights of our licenses. I suggest you contact a RE/MAX agent. However, it is unfair to expect an agent to give you full service, not for full pay. I also suggest that you talk to your lender about the minimal difference in payment to get the house for $6000 cheaper. Paying $6000 over 30 years (or however long you own the home) is a much smaller chunk of your wallet compared to the $2500 you are willing to pay at this time.
I think consumers have a common misconception of how much money agents make. Let's take a traditional set up at a large firm, the agent gets, at best and 80/20 split with the company. Agent sells a $200,000 home and is paid 3% in commissions. That is $6000, the company takes their 20% off the top,
Flag Thu Mar 15, 2012
@Second:........... "I'm still waiting to see a non-agent, unbiased person to come along on this thread with personal experience of a disaster in "going it alone" buying or selling a house. Does such a person exist? Come out, come out, wherever you are..... "
..................................................................................

That's kind of a funny comment.........

Second - unlike you, who seems to take great glee in gloating how great it was to go it alone (to which most of us say bravo - good for you - who cares)..................why would you expect someone who already bought or sold a home - alone, or with an agent - to be hanging around a real estate website when they have completed the job and are happily living in their new home?

You ask - "Where are they"??...............I'll tell you where they are.............they are home watching tv or reading a book or painting that extra bedroom..............why would they be here complaining to strangers or hanging around a RE website??

Most laymen/consumers are here asking for advice on buying or selling, or some other RE related topic............they ask questions............and then.........once the questions are answered.................guess what?.......they leave...................Hanging around Trulia isn't a hobby for most people!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Apr 12, 2010
Still don't get your point.
You chose not to use an agent and are obviously esctatic with your choice.
Good for you.
I know you want it to bother me but I am afraid I am going to have to disappoint you.
It doesn't bother me at all. Just the opposite- quite happy for you. I've already expressed my belief that there are plenty of motivated people who choose to go it alone and are perfectly capable of it.
However, quite oddly, it seems to bother you quite a bit when people choose to use an agent and may be happy and satisfied with that decision.
I have to admit, that part kind of bothers me.
Just a little.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Apr 12, 2010
Hey Second,
Gee, thanks for explaining my motivation as a real estate agent. Its always good to have a non-agent clarify for me exactly what my selling tactics are.
Yes, agents get paid only when the deal is done.
The best way to get other business is by doing a good job for the people who have hired us- not being blatantly self-serving at the cost of our clients/customers.
That is called common sense, not freakonomics
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Apr 12, 2010
Wow, was considering buying a condo without an agent. After this list I am sure I will. Second Angle spoke facts and figures while most agents spoke hate and vitriol.

Reasons given for having an agent (besides "You must") were they save you money in negotiations . . . which I doubt when you consider they get paid a commission on the price, and no one on here sounds altruistic enough to ignore their own pocket book so the buyer gets a better price.

They help you through a complicated process, yet Angle showed clearly that this complication comes down to a title company, appropriate inspectors and a real estate lawyer.

Many people will want agents, but I can see that in the age of the internet where information is readily available, there is, like the print newspapers, a dwindling need for buyer agents,.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Mar 16, 2010
It's Time for the Pros...

Some people say we're now entering a bad real estate market. I disagree. I think we're entering a great market. A bad one is when amateur investors become real estate experts and they bid up prices. They make housing expensive for homeowners, often adding little to no value to the property. They simply muddy the waters and make a valuable investment, a home, expensive.
It's the amateurs who come late to the party -- and who eventually donate their money back to the professionals. What I'm saying is: Now is the time to turn pro. Now is not the time to be an amateur. It's the amateurs who jump in when the market is hot. It's the professional who comes in when it's cooling down. Get the message?
When the red-hot bull market of real estate was beginning to overheat, you didn't have time to make considered decisions. Sellers were receiving multiple, over-asking-price offers. In a bull market, you had to be quick, have money, and be a little foolish. Now that the market is cooling down, sellers are a little bit more humble. You have more time and can do your due diligence carefully. You can negotiate better terms and make a better deal, especially if the seller has his leg inside an alligator's jaws.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Feb 23, 2010
You need to go to school to learn how to sell your house in a smart way.
After you past the test you must join MLS.
Then you must learn how to pick the right buyer out of many who can not get a mortgage.
You need to have a lot of knowledge and time.
Are you up to it...?
Most people are not, that is why you need an expert to guide you...
Good luck
Josh
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Feb 17, 2010
Well, I closed about 3 weeks ago and I could not be happier. There were no glitches, it was a piece of cake. Both the inspector and the Appraiser (both of whom I paid a flat fee for their services) were FLOORED by the condition of the house.

There were no problems, NONE, in buying this house without a buyer's agent.

I recommend it to others who are saavy and have common sense and are motivated to apply it.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Feb 16, 2010
He's a tip for you Second. If your appraisal doesn't come in at your reduced purchase price, negotiate a much better price or terms (that 3% credit to your closing costs). By the time underwriting and the appraisal and home inspection are done those other "offers" are long gone and the seller will probably feel more motivated to work with you since that might be the only offer they get.

Just remember the deal isn't done until closing is finished. So keep fighting the good fight.

I buy houses without agents, you can always cut out the middle man, you just can't cut out the middle mans function.

Just like the car you drive, you could have gone straight to the factory and bought it, but then you'd have to pay to ship it to you, go through customs and all that jazz. Or you buy from a car salesman and get the same thing and compensate them for their service. You could go to a neighborhood and knock ever door and ask to see the house and if they are interested in selling. Or you could pay an agent that found a house where the sellers wanted to sell. They do provide a service, but you could always do it on your own too.


-Drew
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Jan 15, 2010
The reason agents (and their "apologists" as you put it) feel the need to defend themselves is because you make a decision to not use an agent and then use that as an excuse to attack an entire profession.
What exactly is it that YOU do? I can't think of one profession that doesn't, often for good reason, have its haters.
I find it heavily ironic, that you are on a website that is full of questions from the general public regarding real estate, yet you seem to feel it is obsolete. Apparently, a lot of people don't. Why that makes you so angry is beyond me.
Many of us agree that plenty of people are capable of going without the services of an agent. Some people are do-it-your selfers in all aspects of life. Obviously you are one of them.
And just as obviously, there are plenty of people out there who don't have the time or inclination.
I understand the resentment of the image of agents earning easy big bucks while showing houses driving fancy cars. I suppose there have been times and places that has happened.
My reality, as a fairly new agent, in a busy office is completely different. I'm driving a 2001 Toyota (and most of the other agents are driving used/old cars as well) and there are no such things as 10 hour transactions. I've heard stories of them, but rare isn't even the word. I am trying to juggle 4 kids around a 7 day a week schedule and have actually emailed back and forth with a client at 11:30pm on a Sunday night. There's nothing easy about it.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't been in it long but I think I love this business. I made this choice because I needed flexible hours and I love houses. I knew money was not going to be made for a while and so far, since April, I have made less then I have put out and that's not counting the many hundreds of hours put in with no payoff yet.
So guess what? I have to work HARD at this business and I have to build up a good reputation by being honest, pleasant to be around, professional, all the things that people who are going into business for themselves have to do.
So tell me Mr.Angle Dude, you don't know me, you don't know most agents or their motivation or how hard or not they work or how much or little they do for the people who hire them. You don't know any of this any more than I know about you and your life and motivations. So for someone who tries to come across as an intelligent dude, how do you justify your anger at an entire group of extremely varied individuals because of what I can only assume was a bad experience with one or a few?
You let your anger get in the way of reasoned intelligence and open-mindedness and therefore this debate is extremely one-sided, frankly with you coming across as being on the losing end. There is no discussion taking place here because of your anger.
You aren't teaching me anything and I am here to learn from others, not be hated on.
If you are ever interested in reasonable, respectful, intelligent discussion, then you will become of interest again.
Until then, I would keep your anger to yourself because the way you are presenting yourself is not putting you, and therefore your opinion (which may or may not have validity- who knows?) in the best light.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Fri Jan 15, 2010
Where do people come up with these aliases; "Second O Angle"! What’s the first angle? Are there any angles in O? No – is it clever. I don’t knOw.
What do you need to buy real estate without an agent? This has been answered, market knowledge and access to the legal documents.
OK so you did it and wow! You crow about how you saved 10K. I have got to point out that you got the property for market price, sorry dude. We’re all glad you’re happy and hope that the escrow closes and you are happier than a pig in a - with the purchase. My point is that you will never know if you could have done better with representation. But let’s just hope that you haven’t been sold a dog house.
Little brother, take it from the Primary X Angle – you really are just a chump. A fool wrapped in an ego. Let this thread be your warning - WT . . . mate?
If you’re special, which you obviously are - changing your own brakes etc. (hope you don’t kill someone at a stop sign) then you have to recognize that not everyone is not as special as you. Some folks don’t know a left-handed drill from a right-handed drill.
You’re stuff is really just crud. Here you are crowing about 10K - I’ve saved my clients 75K on a purchase. I saw an opportunity that I exploited. I’ve helped another client by a home for $100K less than market value because the listing agent was an idiot.
You hide behind some stupid alias and pontificate about how special you are but really you’re just writing checks that your abilities can’t cash.
(OK folks I’m sorry for going off. Hope you all enjoy some aspect of the riff. I promise to be nice again another day.)
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Jan 14, 2010
Jed Lane, Real Estate Pro in San Francisco, CA
MVP'08
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