My opinion is that it is the duty of the listing agent to show their listings to potential buyers, plain and simple. You have a duty to your client (seller) to sell their house, and as long as you make the buyer aware of your agency relationship it is ethical. I would help a buyer purchase my listing and help them sell their house at a lower rate to make both deals happen. Our company even has a "Buy this house, we'll buy yours" program in this area to help do just that. We need to be creative and flexible in this market to get things rolling again.

Fred...for one percent, how hard do you think your agent is going to work for you? How can he even afford to advertise it if he's making one percent? Seems like you'd be better off making it worth his while!

By the way...the listing agent was all-the-while working for the seller-they did not represent you. Is it possible that if you had buyer representation you could have got the house for even less? I know I go in and beat people up all the time for my buyer clients. Food for thought.

I think it would be foolish for a listing agent not to show one of their listings upon receiving a call from an interested party. I recently decided to look for another house with a broad golf view in the $550k range in Bridgemill, Canton, GA. I looked for those homes listed on MLS that met my criteria and called each listing agent to view the homes. All were very accomodating and pleasant. I didn't reveal any information about my qualifications when I made the appointment. We looked at 4 houses in the Woodstock and Canton area. We made a verbal offer of $550k on one house listed at $629k. Our offer was with a contingency of 90 days subject to renewal, as we would have to sell our current home that we bought in Aug. 2007. That offer was accepted verbally. Before we decided to put it in writing, we went to see another house nearby that was listed at $600k. This was a much better house, much bigger, and in a better street, surrounded by $800k + homes. We verbally offered $525k with a contingency. After some negotiating we ended up at $550k without a contingency for a closing in Sept. 08. We now have a binding contract. The listing agent reduced the commision to the seller to 4%. We don't have a buyers agent. That listing agent is going to charge us 4% to sell our house (3/1%). We will put our house for sale later this month. We got approved for a mortgage and have a commitment letter in hand. Once we sell our house (probably at a loss) we will apply the proceeds towards the mortgage on the newly purchased home. The moral of the story is that an agent really never knows where a seller is going to come from, therefore, it is to their benefit to attend to any prospective buyer regardless of where the buyer comes from or how he got to the agent.

If the buyer has a pre-qualification in hand and is willing to sign an employment with the agent, why wouldnt the agent want to help

however, if the person calls, but doesnt want to commit, I guess I can understand why the agent would not want to waste her time or at least 4.25 per gal gas!

Jared: Well JR, if you don't ask for some form of verifiable info such as the agents that ask for a DL, then you're not doing a very good job of knowing who came into the house. Every agent who ever asked me for info was fine with a "no thank you."

JR: My partner called the police when someone refused to give their name at one of our listings. He was hollering that he had cash and he INSISTED on seeing it. THe homeowner was in the house. She wrote a letter to our manager saying she was pleased with what the agent did.

Jared: This Strongly suggests that they don't care who I am from a security standpoint. At least if you asked for a DL you could convince me that it was security while you scribbled down my address, but if I get a letter in the mail my info was gathered under false pretense. I don't think that most agents who ask for info intend on Ever saying, "well officer, his e-mail is customer@sendmejunkmail.com."

JR: You have criticism for every phase of the process don't you? Did you ever consider becoming an agent? Obviously you would be more competant than anyone else. DId you ever consider that you're stealing from you boss by posting here all day?


Jared: If everyone on the MLS is also your client, you definitely need to call a few of them and tell them your too busy to handle their sale right now and they should seek a new agent. I think what you meant to say is

JR: You have no idea what I "meant" to say. I "meant" to say what I said.

Jared: that you have a duty to show any buyer you represent any listings they may want to see if they are in the MLS regardless of how much/little they pay, and you are obligated to put you homes on the MLS.

JR: Wrong. That is not what I "meant" to say. You see what happens when you ASSUME again? You have no idea about the law of agency, do you?

Jared: You actually said you'd rather "work your listings." than show one. If you can explain that one away, well done. After a comment like that there isn't much you could say that would please me other than, "You're completly right, how could I be so wrong?" That part was accurate.

JR: If you can show me where I said I would rather "work my listings" than show one and maybe I could explain it. I think what you read was I would rather work my listings than work with buyers.

As I am convinced I can tell within 2 minutes into a showing as to whether someone considers my home something they would like to buy if they could, or it is really not the one for them; I can just see it in their eyes, no matter what their buyers agent says or does I have just known immediately.
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That's very true, and if the owner isn't there I can usually tell even sooner, like within 30 seconds. Unfortunately, even though we can both tell it isn't the house for someone, when the owner is home the buyer usually makes an effort to look at everything and ask questions. I'd rather the owner isn't home so the buyer doesn't feel he has to go thru the motions.

With all due respect, those who are not in the real estate business do think, as you do, Jared, that Open Houses are a great place to sell your house.

In reality, JR is absolutely correct. Open Houses rarely sell the property that you're sitting in. But they are a great place to find a new client. Not because we're sitting in the house "trolling for clients"... but because the client comes into the house, we chat a bit, they tell us that this house isn't for them, (it's too big, too small, too expensive, no master bath... whatever), and then we ask a few more questions and they leave.

After they leave, they start chatting, and say "Hey, Elv!s seemed like a nice guy, maybe we should see if he can help us find a place, instead of walking into these open houses every Sunday.

I totally agree with you, that the Open House's main thrust should be promoting the house that you're sitting in, and I object when I walk into an Open House and see "the Elvis Show" on the table, extolling the virtues of the agent, and only 1 single photocopied sheet about the house.

In fact, when a viewer tells me (while I'm sitting an open house) that this house is not for them... do I have anything else that might suit them... I will not talk about other properties, while I'm at that open house. I hand them my card, or take their number, and tell them "once I'm done with this open house, I will contact you (or you can contact me) and I'll be happy to discuss other possibilities... but while I'm here at this open house, my obligations are to promote this home for the seller".

Well JR, if you don't ask for some form of verifiable info such as the agents that ask for a DL, then you're not doing a very good job of knowing who came into the house. Every agent who ever asked me for info was fine with a "no thank you." This Strongly suggests that they don't care who I am from a security standpoint. At least if you asked for a DL you could convince me that it was security while you scribbled down my address, but if I get a letter in the mail my info was gathered under false pretense. I don't think that most agents who ask for info intend on Ever saying, "well officer, his e-mail is customer@sendmejunkmail.com."

If everyone on the MLS is also your client, you definitely need to call a few of them and tell them your too busy to handle their sale right now and they should seek a new agent. I think what you meant to say is that you have a duty to show any buyer you represent any listings they may want to see if they are in the MLS regardless of how much/little they pay, and you are obligated to put you homes on the MLS.

You actually said you'd rather "work your listings." than show one. If you can explain that one away, well done. After a comment like that there isn't much you could say that would please me other than, "You're completly right, how could I be so wrong?" That part was accurate.

Jared:
JR said, "...because open houses is where you get customers." Wrong!


JR: NOT WRONG! Statistically, you have a 2% chance of selling A HOUSE to a customer at an open house, and I don't mean THAT house, I mean A HOUSE. Only 2% of customers to an open house are buyers of anything. Should I be doing open houses 24 hours a days then (with my ONE client since obviously I can't work with two if that's the case), to up my statistics?

Jared: An open house is where you sell a house.

JR: Statistically, not that one.

Jared: Maybe if you didn't distract buyers with "you should let me show you the one with the 4% comission,"

JR: Excuse me, Jared. You are a nasty little guy, aren't you. You are here for no reason at all except to complain. I let my visitors look around and ask them QUALIFYING QUESTIONS because my client is going to pay me if I sell his house to a a QUALIFIED BUYER. When they tell me this house isn't for them, I ask them other questions, what they are looking for in a house and how much and then I think of houses like that. Do you really think any agent knows off the top of their head how much the commission is on any house? You're a real piece of work, Jared.

Jared: you might sell more at open houses.

Also, JR, again, said, "There are customers that we spend time on, trying to stay in touch, sending emails with potential houses, etc, then they call an agent they've never had contact with before and buy." You're LISTING the house in this example. You spend a half hour showing me the house. Assuming of course you don't spend an hour trying to convince me to let you spend all the perviously mentioned time showing me other houses.
The 4000 agent thing is still unexcuasable. I can't wait to hear a client conversation. "If you hire me I'll let 4000 other people show your home. That's why I'm the best!" They can show the house, but you're the one responsible for showing the house. If you want to pawn it off on a realtor doing you a favor that's one thing, but don't act like you don't have to show a clients house unless you'll tell the client that.

JR; That is almost exactly what I say braniac. If you list with me, you have not only the 6,000 (I work for a bigger company) agents of my firm working to sell your house, but the 19,000 agents who work on Long Island. If you restrict showings to just me, you might as well just list with JR Real Estate, one agent, and hope I'm not in the shower when someone calls to see your house.

Let me guess, Jared, you are one of the "me" generation. You want everything your way, now. I'll bet you are a "buyer" who when they call want for the first time wants to see the house "now" and doesn't give his last name or phone number.

Jared:
I strongly feel that if you are getting paid to sell a house, you (or someone who represents you) should go to it with the purpose of selling the house. Putting cards out, your info on the flyers, and/or offering freebies (pens, magnets, etc.) are all wonderful ideas, but soliciting the customers directly is a huge turn off to me.

JR: Then look around, say thank you, I was just interested in this one, is the polite way to go.

Jared:I hate being asked for my personal info,

JR: Then don't walk into my open house. The homeowner expects me to know who came into his property. You would like me to let complete strangers into your home without knowing who was there. Are you aware there are agents who ask for photo ID. Do you realize how dangerous it is for the agent to let strangers in. You really don't care about the agent, though, do you, you only care about what you want.

Jared:
seeing other property info, etc. This is why I'm critical of his statement, "...I give an agent who has no listings a chance to do one, because open houses is where you get customers. I would rather work with my listings, and find when I have too many customers I can't serve my seller clients as well." The open house is his listing. The attitude is not one of serving his client.

JR: Jared, there's absolutely nothing I can say that would please you except "you're completely right, how could I be so wrong?" is there? You do realize I have more than one client, don't you? Do you think this is my only listing? Do you think I have a duty to sell THOSE listings, also? Do you realize that technically everyone who is listed on the MLS is ALSO my client? I'm sure you don't.

Jared,
Thanks for your clarification on the open house position. Yes, I agree, whoever is at the open house should first and foremost be representing the seller's interest. Only, if and when an open house visitor states the OH is not for them, should there be any other discussion. While I respect your position that you do not want to hear about other houses, and I take my cues from the prospective buyer, not all OH attendees share your same views. OH atendees are often looking for and expect the host agent to guide them. Their reasons range from sincere buyer, to buyer looking to pick your brain and use a discount rebater, to FSBO looking to price their home, to potential seller interviewing agents.

Since some OH attendees are going to expect this, I would ask that you be tolerant of an agent's initial inquiry, but commincate your position as being focused only on looking at that property. The OH agent should respecct that once it is known.

On the note of providing your personal information.......You are a guest in someone's personal home. You owe it that seller and agent to identify yourself. You can certainly make note to not contact you.

Deborah

Deborah, That last post was pretty clear and in good judgement. It repeatedly hit on my main point which was that the duty is to the seller. I think we can agree on all the examples you gave in it and I would feel much more comfortable with you as my agent after seeing it.

The prior post referenced my comments with JR about open houses. I strongly feel that if you are getting paid to sell a house, you (or someone who represents you) should go to it with the purpose of selling the house. Putting cards out, your info on the flyers, and/or offering freebies (pens, magnets, etc.) are all wonderful ideas, but soliciting the customers directly is a huge turn off to me. I hate being asked for my personal info, seeing other property info, etc. This is why I'm critical of his statement, "...I give an agent who has no listings a chance to do one, because open houses is where you get customers. I would rather work with my listings, and find when I have too many customers I can't serve my seller clients as well." The open house is his listing. The attitude is not one of serving his client. When I said an open house is where you sell a house I was speaking to the purpose of the open house being to sell that house, not gather clients. I did not mean that it was the only or most probably way of actually selling the home.

This is the list of the 10 examples of buyer inquiries as referenced in the prior post.

1) Some listing agents specialize in representing sellers only and do not want to work with buyers. When a listing agent specializes in seller only representation, the buyer inquiries are redirected to another person in the company that does work with buyers. The agent who takes the inquiry may work as a designated member of the same team as the listing agent, or may have nothing to (directly) do w/ the listing agent other than working for the same company. In this instance, your desire for the listing agent to take you is met by a listing agent who does not work with buyers.

2) Your call may not go to the listing agent, but to the agent on desk duty who is there to assist public inquiries. This agent on desk duty, often has no vested interest in the seller’s property. The agent on desk duty volunteers for this time to secure new leads for that agent to develop business. Their goal is to find a new client, for whatever that client’s interest may be. The agent on desk duty is not going to be paid for the sale of the subject property, unless he/she happens to sell you that property. In this instance, you may look for the desk duty agent to show you the subject property only and have no interest in having that agent represent you, but that agent is looking for clients. (This is why our company has a paid licensed staff. The licensed staff is paid to represent our clients and help any inquirer; and our sellers are pleased to know that representing and selling their property is always first.)

Now….when your call does go to the listing agent, and the listing agent does work w/ buyers……why would a listing agent be reluctant.

1) The listing agent may be concerned that the inquirer has a motive to work with the listing agent to negotiate a lower fee, as Am pointed out. (Agent still has a duty to the seller first, if the buyer is qualified.)

2) Buyer has an agent, but does not wish to “bother their agent” and the listing agent believes the buyer agent should do their job, if they are going to collect compensation. Example: Buyer calls and says, “My Aunt Millie is going to represent us, but she lives 95 miles away and is doesn’t have a lockbox key for this area. Therefore, you need to show us the property.” Listing agents will often take the position that Aunt Millie needs to do her job, if she wants to collect the buyer agent compensation. (Agent still has a duty to the seller first, if the buyer is qualified.)

3) Buyer intends to use a rebate company to write an offer, but expects the listing agent to show the property. Listing agent believes that buyer agent who will get paid should do the work for the buyer. (Agent still has duty to seller first, if the buyer is qualified.)

4) Buyer is not really a buyer, but a FSBO who wants to check out the competing properties for sale. FSBO seller has no agent who can help him/her see properties, so calls the listing agent. Some agents may view this FSBO seller as a potential seller lead, and actually schedule the appointment, utilizing an opportunity to develop rapport with the FSBO. (Agent has duty to the seller, and should deny this appointment; but advise of any public open houses.)

5) Buyer is early stage and seller wants only “now” buyers in his/her property. (Agent has duty to the seller, and should deny this appointment, and invite to an open house, or set up for auto email listings.)

6) Buyer is not really a buyer, but is looking for decorating ideas and heard about the fabulous fireplace and den from a friend. (Agent has duty to the seller, and should deny this appointment.)

7) Buyer is a professional tire kicker. We have a few that have been looking for over 5 years and looking at houses is their main hobby in life. (Agent has duty to the seller, and should deny this appointment.)

8) Buyer is early stage, has not yet found an agent, and seller is flexible about showings or house is vacant. (Agent will probably be very helpful to this buyer inquirer.)

9) Buyer has no pre-qual and advises they are new on job and have no down payment. (Agent has duty to seller, and should deny this appointment.)

10) Buyer is a “now” buyer, has pre-qual, and has no agent. (Agent will ready to pick you up in 10 minutes and take you to see the property.)

Agents really want to sell their seller’s properties, and agents really want to show properties to qualified buyers, or even develop relationships with future buyers. Hope this helps you better understand the mindset of agents and why they want to know about your qualifications and motives. Agents spend a lot of time on non-revenue generating activity and must balance duty to clients, with good business sense.

Deborah

Jared,

Am said he would work patiently with buyers for as long as it took to help them. That has been a recurrent representation by many of the Realtors here.

Most listing agents advertise and promote their listings to attract inquires from the public. Ethical agents put the seller first, and care most about securing a contract at highest and best, regardless if it comes in house or from a cooperative broker. Agents often advertised their listings, in addition to the broker’s promotions, and welcome public inquires.

The inquires, the listing agent hopes, will result in 1) qualified buyers for the advertised property or 2) a potential buyer lead that the agent will develop in short or long order as another client. If that person also needs to sell a property; the inquirer represents a potential buyer and seller lead.

You had earlier made a statement that open houses sold houses when JR said that open houses were lead generators for an agent. I explained that statistically few buyers actually buy the open house, but many leads for new business result. There is value for the seller in the open house. There will be attendees who come, with interest or curiosity about that property. But, it won’t be a good match for the buyer. The same in true for telephone and internet inquiries. Few of the inquiries actually result in the sale of the seller’s property. Yes, it does happen…just like it can happen that an open house visitor buys an open house. On any inquiry, odds are higher that the person will buy nothing, or something other than the property inquired about.

Still, agents and brokers advertise homes for sale (used to be in print, now via internet…often with payment for higher rankings in search returns.) It generates inquiries, which might find a buyer for that property, but might also generate new business leads.

So, if we spend all this time and money to get you to call, why do we not want to take you to see the property? Yet, you have head this a lot. The truth is that we hope you might really want to buy that property, and we hope that if you don’t, we can help you find another property. So, why the reluctance? What goes through the listing agent’s mind when an inquiry is received?
Next post……10 examples of buyer inquiries.

Deborah

Arn, You made a great statement with:
"Typically when buyers say they do not have an agent what is really means is they want to buy through the listing agent and since they are "representing themselves" they want a 3% reduction off the price or a 3% credit in escrow. I do not know you and this may not be your intent but often for other buyers it is. Of course in that scenario, the one agent does all the work and gets half the fee. Understandably an agent is not going to be jumping up and down with glee at this prospect. Does that make sense? "

It does make sense, and thank you for that insight. It ads perspective which is never bad. It is unfortunate that sellers would go around you to cut your commision to strike a deal with an unrepresented buyer. My personal reasons for not using the listing agent have nothing to do with saving money on comission, I just feel it creates a moral hazard. I hope the agent who eventually shows me a home understands that.

The heart of my question is what is you view on showing a home you represent as the listing agent and you provided a reason for some reluctance. I am glad that you can have a no pressure relationship with your buying clients. The market here has made that difficult and it sounds like other buyers nationwide feel similarly. Many agents are putting huge presssure on buyers to move quickly and to move up in price if they can get financing. If I had found an agent like you or Tni I would probably not be asking this question at all but now I feel I will either have to ask an agent after I find a home I like or buy with an attorney so I'm not getting the constant barrage. I feel like many agents have given me bad advice, so my opinion currently is that no advice is better than bad advice.

Jared:

It seems your question has hit a nerve and the tenor of the "conversation" has gotten a little heated.
This is unfortunate as you ask a good question.

Let me give you my perspective based on 30 years in the real estate business.

I tell all my buyer clients:

I can move as quickly or as slowly as you want.
I am in no hurry to sell you a house.
I am more interested in finding the right house for you than I am in making a quick sale.
My business is built on the long-term - building relationships - gaining trust - taking care of people and in turn receiving their repeat business in the future and their advocacy for my business to their friends and associates.
I will show you as many houses as you want. I will go out each week and look for homes that might fit your criteria in terms of location and price range. I will keep you informed as to what is on the market. I will not push you to make a decision. You will make a decision when you feel you have enough data and information and when you find the right property.

In return, I ask for your loyalty. I will be patient and guide you through the process for as long as it takes. But I deserve to be compensated for my efforts. After all, I doubt you work for no money, so why should I? So no matter how long it takes, I will work for you and when you find that right house, I expect you to buy it through me so I am justly compensated for my efforts.

Does this sound like a fair deal to you? You are not wasting my time as long as you make a committment to me. Now if I don't give you time and attention, if I don't keep you posted on the market, if I don't show your property, then I have not earned your business and you are free to go elsewhere. But if I take care of you, I expect to be compensated.

If you or another buyer can not make that comittment then I say Bye Bye and Good Luck - no harm no foul. No hard feelings - I haven't wasted my time and you continue your search in a way you believe to be best - whether your approach is the best way for you, I would argue against but you are entitled to your opinion.

If you do not want to make a committment to an agent then go see the property on an open house - easy and fair to the agent. Why should any agent take time to show you a house when there is no committment on your part when they can show other buyers who have make that committment.? Does that make sense to you?

To put this in concrete terms, years ago I started working with a single woman buyer looking on the SF Peninsula - extreme prices. Let's call her Diane. Diane and I looked together on and off for nearly 18 months. There might be 5 or 6 weeks of concentrated looking and then Diane might be tired of the process or a little frustrated and she would back off for a month or so and then we would hit it again. After 18 months, I found a great townhouse for her in Palo Alto tha thse has now owned for about 7 years. I never became frsutrated with Diane. I knew she wanted to buy. It was just a matter of working through the process - encouraging her - guiding her - supporting her in accomplishing her goal - giving her time to sort through all the conflicting emotions and trade-offs. Diane repeately thanked me for being patient. I aaus no big deal - it is what I do. I knew Diane appreciated my efforts and that when she bought, she would buy through me so no pressure on my end. In the first 6 months of this year, Diane has referred to me two clients who bought resulted in closed escrows - a seller in San Carlos and a buyer in Los Altos.

That is the way I do business.

Typically when buyers say they do not have an agent what is really means is they want to buy through the listing agent and since they are "representing themselves" they want a 3% reduction off the price or a 3% credit in escrow. I do not know you and this may not be your intent but often for other buyers it is. Of course in that scenario, the one agent does all the work and gets half the fee. Understandably an agent is not going to be jumping up and down with glee at this prospect. Does that make sense?

I had dinner tonight with one of the clients Diane referred me this year. They moved here from Columbia 6 years ago. They were unfamiliar with real estate law and custom here in California. They appreciated my efforts - since I took care of Diane and Diane raved about me - this client felt secure and I guided them through the process and through times where their emotions and doubts and fears ran high. This client told me I must have had a minor degree in psychology (actually my Masters is in Physical Chemistry) with the hand holding I did to help them through the process and ultimately make a good decision for themselves. After 30 years, I know how to help people through the process. I do not do it to manipulate them to make a sale - rather I help them make the best decisision for them. The counsel I gave them as the MC commercial says was "PRICELESS".

Hey JR..........this is why I told this guy hours ago......"You should find a for sale by owner....and purchase without an agent at all....Then..you would be happier and have a great experience." Because ,,as you say,,,his attitude is not one that any professional agent would put up with for any length of time........on the other hand....I think he knows this.......and maybe that's why he wants to spend as little time with a good agent as possible. No matter what, if he ever bellies up and makes an offer to purchase, It will definitely be a transaction that no one will forget....
good luck to all of you agents trying to talk sense to Jared.....He has his answer for everything.

JR said, "...because open houses is where you get customers." Wrong! An open house is where you sell a house. Maybe if you didn't distract buyers with "you should let me show you the one with the 4% comission," you might sell more at open houses.
Also, JR, again, said, "There are customers that we spend time on, trying to stay in touch, sending emails with potential houses, etc, then they call an agent they've never had contact with before and buy." You're LISTING the house in this example. You spend a half hour showing me the house. Assuming of course you don't spend an hour trying to convince me to let you spend all the perviously mentioned time showing me other houses.
The 4000 agent thing is still unexcuasable. I can't wait to hear a client conversation. "If you hire me I'll let 4000 other people show your home. That's why I'm the best!" They can show the house, but you're the one responsible for showing the house. If you want to pawn it off on a realtor doing you a favor that's one thing, but don't act like you don't have to show a clients house unless you'll tell the client that.

You people still can't differentiate ready from necessity,
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You waste 1000 words castigating us for explaining to you how we work and then toss this one out. IMO you have an attitude that most agents may not want to spend a lot of time with. People forget that while they are interviewing us to see if they want to work with us, we are interviewing them to see if we want to work with them, also. It goes both ways.

I find this response especially aggressive and annoying because half of you said you regularly work for clients for YEARS. I'm trying to save that trouble for a buyers agent. I understand that my opinion on pre-approval is a hitch, but other than that, it sounds like you just want a quick sale.
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See that's the point Jared. There are customers that we spend time on, trying to stay in touch, sending emails with potential houses, etc, then they call an agent they've never had contact with before and buy. That's why we try to determine motivation. Just because you say you're ready now doesn't mean you've been ready for 2 years.

JR responded to my how often are you houses open with, "Jared, do I tell you how to do your job?

JR: That was after I responded to all your OTHER comments with:

Jared, a homeowner who requires the listing agent to be at every showing is cutting the work for from thousands down to ONE AGENT. I recently had a call from a customer who was coming out for the first time to look at houses over a million. One house I called to make an appointment the agent said absolutely not that weekend as she had to be at every showing. He bought a house that weekend, his first time in the area. So don't be insulted.


Jared: I don't need a flyer, I already found the house. I want to see the property. There are licensed cabbies who can take me to the curb, but I still need an agent to let me in.
The issue of a pre-approval letter is (opinion) just something that came about in the credit crunch because you guys are tired of being jerked around by people who can't afford a movie so they go looking at houses.

JR: No, the preapproval letter has been around a long time. It is a way of having people prove they can afford a house (everyone says "I'm paying cash" in order to get around it, but a MOTIVATED BUYER gets a letter saying he has the cash). Jared, believe it or not, there are a lot of unmotivated buyers around. We "convince" our clients to hire us because we are only going to bring MOTIVATED BUYERS, not a lot of lookers. Our clients want to move "as soon as possible", NOT in the next 2 or 3 years. If you don't want to move in as soon as possible, then you aren't the buyer for this listing. You seem very insulted by that, and every once in a while someone gets their panties in a wad because we ask questions to determine motivation. Sometimes they even go around us directly to our clients who back us up because WE ARE DOING OUR JOBS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now you comment:
You completely dodged the question. but I assume you mean. "I don't do open houses, that is a waste of my time as a full service agent." I would love for a few agents to give me a real answer to this question. I understand that my market is tough and would like to know how other agents handle open houses for clients.

JR: Well Jared, you know what happens when you ASSume, don't you?
I occasionally do open houses, usually my partner does them, or I give an agent who has no listings a chance to do one, because open houses is where you get customers. I would rather work with my listings, and find when I have too many customers I can't serve my seller clients as well. Sometimes I'm out with a customer on a weekend and then comes a sign call "can I see this house?" And oh my it's from you, you want to see my listings and here I am out with customers! That can't be possible, I have to be on call for Jared!

I have organized open house tours in my office, usually on holiday weekends. I've coordinated advertising, drawn maps to distribute to direct people to the other opens. I've sold three of my own listings at open houses recently, so even though they are generally a "waste of time", as you say, if they are set up correctly they can be successful. There is also such a thing as a fluke and luck. 99% of the time you need to bring a good book, or hope they have a 52 inch plasma TV and good movies.

Sylvia, I'm on my way shortly. Posts between 6:45 and 6:45 could be company time, but since we work on a contract without designated breaks, reasonable breaks are allowed. It was an unappropriate, but fair question.

The most important response I have should be first.
The Rotach's have discussed what they expect of their listing agent. This is wonderful. No sarcasm, I hope all sellers do this.
JR responded to my how often are you houses open with, "Jared, do I tell you how to do your job? [I should hope not, or nobody's lights would work.] Perhaps you should get a license because you seem to know our business better than all of us."
You completely dodged the question. but I assume you mean. "I don't do open houses, that is a waste of my time as a full service agent." I would love for a few agents to give me a real answer to this question. I understand that my market is tough and would like to know how other agents handle open houses for clients.

Many people seem to think I'm not ready to buy. This is incorrect. Prices here have finally dropped and I'm completely ready. I just do not have to sacrifice quality for speed. I find this response especially aggressive and annoying because half of you said you regularly work for clients for YEARS. I'm trying to save that trouble for a buyers agent. I understand that my opinion on pre-approval is a hitch, but other than that, it sounds like you just want a quick sale.
Chris commented to Cindy that statistics suggest that people purchase closer to ten houses in their lifetime than 2 houses. That's a wonderful sentiment for thought, but the statistics on how much money people save and the average net worth of people are depressing. Just because other people do it doesn't make it a good Idea. Maybe, if they chose a home carefully, they wouldn't move in 3 to 5 years. Most of these idiots also never own their home since statistically it takes 3 years to pay off the closing and financing costs on your average mortgage. Plus 2 (the first two) you spent paying off the Realtors commission when you sell it. Thats 5 years. All based on lousy statistics and now smart buying.

Next. "I'm looking for an agent to work for me on my terms." Yes! Working for me usually entails doing it on my terms. I didn't sign a contract saying you couldn't walk away, but just the opposite. It seems all too many realtors can't remember where the money comes from. Just because the NAR thinks your worth 6% doesn't mean buyers Automatically want to carry a not on your comission. You are sales people and your first sale should be to the person you want to hire you. Only one buyer has opposed the basic Idea that a Listing Realtor should show the home to an interested buyer. The only hitch I have here is the pre-approval letter, and that is not a big deal for most buyers.
Deborah said, "Your comment about not valuing our staff shows how much you don't understand. We have buyer agents call our staff and ask them specific questions about the property. One of the big consumer complaints in real estate is that when they call an office, the person who helps them on the phone so often has never been to the property, and can only read to them what is on the sheet." The first sentence attacks my response. The second sentence could have been my response. It sounds to me like this is "one of your big consumer complaints in real estate," as you put it. You told me I could call and ask specific questions. Can they answer: "Will my daugters crib go on that east wall?" How about, "Does the house feel like it was put together well and is well maintained without crooked cabinets and loose bannisters?" They just tell me what's on the sheet. The sheet may be longer, but they can't show me the house.
Fred commented, "You should be able to find an agent to work as your buyer's agent that would be willing to set up an email search for you that automatically emails you information on houses as they hit the market. Don't go on a showing until your are ready to buy, but this will allow you to track the market when you are. " This is good advise. You people still can't differentiate ready from necessity, but it's good advice. I had this email list with a realtor before, but trulia provides clearer more usable information for basic preliminary searching (or it did before people stopped listing regularly.)
Then he said, "If you don't want a buyer's agent, and you are not ready to buy, why would any agent want to spend their time and gas with you? Agents get paid commission, do you work for free at your job?"
Again we come the the ready to buy comment, but the answer to this shoud be from the listing agents perspective. You should want to spend the time and gas to sell the clients house. That is what you get paid to do. Sell houses. I don't pay a commision as a buyer. You make that abundantly clear every time I talk to one of you. Sell the person paying you's house!

Just happened upon your response on first page of Trulia voice, so, are you working for the power company now or are you blogging at company time? None of my business of course, but just curious?

Let me try to get caught up, and the first comment is ironically apropriate:
Don stated, "To prove my point....you started this rant yesterday at 2:51 and were up answering this thread as late as almost midnight. Today, you are up at dawn, at it again. "
I started this tread at 2:51 (AM) and continually stayed up at night responding. Yes! I am working the night shift right now. I'm in the power industry and we don't turn the power off at night.

Hi all!

This thread was our most viewed on Trulia Voices within the last week. Thanks to Jared an everyone who shared their thoughts on the matter. We did a blog post on it today and highlighted some of you and your comments.

http://www.truliablog.com/2008/07/07/home-buyer-question-can…

I can't wait to see what next weeks most popular thread will be :)

Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia

You are looking for every agent to work for you on your terms. And, we don't do that. We service our clients.
~~~~~~~
Bravo, Deborah. I would add that our clients have HIRED US for the purpose of dealing with certain situations. If they wanted unqualified people to walk thru their house they could just sell FSBO, but they are listed with a realtor because they want all the services we offer, and one of them is screening inquiries.

First the bad news. The listing agent is bound by ethics to bring only Ready, Willing and Able buyers to the listed house. You are not yet Ready, so you shouldn't be allowed in. That sounds rigid, but it is our duty to the seller.
The good news. You should be able to find an agent to work as your buyer's agent that would be willing to set up an email search for you that automatically emails you information on houses as they hit the market. Don't go on a showing until your are ready to buy, but this will allow you to track the market when you are.

If you don't want a buyer's agent, and you are not ready to buy, why would any agent want to spend their time and gas with you? Agents get paid commission, do you work for free at your job?
Good Luck,
Fred

To the Roatch's:

Where can I find 10 sellers like you! :)

Cindy asked:
------------------------------------
CHRIS..........how long do you think it takes to find the right home. it is a big investment and something you may only do once or twice in a life time. i sure wouldn't want to rush just to save time and pick the first one.

and if you are a cash buyer why would you even have or need a preapproval letter?????????? YOU WOULD NEED THAT BANK STATEMENT FOR PROOF OF FUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistically, people will purchase well more than 1 or 2 houses in their lifetime. (I want to say that the number is between 7 and 10, but don't quote that). If it is truly taking you years to find a home that is right for you, that means that the homes you are seeing are lacking the features that you would like. If that is the case, then you REALLY need to consider building . That is the only way to make the home the way you like it.

Otherwise, you are just a "tire kicker" and not a buyer.

As far as proof of funds...If you make an offer you have to have that proof when the offer is submitted. If anybody had a problem provided proof of funds, then I KNOW that they are not serious. If there is a cash buyer, I really don't want to know your exact net worth. I would take a letter (on letterhead) from a bank official simply stating that you are searching for a home and have SUFFICIENT funds to make a cash purchase......I would be good with that.

Jared,

You are looking for every agent to work for you on your terms. And, we don't do that. We service our clients. You don't want to be anyone's client, but you want every agent to meet you on your terms. We service clients.

Yes, the seller hired me to market, promote, get a contract, guide from contract to closing. Our sellers know clearly that we will decline to personally show property to individuals who are not serious, who are not qualified, or we will not take on as a buyer. The seller hired me, not you, the person who wants to tour the home. If you as a seller, do not wish to hire me or our firm because we will not agree to personally show the property, that is your choice. As a buyer, or touring visitor, that's not your call. But, you want it to me your call, and you think I should work according to your terms. You are, in effect, saying...."I am not your customer, nor your client....but do your job as I tell you that should do it. I am not the seller, but do your job as listing agent as it meets my needs because that is what I want."

When you are someone’s client, you will find the business or service provider will be more receptive to meeting your wants and terms.

Pre-approvals have been a main-stay in the real estate business for years and years.

Your comment about not valuing our staff shows how much you don't understand. We have buyer agents call our staff and ask them specific questions about the property. One of the big consumer complaints in real estate is that when they call an office, the person who helps them on the phone so often has never been to the property, and can only read to them what is on the sheet. Our licensed staff receives calls from buyer agents and consumers and we receive a lot of compliments from agents, sellers and buyers about our service. It is odd that you think that you know everything because you can read a property listing online that has limited info, but buyer agents who read detailed listing sheets still can have questions for us.

We are happy to show our listings to qualified buyers. We are always looking for additional clients and customers. You have clearly conveyed you are not ready to buy, and not interested in becoming a client. So, we might take a pass. You could be not ready to buy, but be interested in finding a good buyer agent…..and that may influence our decision. If I was showing to another buyer, or helping a buyer agent, I would suggest you come at a time just prior or after. In other words, I will meet you at the property if it works easily. I would always invite you to a scheduled open house. If I chose not to personally show you the property, I might even help refer you to another brokerage where someone might. I know of one rather large brokerage that recruits a lot of newly licensed agents, who have more time and less selectivity. I might suggest that route for you. The seller gets his house shown and you get your appointment…providing you meet the seller’s guidelines for showings.

I have to go help real clients now. J

Deborah

You are wrong again. We require all buyer clients to be pre-approved with a lender. This did not just start with the recent economy, but years ago. It started when we took the first person such as yourself, who was just wasting our time and then decided it would be best to make certain that anyone we take to look at homes is as serious about buying a home as we are serious about finding the right property for that person. I think you would be happier simply displaying your attitude in this thread than you would finding a home. You show disregard for the process in it's entirety.
No rational home buyer acts out like you. I think we've all been punked by your fantastic ability to show rude disregard for professionals who have been educated to look out for your best interests. Instead, you would rather carry on your rant about agents and how they don't cower down to your conduct.
Good Luck.

How often are the houses you represent open? Not just that good one, but all of them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jared, do I tell you how to do your job? Perhaps you should get a license because you seem to know our business better than all of us.

That being said, pawning you duties off on the 4000 other agents who can show the home is an insult. Didn't you convince your client to use you, not one of the other 4000 agents?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jared, a homeowner who requires the listing agent to be at every showing is cutting the work for from thousands down to ONE AGENT. I recently had a call from a customer who was coming out for the first time to look at houses over a million. One house I called to make an appointment the agent said absolutely not that weekend as she had to be at every showing. He bought a house that weekend, his first time in the area. So don't be insulted.


Jared: I don't need a flyer, I already found the house. I want to see the property. There are licensed cabbies who can take me to the curb, but I still need an agent to let me in.
The issue of a pre-approval letter is (opinion) just something that came about in the credit crunch because you guys are tired of being jerked around by people who can't afford a movie so they go looking at houses.

JR: No, the preapproval letter has been around a long time. It is a way of having people prove they can afford a house (everyone says "I'm paying cash" in order to get around it, but a MOTIVATED BUYER gets a letter saying he has the cash). Jared, believe it or not, there are a lot of unmotivated buyers around. We "convince" our clients to hire us because we are only going to bring MOTIVATED BUYERS, not a lot of lookers. Our clients want to move "as soon as possible", NOT in the next 2 or 3 years. If you don't want to move in as soon as possible, then you aren't the buyer for this listing. You seem very insulted by that, and every once in a while someone gets their panties in a wad because we ask questions to determine motivation. Sometimes they even go around us directly to our clients who back us up because WE ARE DOING OUR JOBS.

Deborah, I would like to clarify that I never meant you personally needed to show the home, but you should be responible for it being seen. If someone else from you office can show it to me (represent the house and not trying to be my buyers agent) that is fine. I've also stated that there is no need to jump and run to open up the house. I will gladly come when it is convenient for the seller. That being said, pawning you duties off on the 4000 other agents who can show the home is an insult. Didn't you convince your client to use you, not one of the other 4000 agents? As for your licensed staff who can provide detailed information, what's that good for? I don't need a flyer, I already found the house. I want to see the property. There are licensed cabbies who can take me to the curb, but I still need an agent to let me in.
The issue of a pre-approval letter is (opinion) just something that came about in the credit crunch because you guys are tired of being jerked around by people who can't afford a movie so they go looking at houses. If I showed up wanting to see the east side of town for a whole day I'd understand, but simply proving I have the means to purchase the house should be enough. That is all I will do when I go and get a pre-approval, which the last 2 times I've done it wasn't verified anyway. I told my banker some numbers and showed them a check stub. Sound familiar? There is a reason it's PRE-approved and not approved. My issue is I'm sick of having my credit pulled for it. Plus, everytime I show a pre-approval I suddenly find that the search in the MLS is expanded to include those homes that I'm assured I'll just love. The ones that cost 30% more than I currently want to spend and are in areas I don't want to raise my kids.
If you can't appreciate the fact that my avitar is a guy stuck in the sand then you just look a little literally at life. If you want to see a better pic of me, let me know I'll email it to you. (yes I'm the guy in the avatar too)
Activities of a normal buyer include going to look at a home.

Hi Again Cindy,

Yes, I would accept a recent bank statement in lieu of a pre approval letter. :-)

About the buyer agency agreement.......If a buyer told me about a bad experience...as you had.....I would highlight the cancellation clause and the one day clause for their benefit. Many agents do not use buyer agency agreements. For those who do.......the willingness or reluctance of the buyer can be a strong indicator of their commitment or lack thereof. Many agents work strictly on the "feel" of loyalty and trust, although there is a movement away from this and toward agreements....even one day agreements.

As a buyer agent, I want to know how serious a buyer is, that they are qualified, and their time frame. I am very accepting of a long time frame. I want to know what the parameters are so I can meet a buyers needs while balancing my work schedule and meeting the needs of other clients. I just picked up a buyer client who sold their home FSBO and they have a closing in 3 weeks with no where to go. I am still tending to my buyers who are looking to buy in 6 months, but it helps me to balance my schedule to know this.

Loyalty and consideration are reciprocal. And, we're human, we like to know that our efforts are appreciated. Of course, loyalty has to be earned, also.

Hope you find a great buyers agent!

Deborah

My refusal to show my client's listing to you is based on the fact that you have no pre-approval letter from a lender. You simply state all the information about your income and credit, but that is not acceptable to a seller. In this way, I am looking out for my client's interests. You never know nowadays who you might be trying to gain access to your client;s home for other reasons besides a possible purchase.
The pre-approval letter shows that you are completing activities of a normal buyer in process of purchasing. Where I am from, this letter is no charge to a buyer, so you would be out nothing but a little of your time, There are three lenders in town that take your application on line, so it would not be an inconvenience to you. It is only you basically refusing to co-operate with the system in place for buyers and sellers.
And by the way, we do NOT use buyer agency agreements here. We work with clients based on loyalty and trust. You have displayed neither of these qualities in your answers, thus our refusal to work with anyone who behaves in your manner. There are many agents who might work with you....but we would choose not to do so. Life is too short for your aggravation.
Also, Deborah....as nice as you are being.....you are wasting your time trying to talk rational behavior to this person. Although you can just barely see the outline of a person in his photo provided with his profile, you can really see right thru him.
Don

Jared,
I certainly and totally respect your right to not enter a dual agency relationship. Since you are not willing to deal with a different agent, same brokerage, that is even more of a reason for you to have your own buyer agent. If that buyer agent finds you a home that would be under the same brokerage, he/she could arrange for a referral fee for his/her work in your journey to purchase a home.

You perceive that a listing agent's job is to show you or anyone who requests the property. I don't. There are 4000++ agents who can "show" you one of our lisitngs. We pay licensed admin staff to be available instantly to provide detailed info about any of our listings to any agent and to any buyer. A caller is not dependent upon the listing agent to be available. Our support for our sellers and our ability to provide instant info about listings is superb. Our licensed admin staff visit the properties for all of our full service lisitngs. We have express service lisitngs where that might not be true....but most sellers choose full service.

Our services, and our job, is to fully support the marketing, promotion, near instant and thorugh info about our represented properties. Our sellers understand that any one of 4000+ agents can show the listing, and in some cases.......the seller prefers that a cooperative agent shows their property, and not us. Just as you said you do not want a double end deal....some sellers prefer we have limited contact and engagement with the buyer.

When we can, and when the buyer is qualified, yes we show our lisitngs. In our presentation and proposal to sellers, we do not include...." We jump instantly to run over and unlock the door for any person who calls to show your property anytime." When we take a listing, our focus and priority is the seller and the seller's needs. Running and jumping for unqualified buyers is not in our sellers best interest. It's actually insulting to a seller, showing disrespect for the seller and his/her property.

Now, turn the tables and say you want to hire us for a buyers agent, and you will hear how we focus on you, your priorities, your time frame, and how our client relations licensed staff are there for you for months upon months with instant property and market updates, and how committed we are to finding you the right home.

Bottom line......We look for clients and take our fiduciary very seriously.

Deborah

CHRIS..........how long do you think it takes to find the right home. it is a big investment and something you may only do once or twice in a life time. i sure wouldn't want to rush just to save time and pick the first one.

and if you are a cash buyer why would you even have or need a preapproval letter?????????? YOU WOULD NEED THAT BANK STATEMENT FOR PROOF OF FUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jared,

I accept that we agree to disagree...but you have to remember one thing. A seller doesn't want to clean their home, get their kids out of the house, put the pets up somewhere for a couple of hours, just to find out that the buyer isn't and can't be qualified.

When you make this mistake once as a listing agent and then get reamed out by the client when they find out the person was never even able to buy, you don't make the same mistake twice. Part of my job, and my promise to the seller, is that when I show a home that I have listed that I make sure that only qualified buyers are coming in.

It is definately a screening process that most sellers expect.

On the open house front, that is a different beast. In that instance we are casting a wide net (literally fishing) for whatever we can get. Most sellers know that open houses don't bring buyers, but they want to feel like you are throwing everything at the wall.

Chris, Your commmet about a builder is a wonderful idea. It's not what I need but you are the first to recommend it and it's a great option. As to my being prepared to buy in 6 months, I'm fully prepared to buy now. I just don't need to. It is more important to find a house I want. Since I'm looking for a fairly specific area and type I only wish to see one or two houses per month. Open houses in my area are pretty much extinct, you even need an appointment to see several of the new construction model homes (including big names like Lennar). If the houses I'm interested in were open once a month we wouldn't be having this conversation. Speaking to your insistence on a pre-approval letter, I feel we simply disagree and honestly you will not be selling a house to me with that attitude. I don't need to have my credit pulled (some people want a 30 day recent letter) to prove to you that I can buy a house. I feel that proof of greater than needed income and savings should make your eyes light up with all the people who are trying to get financing by the skin of their teeth.
To all who believe this unreasonable:
How often are the houses you represent open? Not just that good one, but all of them.

Tni Le Blanc has exactly the quality I would expect to find in a person representing the sellers. It is not offensive to ask a buyer to come at a time that is convenient for the agent.
Deborah, one reason I would be reluctant to sign a buyer agreement with you is that I believe that double ended representation, even by two agents under the same broker is a moral hazard. You are getting you half from the seller. Part of earning it is to market the house. If you don't want to show it put someone elses number on the flyers, yardsign, and website.
Again, I ask people to look to Tni Le Blanc's attitude for an example of an agent I feel more people would be responsive to.

Jared,

Initially I had doubts about the question, but I think that you have made some very valid points. Many people have responded and SOME of my concerns were partially addressed, but not all....so, here goes!

If somebody calls to see my listing, I first see if they have a Realtor. If they do, then I expect the Realtor to show you the home. If you don't, my next question is "Do you have a Pre-approval letter?" Not a paystub or bank statement, but a pre-approval letter.

I agree that it is my job to show the home to all potential clients. I know that if another Realtor shows it, that I expect that client to be pre-approved.

If you don't have a Realtor, then I expect a preapproval letter....I know that my seller would too! If you don't have it, you are not a potential buyer, simple as that.

The other important point (and the pre-approval letter helps with this) is the professional "tire kicker". Somebody posted earlier that finding a home is a journey and that they had already been looking for multiple years. Now, I would NEVER push a client to buy a home prematurely, but if you are not prepared to make a purchase in 6 months, then you are not yet serious about buying a home. To me, this shows that there is nothing out there that satisfies you, and that your journey should lead you to a BUILDER to build your "perfect home".

There is nothing wrong with taking your time, but if you do, you should probably stick to looking at open houses every week. Otherwise, you are wasting the listing agents time when you know darn well that you are not serious yet (or you are just lying to yourself). Seriously, you need a builder, not a Realtor.

Henry Rollins has a great analogy of "time killers" on his disc "Think Tank", but I digress.

That about covers it, "BUILDERS, THE FINAL FRONTIER"

well she didnt say one day at first.

and mine had no cancellation clause for the buyer to cancel.
you still don't need the paper.
if you show a house and that person goes and buy it thru someone else, you can still get your commission, by complaining to the board.

Hi Cindy,
I am sorry that you have not been treated better by the Realtors you have met. Cindi's buyer broker agreement referenced in her post was for one day, one property. No buyer should get 'stuck" as a result.

If any buyer is in a buyer broker agreement, and the buyer agent fails to deliver, the buyer should execute any and all options to cancel the agreement. The buyer broker agreement that our company uses allows a buyer to cancel at any time, and no reason is required. The properties shown to the buyer durinmg the time period are covered by the agreement. As the Broker for the company, if any buyer contacted me with complaints or concerns about thier buyer agent, I would offer the option of an alternate representative or void the agreement, if that is wha tthe buyer wanted. We use the buyer broker agreement to clarify the relationship, not to trap people against their will. Again, I am sorry to hear that your experiences have been stressful and adversarial.

Deborah

because i signed one for 3months and i was stuck.
and then they didn't do their job, and i had to sit and wait till the stupid contract was up.

i never said you didn't deserve your commission and you would get it, either way, with or without the paper, if you were the one that showed them the property.

Cindy,
A buyer can sign a buyer broker agreement for just one day or just one house. I understand that you might not want to make a long term commitment to someone who you just met. Why would you oppose an agreement that states agent who took you to the property was entitled to be paid on that transaction if you purchased that particular property?

Hi Jared,

I think you are taking the good informed approach - but don't expect most agent's to love you for it! As a buyer's agent, I appreciate my time not being wasted. As a listing agent, I would have no problem with you being up front with me. I would simply have you come by at an open house or after another showing with an active buyer so my time remains well spent. Nothing is wrong with taking your time.

Some listing agents will have a problem with what you are doing because agents get a lot of inquiries from unqualified prospects especially in this market where qualifiying is tough. Having a buyer's agent tells them you are worth an agent's time. Also, some sellers would be furious that an unqualified buyer was toured through their home because they hate having people toured through their home at all. Some are more relaxed about it. As a result, if you don't allow a listing agent "pre-qualify" you may meet with resistance.

Good luck,

Tni

why should somebody sign a buyer broker agreement? what if they refuse? does that mean you won't show them the house?

if you show the house and they buy it thru someone else, you can still go after your commission?

I am more than happy to show a buyer one of my listings.....they must provide a pre-approval letter and a buyer broker agreement for that particular house only...agreeing to use me as their Realtor. I am sorry that you have such a bitter perspective of our industry.