Your best bet is to contact the homeowner directly. A lot of times there not willing or able to pay for the buyer’s agent’s commission or they’ll ask that you pay the buyer’s agents commission and not them. Also we’ve found that a lot of FSBO’s are willing to shave some off their asking price if you’re not working with a buyer’s agent, so don’t be afraid to ask. I would how ever recommend that you hire a competent real estate attorney to review the sales contract and disclosures for any legal issues that might affect your rights as the owner or costing you in some other way. On our site you can hire local pre-screened service providers, including real estate attorney’s, you don’t pay a dime until the service is actually provided. You can also sign-up for automated e-mail alerts on our site. Many of our sellers are willing to give discounts to buyers that are looking to buy direct from the owner, or offer what we call Wholesale pricing.

If i were in your shoes i would first start with a lawyer. because this is a person who you know u will definately need. You could get by without having to pay a realtor commission and all of that. When i sold my condo I had to pay a lot of money in realtors fees (like 6%) and this was pretty recently. If you are looking for a good attorney, I reccomend Rifah Manasra, her office (Manasra & Manasra, PC) is on Central Avenue in Jersey City. She was my attorney for my most recent purchase and I will definately use her again if I ever buy property in the future. I'm pretty sure, however, if you call up any attorney they will guide you on what would be the best next step and probably free of charge (in hopes you will come back to them later to represent you.)

I'm not a realtor, but a lender. You definately need some form of representation, be it a realtor or attorney. Each one gets paid different, so just make sure upfront. A realtor may cost you nothing if the seller will pay their commission.

The first thing would be to see if the seller would pay a co-broke. If not you would need to pay the Realtor yourself. Buying a home from a private party without any representation is a bit scary. You are both too close to the sale/purchase to be objective, not to mention that is doubtful that either of you has the expertise to handle legal contracts, disclosures and other real estate issues.
In Arizona we do not use lawyers in Real Estate transactions so it is a little different.
See more on our site at http://www.ralphandtricia.com

Tony if you "found" the house by yourself while it was listed it is very likely that the listing agent may have a claim against the seller (depending upon the terms of the listing agreement) If that agent were to sue they would likely sue both buyer and seller as it could appear that both of you conspired to avoid paying the fees that the seller had previously agreed to. If the property is a FSBO and has always been a FSBO this should not be a problem. As many posters have said your buyer's agent (or even disclosed dual agent for that matter) will do far more than just help you find the house. Speak with your attorney and ask them if you "need" an agent. Most likely you will be told no. Just as some agents tell their clients that an attorney isnt "needed" (in order to save money). You can certainly hire inspector and get an attorney. Your lender will even have the appraisal work done for you and you can also order your title insurance, purchase a home warranty...

You will have many questions unless you have bought before; ie is the attorney a flat fee or hourly basis? will they disburse funds or will you pay someone else for this? Will they negotiate repairs? Do they have other professionals they can call for estimates like radon mitigation,lead paint,emf,... how much effort will the appraiser put in (if you are putting a lot down or a little how good are the comps)? have you seen comparable homes so you know for yourself that it is a good price?do you have a appraisal clause in your contract? what is normal in a home like the one you are getting as far as condition, price features? Is it an owner occupied 3 family or non owner occupy? when was last state inspection done?shared utilities or seperate?what is the neighborhood like?what is rental status of tenants?their deposits?what is the rental market like in the neighborhood? I could go on but you get the point. You can just buy and maybe get lucky or...
Kenneth "Ken" Verbeyst CRS GRI ABR SRES
Broker-Associate
Prudential NJ Properties
Princeton NJ

Tony, have you been INSIDE the house yet? With an agent or without? Is the house a FSBO or is it listed?

Are we far from the origianal question, or what? Is it a FSBO or not? I think the signifacant point is that in NJ an attorney to review a contract, as Opinion26 for our AG says, is a right that is recommended. If you waive that right, by letting 3 days pass or in writing, you are risking a lot. NJ is not Washington State or Wisconsin etc. And, I do not believe a buyer canwalk away from a closing with money from the transaction that is not on the HUD statement, without risking fraud charges. Everything must be transparent. If it is a short sale the seller walks with no money also.
So back to the question- you can do your due diligence, inspect, have attny draw the contract, (higher fee than for a pre-written pro-forma agreement by an agent), find a loan if needed, (can take a lot of time and is not without risk also for the unprofessional, ocassional buyer) and get by. Frankly most agents would not be interested in shepherding this deal through for a fee (2-3%) because it starts with getting the seller to agree and cooperate, and the buyer to pay the fee I presume. Deals are difficult enough today without such drama as this one. But, it is a slow right now so good luck. That fee is split with the agent's broker by the way. No, you don't need an agent.

I have no ulterior motives here, unlike yourself. The bottom line is, the days of 6% commissions split between agents is in the past. There are numerous options available to intelligent consumers who know their way around the internet. You and other agents like Patrick stand to make significantly less money if consumers learned just how easy it is to close a real estate transaction without a traditional agent agreement. Which is precisely why my posts have been met with such derision and outright hostility by the likes of Patrick.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it's so easy and lucrative, why don't you get your license Harry, instead of just trying to take the food out of my mouth?

Tony, I'm assuming the house is listed with a broker. When did you check the interior of the units, and was it with a real estate agent? Your best bet now would be to speak with an attorney. He/she can determine if you have any real or assumed agency relationships, and advise you further.

Good luck!

The seller was selling the home for $389000 back in April. He's a young man who said he's trying to get rid of the house for his mother. I couldn't afford that price back then and was still looking. Now I seen he is selling it for $289000. Just to give you a little more info. Also the house is in a good area in Jersey City and is a legal 3 Family.

Listen Tony, From this point on the amount of work we are talking about is a few days of paperwork that any real estate attorney will do for a minor flat fee.
~~~~~~~~~~
Harry you keep telling people the pros are lying or don't know what they're talking about, why should anyone believe you?

Hi Everyone,

I think it's time that I chime in with a few reminders about our guidelines. Though it's fine to debate and disagree, exchanges on this board need to remain free of insults and posts should stay on track and provide answers to the question at hand. If these kinds of insults continue we'll have no choice but to start removing posts.

BE CONSIDERATE
The community is made up of many types of people, with different backgrounds, knowledge and beliefs; please be considerate of others and do not attack other community members. Be respectful at all times.

RESPECT THE Trulia Voices COMMUNITY
Every member is entitled to share his or her opinion on Trulia Voices. Do not insult other members because you strongly disagree with their views or for any other reason. Do not engage in hateful discussions, venting or ranting or use inappropriate language. We respect everyone's right to free speech but do not tolerate stalking, threats, harassment or inappropriate self promotion.

Laura, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you ask 'why someone can post that as their website with no checking.' If you can contact me via my profile and let me know, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you,

Emily Gibson
Community Moderator

Paul shows his true ethics by leading Tony to believe that the scenario described would simply result in the "refund" to be applied to your closing costs. This is perfectly legal, and the likes of Paul and Patrick know this. They will continually lie to consumers in order to collect their precious 3% commissions. Sad indeed.

It sounds like Harry has real issues and it sounds a little sad.
He is also suggesting that agents violate New Jersey law by refunding money to a consumer.

JUst notice the FSBO part of your question. Don't worry about the 3% additional as there is no listing agent to take that from you.

Patrick Beringer again feels the need to make false statements and accusations when he is proven wrong on so many occasions.

Listen Tony, From this point on the amount of work we are talking about is a few days of paperwork that any real estate attorney will do for a minor flat fee. To part with 3% of your money for agents like Patrick Beringer would be a colossal waste of money. If you would rather have a realtor close the deal for you, offer them a fee like that of Redfin, they take the 3% the listing agent is offering and refund you 2% at closing. I did just that with a freind of mine who was glad to have made thousands of dollars for a few days of work. If you do go with an attorney, make sure you negotiate an additional 3% off the final agreed upon price with the seller, otherwise the listing agent will just take double commissions.

Patrick will tell you that his services are well worth the extra 2% which could amount to tens of thousands of dollars. this is a person who regularly lies and badmouths his clients behind their backs, underprices his listing so he can do minimal work; (yet his listings still stay on the market for 400+ days!) Makes false profiles and homophobic statements when he is losing an argument, and feels he is worth a 3% commission for this type of "professional" service.

Thanks for that post Paul and Laura. It's nice to know there are sane people out there somewhere. However, it appears that at this time, not only am I still here--My stalker is too: http://www.trulia.com/voices/profile/Home_Buyer-Seattle-350329 It appears he's cleaning up his act--I notice that some of his answers are changing--Some of the sexual innuendo has disappeared from his posts, and some of his more salacious and/or slanderous musings are gone. Just in case, I've been keeping copies of his handiwork. I figure Trulia would have access to every post, even those that have been altered or deleted, but just in case, I've kept screen shots of his handiwork. Hopefully this won't escalate, but you never know. The fact is, there are a lot of weirdos out there. I know of brokers who forbid their agents from meeting with prospective clients without first having them come to the office. More and more, I think this is an excellent idea--And it allows you to obtain a BA agreement as well. But back to the poster's question:

I wanted to comment on Paul's first answer, which I didn't get a chance to do before. It was VERY refreshing to read that comment with regard to what a buyer's agent is for--And it really isn't just to unlock the front door so a buyer can see a house. There's so much more that's involved.

Maybe people ask this question because of the old days when you'd go to a real estate office and look through the book of houses for sale. But the internet has really replaced that (some agencies keep a binder of their listings, but as far as I know, no one actually looks at the binder). Buyers have taken a larger share of responsibilty with regard to identifying properties they're interested in, as well as doing some of the research on them. Some of my clients actually just send me a list of MLS numbers they want to see.

As far as I'm concerned, my job really starts AFTER they've found a house they want to make an offer on. I won't repeat Paul's answer expanding on that as he did a great job already.

I think a lot of people have trouble with the idea that not using a buyer's agent in order to save 3% can cost much more than the 3% they think they're "saving." I also think there are a lot of listing agents out there who don't mind that at all... :)

It appears that they have removed the fake Patrick's comment at least. The real Patrick is still here. AND he seems like a reasonable guy.

Trulia should be able to respond to this immediately. If this does not happen, and we are unable to get an explanation as to why someone can post that as their website with no checking...well you've killed my confidence in this forum.

LOL, thanks Paul--I've been mulling over involving my attorney, but need to wait and see what progresses here. It will probably involve a subpeona for Trulia to get this person's original contact info, which will then probably involve a subpeona for Yahoo or MSN or whatever anonymous email service he's using--What a nightmare that will be, but if his behavior continues, I'll have no choice.

To answer the poster's original question in 3 words: "Cover your a$$." Now that you know the answer, work outward from there. Each transaction is different and price is only one consideration. I don't know the seller in this case, nor do I know the title history or condition of the property. But I do know this: I'm soon going to be buying a house for a family member who lives in another state. Even though I'm a Realtor, I'm not licensed in that state. I guess technically I could do it myself, but I'm going to find a buyer's agent down there and have them handle the transaction for me. Because I know what can happen, I wouldn't dream of entering strange territory to buy a house without a buyer's agent looking out for me. Even if I end up paying more for this (unlikely in this market), it's worth every penny--Much like a home inspection usually is.

Another thing to consider about FSBO's is that they think they're going to get more money by not using a listing agent. That's fine, but you also have to make sure the house is priced correctly as many FSBO's think Zillow will provide them with a market value, which, of course is impossible. A buyer's agent can advise you of the actual market value of the property based on good comps, not just what the seller "feels" it's worth. In most transactions, a buyer's agent's commission is paid by the seller, and even on a FSBO transaction, this will probably be true. Your agent can also ensure the legality of your transaction and can "cover your a$$" with regard to inspections, further negotiation, closing, title issues, etc.

Some transactions are easy, perhaps between close friends or relatives with no hidden issues or agendas, and if that's what you're doing here and you feel confident about it, I would wish you luck. But I don't know you either, so if you're unsure, you're probably better off with a buyer's agent. If you have any friends who are agents, you might want to talk this over with him/her. If you need a referral to an agent in your area, feel free to contact me or any of the other posters on this page.

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for the clarification. I did report it when I made the prior post on the issue. Unfortunately, when I checked http://www.arello.com for the name I misspelled Beringer with an extra 'r' so didn't come up with a licensee hit on the name. If you know the true identity of the person you have a number of grounds for lawsuits - including copyright infringement for copying your photo.

Paul Howard

Hey everyone--The comments above did not come from me. This person ( http://www.trulia.com/voices/profile/Home_Buyer-Seattle-350329 ) has created a fake identity on Trulia using my name and picture and is now posting comments throughout the site.

Here's a link to my REAL profile:

http://www.trulia.com/voices/profile/Real_Estate_Pro-Seattle…

Here's a link to the IMPOSTER's profile:

http://www.trulia.com/voices/profile/Real_Estate_Pro-Seattle…

He has also created a 2nd profile called "(THE REAL) Harry Long", which he used yesterday to make it look like I and another poster stole his identity.

Any posts from me will come from my profile ending in 252707. You can hover your mouse over my name to see which it is.

I know, this is just bizarre. He's a fake "buyer" who is angry because I, along with a few others, called him out as a fraud. Now he's stealing my identity to post garbage throughout this site. I've reported him to Trulia, but they aren't too quick to take action. If you could also report this, it would expedite Trulia taking action.

Sorry about the inconvenience. The views of this psychopath do not reflect my opinions.

Thanks William Holt. A new word. Kind of catchy and it is real. Kafuffle:

Commissions in this industry are way too high and they have to stay that way because:
-----There are too many agents (half don't don't what they are doing but that is a separate matter), the bar to entry is almost nonexistent.

-----Buyers and sellers don't want to pay till a deal is done. (this makes them less careful in choosing an agent)
If fees came in two parts: a non refundable upfront fee and a fee payable at closing commissions could be half what they are and agents would make a decent living, and consumers would get better representation.

-----For the most part buyers can go from agent to agent wasting their and the agent's time so most of the agent's time is unpaid.

Paul Howard

Tony: What a lot of Kafuffle! As a long time Realtor, I feel that I bring something to any transaction in which I am involved. There is, as I'm sure you've guessed by now, a string of things to be done when buying a home. Even doctors often send their own family to another doctor, just so they don't get personally involved and miss something. I sold a house to a contractor and he did his own inspection. He didn't spot that the copper piping was badly corroded by an acidic condition in the well water. It cost a bundle to fix and maintain.

The object lesson is this: Without good advice, you're on your own. If you think you know the ins and outs well, there's nothing wrong with that. If you don't realize it, inspectors, lawyers and others all do a specific jobs but so does the Realtor and the jobs are all different.

Do what you will but keep in mind that you are investing a ton of money and you could end up getting less than you paid for and may not get anything at all if complications arise.

Depends on the seller. If he has no expertise, who will draw up the contract? In NJ you will need a RE attorney to pull together the title documents, protect your interests, deal with the lender's requirements. If the seller says you don't need an agent etc, be careful, very careful. If the seller writes the contract, and you waive your right for attorney review in writing, you better have some smarts in contracts. Good Luck.

Land, THAT is a legitimate answer. You would do yourself more good (actually all of us) if you identified yourself in your profile so your license status can be verified. If you don't do that we don't know WHO you are or if you are a Real Estate pro or not. I have little patience for fakes (or worse) like Patrick, agents that don't know what they are doing (whether they care or not), and people that want to remain unknown. I can tolerate some fake questions because they generate useful discussion but when only one side of a two sided issue is presented that can be a waste of time (though that isn't the issue here). ....getting off my soapbox now.... :)



Paul Howard

For those that do not know: the license status for any licensed agent can be determined by going to http://www.arello.com and entering their name.

Paul Howard

Tony,
be careful who you contact from this site. Patrick is not only not a Realtor, he is pervert which you would find out if you clicked his profile. I'm reporting him to Trulia.

Paul Howard

You might talk to some REALTORS, explain the situation and ask them to serve as an advisor. Yes you'll have to pay them but for this limited service you could negotiate a fair price.
The other option is to hire a qualified attorney, one who's primary field is real estate.

Good Luck!
Laura Giannotta
Keller Williams Atlantic Shore
609-384-6121

Hi Tony, you may want to have a look at the Buy My Place website. It is a great resource to check when buying private real estate and provides fantastic tips and information.

Tony
I like the posts so far.
This will be really simple.

About 10% of homes are sold without a Realtor. I have seen homes sold for less than market value by individuals. On average homes sold directly by owners sell for about 16% less than homes sold by Realtors. But I've also seen homes bought by individuals without Realtors for more than they are worth.

Where do you think you fit in this?

You biggest problem is that you probably don't know . As a matter of fact, on Trulia we sees posts that go like this:
We are selling our home without professional representation. We finally found a buyer. We opened escrow and:
(Pick one of the below that happens)
The buyer wants us to make repairs, we don't think we need to, what shall we do?
They buyer wants us to give him money to closing costs, how much is fair?
The appraisal came in low, we don't have any money to go down on our price.

And...
"I am buying a home on my own. The seller just...
Told us that they want to make the repairs themselves. I am worried I'll lose the house, but what if they don't do the work correclty?
Told us that they want to stay in the house after escrow closes for two months because their home is not finished and don't want to pay any rent?
Told us that they will only pay for part of the termite damage and want us to pay the rest.

The list goes on.

If it were me, I'd suggest hiring an agent. Wouldn't it be awful to find out that you paid too much? Or that there are problem with the property you did not know about?

Do as you like. If you need a referral of an excellent buyer's agent let me know...I can provide one. But just like your dentist or your doctor, they will expect to be paid market rates.

There is a lot more to be done than just finding a home. I would use a realtor to help you determine what you should offer and to move the sale along. You don't want to homeowner to dilly dally with signing the contract after your offer isaccepted, and IMO it's better to have someone other than yourself negotiate any repairs that come up from your engineer inspection. I would also use a realtor so that you don't have to deal directly with the seller. It's better to be at arms length so you don't have to get involved with constant phone calls directly from the owner asking if you want his drapes, or TV antenna (yes, TV antenna, that was one of the call i got from a FSBO I bought from). The FSBO I dealt with also asked for 5 day possession of the property after the closing, which a realtor would have advised against. I let him have it, and the property was not in the same condition as it was on my walk thru before the closing. Based on my own personal experience, use an intermediary.

Hi Tony,

Some very interesting replies!!
A good Realtor can save you a lot of headaches, time and trouble. Could you get the transaction done without a Realtor? Yes, perhaps. It really depends on your expertise and the unexpected road bumps that pop up.

No I’m not a Realtor but I was one for 10 years.

I work with some really great Realtors in Jersey City. I would be happy to refer you to one for a consultation.

If you need a mortgage then give me a call.

Tony Croft
Your Friendly Neighborhood Mortgage Planner
201-943-6800

I doubt that anyone calling themselves "Land Barron" is a Realtor. Apparently that genius missed the fact that none of the people who replied are even in the area or would expect to be involved in his deal. I am pretty sure Tony knows he is under no obligation to use a Realtor but should he. Probably. Of course there are consumers that educated enough in the world of real estate to be the one to come out ahead in a negotiation but most are not. Maybe the seller is - or maybe not. Most FSBO sellers price the house too high. Does Tony know if they did or not? Has Tony seen enough homes that ARE listed to know the value of the one he wants to buy? Maybe. If he has he has already been using the services of Realtors but wants to avoid them being paid for that service. A buyer broker's goal would be to help him get it for the lowest price possible and keep him from being taken advantage of.

There are people in this industry that lower the standard. Many came into the industry in the last few years hoping to make a lot of money without offering any value in return. Many are now leaving - thankfully. If a consumer can avoid the worst of our industry (that would be dual agents) then they may get good representation. They should expect the agent to maintain a confidential relationship of trust. That means not just being fair - it means being an advocate which is what the best of our industry aspire to be.

Paul Howard, Broker
NJHomeBuyer.com Realty
MEMBER: NAEBA http://www.naeba.org

Tony,

Let's look at this situation.....
We have a seller that does not want to work with a realtor and is doing a FSBO.....
We also have a buyer that doesn't want to involve a real estate professional.......

Assuming neither party has real estate sale experience, who is going to do everything that needs to be done? The attorney? The seller? The buyer?

Sounds like a deal that could be on the fast track to the destination of......Major Trouble!

Our advice is if you really like the home and want it.....do it right and get a realtor to support the transaction.

Good luck

Tony,
You should get a realtor. There is a lot of little & big issues that you have to keep track of and do.
Pay the extra money but buy assurance. In fact he/she can save you money too
Best of luck either way

Did you think the major part of a Realtors job was to find you a house? It isn't. In fact, partly it is to present options. Partly, it is to help you negotiate and the Realtor has information and insights that most buyer don't have. Partly, it is to make sure all the things that need to get done to complete the purchase do get done.

They can't be replaced by a lawyer and a home inspector.

And I don't even serve your area. If you decide to use an agent, use a buyer's agent. You can find one at NAEBA. http://www.naeba.org

Paul Howard, Broker
NJHomeBuyer.com Realty
Cherry Hill NJ