I am unsure of the original answers here but the truth is that WAMU is going to pay someone for that side of the transaction and you might as well take it. You can still do what you want on the deal...why such detest for representation? I hope if works out well for you....I think it is pretty funny that you are aggressively trying to cut everyone out of the deal :)

David Van Noy Jr | (816) 536-SOLD

Thu Jul 31 2008, 19:08

I don't understand why you were looking at properties without your buyer's agent. If you have a buyer's agent, that is the agent who should be showing you properties. Buyers who contact the seller's agent directly usually end up compromising their confidential information and negotiating power.
You will not "save on commission" by doing this either.
The commission is determined by the agreement signed by the seller and the listing agent;
this is not up for negotiation by any buyer.
The buyer's agent will be paid after closing via the seller's broker.
The bank has an agreement in place with the listing agent's broker; I have never heard of a bank's agent doing business with an unrepresented buyer; they don't have the time nor the patience to deal with the additional work involved.
I doubt that you are "stuck" with anyone.
Those of us who represent buyers provide an explanation of agency at the first opportunity, as the law requires.
Successful buyers adhere to the agency agreement.
Buyers who violate the agency agreement are generally time-wasters and I am happy to cancel the agreement with them.

Sun Jul 27 2008, 08:27

I am an agent in Missouri, and I do lots of REO. The banks DO CARE that you have an agent. None of them will deal directly with you on a listed property when the inquiry came through the listing company's advertisements (if you had found the house on the bank's website, that might be a different story--though not usually). To deal directly with you would probably violate the listing agreement. In general, banks never want to hear from anyone other than their listing agent, who specializes in REO. And that means that they don't want to hear from buyers or buyers' agents. Buyers and buyers' agents must go through the listing agent.

My guess is that somebody, perhaps both you and the agent who showed the property to you, are misusing the term, "buyer's agent."

If you do, indeed, have a buyer's agent (that means you have in place a signed buyers' agency agreement with an effective date and an expiration date), you should ONLY USE THAT AGENT any time you are looking at property. If you don't want to use that agent, for whatever reason, you must get released from the agency agreement either in whole or in part, because it is a LEGAL CONTRACT to pay a commission to your buyers' agent on any property you buy during the effective term. You could, under Missouri law, end up owing your buyers' agent a commission in addition to the commission earned by the showing agent--and YOU would be the one paying the buyer's agent commission, not the seller. The seller would still pay their agent and the agent who wrote the contract. The commission percentage is detailed on the listing agreement.

In Missouri, an agent is either a buyers' agent (with a signed buyers' agency agreement in effect), a seller's agent (some real estate companies also allow seller sub-agents), or a transaction agent. When a listing agent sells a property to someone with whom that agent also has a signed buyer's agency agreement, that agent can be a dual agent--ONLY with the written permission of buyer and seller.

If you do not have a signed buyers' agency contract with the agent who showed you the property, that agent can ONLY serve as a transaction broker or sub-agent of the seller's agent (if his/her company allows sub-agency).

When you called and asked the show agent what she needed from you in order to make an offer on the property, what did you have in mind? Were you planning to write your own contract, or what? She wasn't playing games with you, though I'm not sure how she was planning to deal with the buyer's agency issue. You were making noises like you wanted her to write a contract, and that's what she was preparing to do. You had already told her, apparently with some detail, why you did not want to use your buyer's agent--so how else were you planning to present a contract? Maybe you did not mean to play games, but that is the effect of your actions.

Did you expect the agent who showed you the property--and spent over an hour doing that--to work for free? After all, you called HER back.

When you phoned the number off of the sign, did you phone the office number or the number for the listing agent (usually located on a name rider)? Did you ask specifically for the listing agent? Regardless of which number you phoned, if you asked specifically for the listing agent, that's who should have gotten the call. If you wanted the selling agent to get the full commission, you would have to be dealing only with the selling agent.

Commissions are negotiated amounts, not always 3% to the listing company and 3% to the selling company. In fact, in REO transactions, commissions are quite varied and the listing company often gets less than the selling company. Agents are then paid by the real estate companies a a rate determined by their agreement with their broker. If a listing did have a 6% commission, it would usually (though not always) be split 3% to lising company (to be shared with the listing agent according to the rate set by their contract with the brokerage) and 3% to the selling company (who would then compensate the agent who wrote the contract).

To summarize: 1) You had to have an agent to present a contract. 2) Your offer would not be "more appealing" to the seller regardless of who wrote the offer for you, because the seller commission was already set and the seller pays the same commission no matter who writes the offer. 3) If you do have a buyer's agency agreement, don't phone other agents and especially don't ask other agents to show property to you.

Mon Jul 21 2008, 12:23

I did state I already had a buyers agent.
I took the time to explain why I did not want to use him but if I needed one I had him.
My thought was the selling agent would get the full commission in hopes she would be willing to make my offer more appealing.
I decided not to go further with the offer because I don't play games.

Thanks for the feedback,
Jim

Sat Jul 12 2008, 10:49

Jim, what probably happened is this agent was answering phones that day, got your call and decided to show you the home. Did she understand that you only wanted to deal with the seller's agent? If you made that clear, then speak to the broker in the office. Since she showed you the home, she does have procuring cause, which means you are probably stuck with her. I don't know what she was talking about when she said WAMU wouldn't let you represent yourself, because if you dealt directly with the seller's agent, that agent would be a "dual agent" which means they would represent you and the bank..

At the end of the day, the bank will pay the 6% commission and it doesn't matter to them if it's split between their agent and a buyer's agent or if they give the full 6% to their agent. They want the house sold.

Sat Jul 12 2008, 05:38

I don't know anything about agency disclosure in Missouri, but the agent probably has what we call "procuring cause." She has shown you the house and you have been in contact with her since about the property.

The bank is contractually obligated to pay the commission to the brokerage with the listing. They cannot pay you because you are not a Realtor. You cannot get any discount on the commission because you are unrepresented, which is what I assume you are attempting to do.

I have never heard of a bank insisting that a buyer have an agent. I don't think bank's really care. But they don't give the commission to the buyer.

You might not have to submit the offer with her, but she will probably be the agent who gets paid for the work in the end. You can always ask to speak to the managing broker in the office if you have concerns.

Good luck!

Sat Jul 12 2008, 03:20

OK, first and foremost when you are dealing with a REO, you need an agent. These are difficult to do and unless you do them all the time (and even if you do) they are horribly difficult. We have agents in our office who specialize in them who tear their hair out with the convoluted rules and constant changes that the banks throw at them. Trying to do it yourself is stupid. The banks pay the agents next to NOTHING to do these. I wish we got paid 3% for REO's, I've had some I was lucky to get $100 bucks for, and the bank changed the commission on me after we closed and there was nothing I could do about it. The bank won't give you a better deal because you aren't represented by someone else, they will just keep the money and the listing agent (who by the way is often paid a flat fee on REO's not a percentage) wont' make any more money. Most banks do not want to deal with individuals at all - they don't want to talk to you - they dont' want to talk to the agents - it may take 6 weeks or longer to get an answer out of them (I've seen some take 6 months) and they dont' want the buyers bugging them, plus they figure you really won't know what you are doing and they will end up with other legal issues if you are representing yourself, plus they will have to do more work because they figure that you won't know how to process the transaction if you get it since it's not like a regular transaction is and their chances of getting to closing will be less. This is NOT like buying a home from a regular seller. Even HUD refuses to deal with someone who is unrepresented because of the legal issues.

Sat Jul 12 2008, 00:49