Home Buying in Jacksonville>Question Details

Jing, Home Buyer in Jacksonville, FL

Buyer agent open to rebate their commission

Asked by Jing, Jacksonville, FL Sun Aug 12, 2012

I am looking for a buyer agent in jacksonville,FL area who's willing to rebate part of their commission. I am looking for investment properties in the area for a few investors. I dont need full service agent, as i am pretty familiar with the area and do most of the research myself upfront. If you are open to this, please contact me at usinvest0212@gmail.com


Help the community by answering this question:


As I said in an earlier post. A home seller chooses to sell "By Owner" to save the REALTOR fee for themselves and not to give it to the buyer in the form of a lower price. Why on earth would a seller choose to do the work and bear the marketing expense and not benefit from it? Two people can't claim the same money. You sir are the one who is looking at it wrong.

In fact, it IS my money. I receive compensation from the listing broker if and when I bring a buyer who is ready willing and able to purchase the home. The listing broker is paid by the seller based on a listing contract between the listing broker and the seller. I am paid by the listing broker.

There were also alot of mortgage brokers, some not so nice, in fact it seemed like there were as many mortgage brokers as there were REALTOR's before the YSP scam was revealed. Given your current business practices I'll be willing to bet that you took advantage of many borrowers and never explained that they could have gotten a lower rate if you did not take the yield spread premium (YSP) from the lender and just settled on the par rate (the lowest rate not rquiring any discount points).

Now that the YSP is gone you have moved on to offering up other peoples money to entice borrowers instead of making a commitment to close on time with the least amount of stress. 99% of all missed closings are due to lender related issues. Since you are offering other peoples money you are dependant on other people to agree to your terms. I mentioned earlier that this could be unethical based on the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers Code Of Ethics and Standards of Professional Practice:
"The Mortgage Professional shall not offer or advertise terms or conditions that are not available". Are you prepared to pay the REALTOR credit you advertise if you don't get a REALTOR to agree?

I made a comparison earlier about the difference in time spent servicing customers. I will make a very conservative estimate here and say that a REALTOR spends five times as many hours per transaction than a mortgage broker does. Remember, I did both so I know what I'm talking about here. We won't even talk about the driving and working weekends and evenings. (Try to find a mortgage broker in his comfy office on weekends.)

Below is the fee structure for just the origination fee charged by the mortgage broker. Not addressed here are all the other lender junk fees, doc prep, processing, underwriting, etc. Bear in mind, this origination fee is money paid directly from the buyer to the mortgage broker. No mortgage broker, no origination fee.

Loan amounts:
$100,000 @ 1% = $1,000 - A reasonable amount in most cases.
$200,000 @ 1% = $2,000 - Mind Boggling from here down!
$300,000 @ 1% = $3,000
$400,000 @ 1% = $4,000
$500,000 @ 1% = $5,000
$600,000 @ 1% = $6,000
$700,000 @ 1% = $7,000
$800,000 @ 1% = $8,000
$900,000 @ 1% = $9,000
$1,000,000@1%= $10,000

Remember the 5 :1 ratio time comparison from above. If a REALTOR providing full service expends 50 hours in a transaction and earns a 3% percent commission on a $400k sale the fee received would be $12,000 or $240 per hour. If a mortgage broker expended 10 hours (much less most of the time) and charged a 1% origination fee on a $320,000 loan (80% LTV) that broker would receive compensation at an hourly rate of $320. Now that same broker wants to offer 66% of the REALTOR's commission to the buyer which reduces the hourly rate to $79.20. Now who appears to be overpaid?

Your attempts to diminish the value of a professional full service REALTOR ring hollow when the facts are brought out in the open. If all REALTORs did was open doors for buyers then there would be no need for licensure. Most people are not aware of the fact there are two levels of licensure for real estate. "Sales associate" and "Broker". A sales associate cannot operate without the supervision of a Broker. In other words a sales associate cannot open their own brokerage firm. Mortgage brokers on the other hand require only one license. Which profession receives more training? Which profession has fewer bars to entry?

By the way. The MLS is not a free public service. It is a service that is paid for by the members of local REALTOR associations.. The listings and data in it are obtained through the hard work of the REALTOR's who posted them. Guess what. No REALTOR's no MLS. The MLS is available to other websites by an internet data exchange agreement (IDX) because the REALTOR community is very cooperative by nature and wants to give their listings maximum exposure to the widest group of potential buyers. There are many web sites such as REALTOR.com, Zillow, etc. that would not exist without the MLS. Even appraisers rely on the MLS to do their jobs. Do not forget how vital REALTOR's are to the very survival of so many other affiliated businesses.

I think I have made my postion very clear.
5 votes Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
Sean, you make a good point below. Steve will not respond in a manner that does not revert back to promoting his misguided belief that a buyer is somehow entitled to a huge chunk of the buyers agent earnings. Questions Steve has yet to answer:

1. How much does Steve charge his borrowers for his service?
2. How much of his fee does he rebate to his borrowers?
3. Did he ever sell a loan at a higher rate in order to receive added profits from lender paid YSP in addition to his origination fee?

Failure to answer any of these questions is an indication that the answers would not portary Steve as the borrowers friend he claims to be.

Steve pointed out that no other mortgage broker wanted to end this debate. I would point out that no other mortgage broker is participating in the debate or offering up other peoples money as part of his own marketing plan. Steve has chosen to pursue a confrontational relationship with the REALTOR community out of spite and a desire for revenge. You see Steve allegedly lost some customers in the past because a REALTOR stole his customer from him and persuaded the customer to use another preferred lender. Apparently Steve has not been able to instill a sense of loyalty among his customers. If he had, his customers would not be so easily stolen from him.

In Steve's own words: "Yes, a lot of this has come from being the victim of RELENTLESS coercion and steering tactics by realtors over the years who have, in my personal opinion, taken money from my family!" You see, poor Steve is a "Victim".

Now Steve is out to reach into the pockets of REALTOR's and take money from their families under the guise of helping consumers. Steve claims that REALTOR's call him and ask for referrals. If Steve were to get a real estate license, like so many other mortgage brokers have, he could receive a referral fee for those referrals. Then Steve could offer that referral fee as an inducement to use his mortgage broker services. I don't think any REALTOR who has responded in this post would object to such an arrangement. I for one am happy to pay a referral fee to any licensee who I close a transaction with. But wait. That would mean Steve would have to be generous with his own money. We've seen no evidence that he would be so generous.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Steve sent out a very crass and crude email to another female agent - he is being reported. It might be best not to encourage him anymore by engaging him in any way.
Flag Mon Aug 20, 2012
You can probably get a big rebate from the lender, too.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
Now I see where the hostility towards REALTOR's comes from:

"How many realtors feel it’s almost their duty to try and create doubt and discontent between a Mortgage Broker and their borrower who they’ve been working with for 10 mo., only to have a new realtor try to steer their client to their “Preferred Lender” or “In-House Lender?” "

So now Steve is out for revenge by trying to steer his borrowers to his preferred REALTORs willing to forfeit part of their commission to offset his fees. This is why REALTOR's began using Buyer Borker Agreements to prevent the Steve's of the world from creating doubt in the minds of their buyers and enticing them to ditch their REALTOR in favor of someone who must buy customers from him.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
you're clearly a gentleman......thumbs ups from me too!
However, trying to make consumers believe the World is Flat my work on most consumers, but no matter how you slice or dice Realtor Rebates, it's a MASSIVE savings for consumers!
Flag Wed Aug 15, 2012
you're clearly a gentleman......thumbs ups from me!
Flag Wed Aug 15, 2012
I have worked with buyers using cut rate mortgage companies who rely on volume rather than quality service to survive. Because of the need for high volume there is little time remaining to service existing customers. The result is often unhappy stressed customers and missed closing dates.

The same is true for real estate agents. Only the problems associated with low pay and high volume are even more pronounced. This is because the time required to properly service a buyer is far greater for a REALTOR than a mortgage broker. A REALTOR spends many hours working with a buyer before entering into a contract and then spends many more hours coordinating the transaction through the time of closing. A mortgage originator has the borrower do most of the work. The borrower is given a list of documents to collect and asked to fill out a uniform residential loan app (1003). The originator pulls credit, matches the applicant with a loan program and then passes the file off to a processor (who charges a processing fee to the borrow). Easy stuff. A couple of hours on most loans. If you were to calculate compensation based on an hourly rate you will see that mortgage originators are paid much more per hour than a REALTOR. I should know, as a licensed mortgage broker and real estate broker I did both for years. I stopped orignating loans a few years ago when the company I hung my license with went under along with so many others.

It is not my intent to demonize mortgage originators. However I have never implemented a marketing campaign offering to steer my customers to a mortgage originator who will give a credit to help pay my commission. I earn my business by providing superior customer service, not by offering up a portion of another persons income. If a mortgage broker tells you to ask your REALTOR for a "REALTOR credit" to pay his fees I strongly suggest you find another mortgage broker.
3 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
I have not questioned the legality of REALTOR rebates. I hate to be the one to bust your bubble Steve but I have already said that REALTOR rebates are nothing new and that it has been going on for many years. What is relatively new is having a mortgage broker offer someone elses money as part of a their marketing message to consumers. The sheer audacity of that is astounding. If I choose to rebate a portion of my commission it will be my decision, not that of some mortgage broker.

Years ago I saw how much money I was giving up by referring my buyers to mortgage brokers. Instead of asking them to share their income with my buyers I got a mortgage brokers license and began originating loans without YSP's. This allowed me to offer lower rates than most. A real competitive edge. I was amazed at how easy it was. Yes I did earn an origination fee on the loans I originated. I was also in complete control of the transaction. I never used a processor. When YSP's went away that competitive edge was gone and the Mortgage Brokerage went out of business. I decided not to continue originating loans. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that I should benefit from the work of others or offer a portion of someone elses money as an inducement to do business with me.

The business I refer to my mortgage professionals is done so with only one stipulation. That they do the best job they can. My income is up to me and not dependent on me offering anyone elses money to my clients. It sounds as if that is a completely foreign concept to some mortgage brokers.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Flag Mon Aug 20, 2012
Steve-Mortgage Broker,
In response to Jing's question. Jing is not the buyer, Jing is bird-dogging for a "couple Investors". An Important question to you may be do Jing's investors need a loan product or like many investors, are they paying cash?

Or is this just all a question to get Steve's Realtor Rebate discussion going?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Jing, I apologize for the lack of professionalism shown here. This is NOT the norm for my industry. To all those out there who keep this thread alive with petty, inappropriate and off topic comments. If we all stop, he will go away. I looked for a 'contact Trulia' button, but did not find it.

Jing, bottom line is, in real estate, like most things in life, everything is negotiable. With patience, you will find the right people to work with and have a successful team.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
What Steve failed to mention here (perhaps by accident) is that the SRP is unknown at the time of origination which is why it is not disclosed. In addition, any possible SRP the lender may earn if and when the loan is sold does not affect the interest rate you are offered. If the lender chooses to retain the servicing on the loan then there is no SRP because they continue to earn the interest on the loan. Why do banks sell loans? Here is a simple way to look at it. If a bank makes money by loaning money and charging interest on the amount loaned and laons out all of the money they have then they can no longer make loans. In order to continue to make loans they must sell the loans they have to other investors on the secondary mortgage market. Think Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. When the loans are sold they are packaged together and sold in bundles making it nearly impssible to determine the SRP that will be paid for any one loan.

Unlike the yield spread premium (YSP) a mortgage broker is paid at closing. You see if the mortgage broker sells you a loan at, lets say 5%, and receives a YSP you could have received a lower rate on that loan. The amount of YSP is determined by how much higher the rate is on the loan you are sold. If the Par rate was 4.75% then the YSP will be based on the extra .25% the mortgage broker added to your rate. This amount IS known by the mortgage broker at the time your loan is originated which is why it is disclosed on the settlement statement (HUD-1). Since the YSP was seldom disclosed at the time of application and is not a direct charge to the borrower it often went unnoticed by the borrower. Most borrowers did not even care since it did not add to their closing costs. It was just one of those mysterious numbers on the hud that was often glossed over or never mentioned at all. Many mortgage brokers were luring borrowers with the promise of lower closing costs or lower origination fees and then charging a higher rate and making up for those reductions with the YSP paid by the lender. The borrower paid lower closing costs but ending up with a higher interest rate.

Most mortgage brokers do not loan their own money. They meerly match up a borrower with a lender/investor that has money to loan. If you eliminate the middle man (mortgage broker) then you can eliminate the cost associated with that middle man. I suggest that anyone considering using the services of a mortgage broker check this article http://www.mortgage101.com/article/disadvantages-using-mortg… posted on the Mortgage 101 website. Mortgage 101 is a consumer mortgage education website where you receiev unbiased information related to consumer loans and mortgages. The link Steve posted below is an article written by Steve to benefit Steve and mortgae brokers in general. It is understandable that mortgae brokers like Steve harbor a certain amount of animosity towards banks since they can make loans without him rendering the mortgage broker obsolete and unnecessary. Obviously Steve will try to convince you that somehow he can offer you a lower rate on money loaned by those same lenders. For that service you will be charged a fee. Hey, Steve has to eat too right.

Steve and other mortgage brokers claim to have access to a wider range of loan products and can save you from driving around town going from one bank to another shopping for the best rate. That may have been true before loans from lenders all across the country became available on line. Now you can even save yourself a trip to your mortgage brokers office by visitng web sites like Lending Tree http://www.lendingtree.com/mortgage-rates/ and have access to loan products from lenders in the lending tree network of lenders. The advent of the interent is probably the single largest factor contributing to the great reduction in the number of mortgage brokers causing them to seek new careers in related industries such as becoming real estate agents.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sat Aug 18, 2012
I think I will begin a marketing campaign offering mortgage broker credits to my buyers. And Steve, the reason why there are fewer mortgage brokers is that they have been replaced by lending tree and the loan officers at local banks. You are next. Anyone ever buy a house on line? Money is money no matter where it comes from. Why not just order your home loan online and save that origination fee.

Oh, did I mention that no mortgage broker = no origination fee?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 16, 2012
Mr. Lucien, since you seem to be such a leading authority on YSP and Origination charges, please do share with everyone your complete knowledge of SRP (service release premium)

I mean, you do know what this is don't you?

SRP- please, the floor is all yours to educate us...
Flag Thu Aug 16, 2012
Banks and mortgage lenders offering rebates to borrowers paid from REALTOR commissions is nothing new so please don't try to tout this as some new and innovative program only availble through pro-option.com. USAA and Navy Federal Credit Union have been doing it for years. The seller normally pays for the closing attorney so is this program creating another needless expense for the buyer?

I have to think that having such animosity toward the REALTOR community has put you in the .01 % of mortgage brokers who don't receive referrals based on your ability to close loans. It is true that I have "preferred lenders" that I have a good professional relationship with and happily refer people to them. I do so clearly stating that they may not be the cheapest but they are true professionals and will provide great service. Being able to close on time and keeping my buyers happy is important and has value. The mortgage pro's I work with would never suggest trying to recover loan related expenses from me or any other REALTOR.

That's what I have to say.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
yes, said very well from a realtor's point of view
Flag Wed Aug 15, 2012
and you said it very well!!!
Flag Tue Aug 14, 2012
Er...."shilling" his rebate system...
2 votes Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
Looking at listings on the mls I see 4% comm on a $2000. rental? That's not even $50. :( I see 2% comm on so many reo listings. I've been asked for huge chunks of my comm. by some customers. It's gotten crazy out there. Obviously people think we've got lots of money and are willing to work for less money. I've been working 3 times longer and making half of what I was making 6 years ago. It would be great if all agents stood together and said there's a 3% min and NO rebates. But their are realtors hungry for business and will give some comm away to make a comm. It is what it is. Back to the question. No! Notta! No way!
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 13, 2012
While you are at it, make sure the Mortgage Broker participates in the rebate program also. Use exactly the same schedule Steve advises based on price point.

Steve, "Do you rebate according to that schedule?" We want to know so we can send you more business. ;)
Here is how the schedule you published SHOULD READ but you left out your participation"
$150,000 sales price = $2,000 rebate to buyer +
$2,000 Steve the Broker rebate = $4,000
200,000 = $3,000 rebate to buyer +
$3,000 Steve the Broker rebate = $6,000
300,000 = $5,000 rebate to buyer +
$5,000 Steve the Broker rebate = $10,000
400,000 = $8,000 rebate to buyer +
$8,000 Steve the Broker rebate = $16,000
500,000 = $10,000 rebate to buyer +
$10,000, Steve the Broker Rebate, - $20,000. wow!!
$20,000!! Now that will buy some carpet! So Steve are you 'IN" or simply misdirecting the attention of the reader AWAY from lender practices?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 13, 2012
I'm sure you can find someone to help you and I'm equally sure you'll get exactly what you bargain for.

There's not a professional experienced agent working who would rebate any of the commission to you, as they have no reason. The best agents are busy and the rest will do anything for business. Consumers like you limit yourselves to working with agents who haven't figured out what their doing and have nothing else to offer a client except a discounted rate.

Best of luck to you.
2 votes Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 13, 2012
Come on Ron - he politely asked a question...even said "thanks"......no need to jump all over him with a snide retort.
And, he never said he wanted a 50% rebate - just asked if someone was willing to rebate "part" of the commission.

Jing -yes, - there may be agents out there willing to offer you a rebate - especially if you're buying multiple properties ......(and, of course, as long as it is legal in Fl).

Maybe some will come along and share their business plan.

Not sure what your price range is.............but, for example, if it's in the $100,000 ish range, you're probably only talking about a few hundred dollars for the rebate you want.....nothing life changing

So - just make sure getting a rebate won't take away from the level of representation you will be receiving.

Best wishes..........
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 12, 2012
What do YOU do for a living?
Can we work a deal where you do your work, and I get half of YOUR pay?
Why do you think you should be entitled to half of my pay?
2 votes Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 12, 2012
this is not a lecture hall or a personal podium even though it's been turned into that......... if people "contact" you/anyone via email................... contact them back the same way!

No need to announce it on a trulia Q&A thread!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 27, 2012
- since the average agent

Yeah, well - you didn't put any effort into looking behind the numbers.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 26, 2012
I strongly disagree. Always use a Buyer's Agent and here's why...

Dealing only with the Listing Agent in hopes of getting a better deal?
Not a good strategy, because if the listing agent is getting the whole 6%, they’ll actually work harder to make you pay the highest price for their Seller in effort to justify such an massive equity grab!

Dealing only with the Listing Agent and asking them to lower the price 3% they would have had to share with a Buyer’s Agent?

This causes the Listing Agent to catch an immediate attitude! Yes, you can possibly fight with them over the 3%, but you take your eye off the much bigger prize and that’s getting the home for much less by using a Buyer’s Agent! A lower price on the home that using your own Buyer’s Agent could Dwarf the smaller amount obtained fighting with the Listing agent.

The Listing Agent/Seller’s Agent is just that, the Seller’s Agent. They watch out for the Seller’s interests in the purchase. For a buyer to believe they can get a better overall price by dealing directly with the Seller’s Agent is misconception.

Also, what when issues arise after they have your deposit? It’s then the Seller, the Seller’s Agent and the Seller’s Title Agent ALL against the buyer! That’s a pretty strong Trifecta / team to battle should any issues arise!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 23, 2012
Flag Thu Aug 23, 2012
Oh My Gosh!

Now this is the type of Realtor I would consider using if I were a buyer or would feel good about referring a family member to!

Beverly Howe, you seem to be a true Professional!

Well said! :)
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 23, 2012
I have to think Steve thinks this is helping his SEO for his website, what with the cut and paste of the same scenario and the "REALTOR REBATES" in all caps and not answering questions but repeating his cut and paste. It's funny to look back on Steve's hundreds of other comments to see how he twists his product into a question thread that has nothing to do with his product, (like this one) and most end up just as this thread.

Hey Steve, again, what exactly does your product and your $500k cut and paste example have to do with or can benefit old Jing and his investors?
Is this product for investors?
Are many investors buying $500k properties?
How many "agents in your realtor network" are willing to take that cut on the $30k-70k houses that investors in Jax are buying?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Here is a scenario with Steve getting his real estate license and receiving a 30% referral fee from a REALTOR.

Example: A buyer is reloacting to Jacksonville from Clearwater. She meets Steve at a neighborhood event and mentions her plans. Steve says that he knows a great REALTOR in Jacksonville that he can refer her to. Steve says that he can originate loans all over Florida and can get her the best deal on her purchase of a $500,000 home. She agrees and is thrilled that she won't have to deal with anyone she does not know.

Steve sends me a referral form and I agree to pay him a 30% referral fee which he said would go back to the buyer in the form of a REALTOR credit.
Steve also offered to reduce his brokerage fee by .5% on a $400,000 loan.

3% REALTOR commission = $15,000
REALTOR credit from Steve's 30% referral fee = $4,500
.5% reduction in Steve's origination fee = $2,000

Total benefit to buyer = $6,500

While this may be $3,500 less than Steve is offering in his scenario below this example is far more like to become reality and the buyer is more likely to receive the full service they deserve from their REALTOR. Plus this is Steve offering his own money and not someone elses. A noble and generous act. This scenario would also get Steve referrals from his REALTOR associates who will remember the referral and respond in kind. This concept, while not new, has not occurred to Steve because he has chosen to alienate the REALTOR community in his quest for vengeance and retribution.

Please don't view this referral concept as a mortgage brokers nightmare! Rather Embrace Realtor Referrals and view it as a chance to team up with Real Estate Brokers for “their” Buyer Referrals and help the consumer obtain the real deal!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Lucien-You can't beat that deal!

But of course that deal has nothing to do with Jing's question. As, again, Jing likely isn't looking at a $500k investment property and likely doesn't need a lender. But alas...

And after re-reading it, it might appear as Jing is looking to get paid for his bird dogging services from the RE Broker, which may come close to practicing RE without a license. Be careful Jing.

Again, I don't think that will slow Steve down, but hey...
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
the email he sent another agent was disgusting, and shows how clssless he is.......shame on him...I'd l.ove to post it on this thread, but since I am a lady I won't
Flag Mon Aug 20, 2012
Flag Mon Aug 20, 2012
That was my first impression Sean and I would not have responded to Jings question had it not been for the REALTOR bashing comments from mortgage broker Steve. I think I have made my points very clearly and probably won't be wasting any more time on this.
Flag Mon Aug 20, 2012
Lucien Vaillancourt, Broker, Jacksonville, FL Since Steve continues to parade this notion of "Forfeited Equity" here is a question for him. How much equity exists in a short sale? Let me answer. NONE! Do REALTOR's still get paid for selling short sales? Let me answer again. YES! But how can that be you ask? If a REALTOR's fee comes from the equity taken from the buyer and there is no equity to take? Simple. The brokerage fee is paid for a service performed and not dependent on the presence of equity. Next Steve will try to convince you that the short sale lender will sell you the home for less if you don't use a REALTOR. Lets nip that in the bud right now. If a seller decides to short sell their home the lender will REQUIRE them to list their home with a REALTOR. You see those greedy banks have come to recognize that they will benefit monitarily by using the services of a prefessional REALTOR. Banks do not believe the myth of forfeited equity, a term which does not exist in the financial industry vernacular.

The term "Forfeited Equity" is a Steveism created to convince buyers that they are victims being ripped off by REALTOR's taking money that rightfully belongs to them. Steve then comes swooping into the picture like mighty mouse with his cape flapping in the breeze ready to shakedown those greedy REALTOR's and get them to turn over their unjust profits. In an earlier post I exposed Steve's true motivation for this.

I made this point earlier but I feel it is worth repeating. What if Steve were to get a real estate license. He could be paid a referral fee and turn over that money to his borrowers. He would achieve his goal of reducing the money earned by the REALTOR and provide a REALTOR credit to the borrower.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Still waiting on Steve to respond to these questions:
1. How much does Steve charge his borrowers for his service?
2. How much of his fee does he rebate to his borrowers?
3. Did he ever sell a loan at a higher rate in order to receive added profits from lender paid YSP in addition to his origination fee?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
My apologies Steve, I didn't realize Jing was looking at SFR investment properties in the $500k range. Thats got to be a pretty hefty rent to recoup your investment on that kind of money. Thus, your product is probably pretty useful for an investor looking to take on a $500k investment property.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
No, thank you Steve.
Although you completely avoided my comment and question regarding the fact that Jing's buyers, in all likelihood don't need the services of a mortgage broker or your product, I will answer your question of "not one realtor has responded offering to help this consumer Jing with a realtor rebate. Why is this??"...It's because, as I stated earlier, JIng doesn't need a Buyers Agent, if Jing knows the area, is doing the research and is formulating the offers for his/her Investors (keep in mind Jing here is not a buyer but a middleman) if Jing and his/her investors are experienced and are buying good investment properties, they can make their offers what they need to be and skip the step of a buyers agent rebate. Do you think someone thats selling an investment property wont figure out how to get the deal done with and offer of 50k and 2 agents involved or 48.5k and one agent involved.

This is why the RE agents here keep inferring that you actually started this thread to pump your product.
I for one don't think that is what happened here, you clearly have your stuff together wouldn't have such a flaw in a "posed" question.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012


Thank you for your Comment Sir.

If you'll scroll down to all the posts on this thread, not one realtor has responded offering to help this consumer Jing with a realtor rebate. Why is this?? Can't even one realtor see the advantages of offering him something?

Yet, there seems to be a pile on against the poor Mortgage Broker who speaks up to assist the consumer in locating a realtor who offers realtor rebate savings.

Please don't take this wrong, but why is this when a simple Google search of FLORIDA REALTOR REBATES show About 3,730,000 results (0.45 seconds)

Your comments are welcomed.

1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Anyone who wishes for an end, please email dmca@trulia.com
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Rosina (I agree with you) and just so you know - , under each comment is the option to "flag" the comment for several reasons that are proivided in a drop down screen.

Unfortunately, the "flag" button is NOT working on trulia these days (I just reported that), otherwise this forum, imo, could be flagged for being off topic (way off topic, or inapporpriate, as it has been hijacked and become the "Steve Show" and has also become tedious and, imo, obnoxious.

This isna't a lecture hall, it's a Q&A section, and responses should pertain to the QUESTION posted, not promote a personal agenda.

If people, as per Steve, are clamoring for Steve's advce, he can try writing a blog.

(And Steve, just a suggestion - lose the Ma'am" - it's really disingenuous and condenscending)
1 vote Thank Flag Link Mon Aug 20, 2012
Sigh. Then, they leave the ranks of the average, don't they?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
Sure, Lucien - but by definition, the "average" ANYTHING does not (and cannot) have a high (above-average) level of competence.

However, I agree with you that if an agent has enough ability, they won't have to discount their services quite as often.

The adage shouldn't be, "You get what you pay for;" it should be, "You can't help to get MORE than you pay for." Don't expect prime beef from Mickey Dees.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
Home buyer Steve. You make a couple of good points.

One. The "average" REALTOR does not participate in enough transactions to maintain a high level of competence. Those REALTOR's will certainly be the ones jumping at the opportunity to give away their money for the chance at getting a few bucks. Is this the REALTOR you would want working to get the best value from your transaction. Not to mention the fact that an $18,000 annual income certainly means that they are part timers with another source of income.

Two. REALTOR's are not the group of wealthy evil greedy rich people taking "MASSIVE forfeited equity" from american consumers as mortgage broker Steve would have you believe.

You see, mortgage broker Steve is like the Obama administration attempting to use wealth envy to generate ill feelings toward the REALTOR community. The truth does'nt matter. It's the perception he is trying to create. Steve then claims he does'nt understand why "realtors have such an issue with only ONE Florida Mortgage Broker offering to help buyers save thru REALTOR REBATES?" Really? That's what I call oblivious.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
Mortgage Broker Steve has repeatedly referred to the MLS as a "menu". This is a deliberate attempt to diminish the need for the skills of a real estate professional and to create the false impression that all REALTOR’s are the same. In reality the Multiple Listing Service (MLS) is a tool that makes home listing and related information available to it's members. Like any tool the results achieved by using this tool are dependent on the skills of the user. Just because you give a hammer and a saw to someone does not mean they can build a house. A good example of this is the software program Adobe Photoshop. Photoshop is a very powerful photo editing tool that can create amazing effects but can only produce superior results when used by a skilled user. So is the case with the MLS. The MLS has many features designed to allow a skilled user to effectively market properties and to determine accurate market values. It takes skill, experience, and market knowledge to perform a comparative market analysis that represents true market value. This is a vital service to buyers and sellers alike which, if improperly done, can result in paying too much or selling for too little.

Now in contrast a wholesale lenders rate sheet (tables of interest rates and points) is certainly a menu. Only this rate sheet is not freely shared with borrowers on line or by most mortgage brokers. Borrowers seldom see them. Keeping such critical information under wraps gives the mortgage broker a negotiating advantage. Admittedly rate sheets are quite complicated and mortgage brokers don’t want to take the time required to explain them. You will just have to trust that your mortgage broker is getting you the best rate possible with the lowest fees.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
Home Buyer Steve,
If a real, experienced investor wants to do his own research, find his own properties, structure his own deal etc...then he doesn't need a buyers agent at a discounted rate. He doesn't need a buyers agent at all. An experienced investor such as this makes his best offer taking into account the seller knows his agent will get both sides, takes into account that its likely an easy close and cash offer with little to no contingencies. Thus any reasonable seller and listing agent will likely strongly consider a very low cash offer and will likely reduce the listing agents commission to make the deal work. In other words a seasoned investor doesn't need this gimmicky rebate system. A seller knows what the will accept and the investor knows what hes willing to pay. That said I would not recommend working with anyone similar to this mortgage broker just from the impression he is making here. Unprofessional to say the least. And the part thats being missed by the mortgage broker is investors, like the person who posed the question, are paying in cash in larger numbers than ever.

Now on the selling side for investors, I have 2 solid investors that I list properties for a big discount. Listing for quality investors is very easy, they typically are priced right, they know what they are doing and require no hand holding.

But popping up on the internet asking for a buyers agent to give you a big discount for promised volume is just...well...not very likely to happen.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
Home Buyer Steve, I hear what you are saying. Not everybody is a "six percenter." I don't take listings and I only work with buyers so I have never made 6%.

I agree, we Realtors should be flexible. My idea is to have a sliding scale for an investor. No discount the first time for the guy who says "i'm going to buy a bunch of properties." See if he is serious. If so, discount the second one a little, the third one a little more, and so on. That's a win-win, and it keeps buyers honest and gets rid of the tire-kickers and the time wasters. Incidentally, I chage a $1000 retainer for all investors.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Sun Aug 19, 2012
HOME BUYER ALERT! Why pay a mortgage broker a high origination fee when you don't have to. Become a member of your local credit union and save big time. Here is an actual cost breakdown for a loan one of my buyers recently closed on a home purchase. From section 800 (Items payable in connection with loan) on the setllement statement:

Item 801: Origination charge $60.00
Item 802: Points charged for the specific interest rate chosen $0.00
Item 803: Your adjusted origination charges $60.00
Item 804: Appraisal Fee $375.00
Item 805: Credit report $15.00
Item 806: Tax Service $50.00
Item 807: Flood Certification $10.00

Total cost of loan paid by borrowwer $510.00

Ask Steve for a Good Faith Estimate and compare costs. That's what I call a WOW!

The money obtained from your local credit union is just as green as money obtained through a mortgage broker like Steve. I mean really. Money is money no matter where you get it right. Now you can save money by eliminating the middle man. Don't feel bad for Steve though. It's not like he's giving up money he earned because he had no part in your loan and therefore did not earn it.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 16, 2012
Buyers, be aware that the more you borrow, the more the mortgage broker makes! Ever have a mortgage broker tell you are better off investing that down payment money instead of reducing your principal.

Has any realtor suggested that buyers pay more than a home is worth to get a higher commission. Ridiculous.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 16, 2012
just curious why you continue to engage him? he comes across like the worst stereotype of a used car salesman....he is obnoxious, clearly loves his own opinion..... and is taking up way too much space on this forum telling everyone how fabulous he is.......just ignore him .
Flag Thu Aug 16, 2012
We are all waiting to hear how much money Steve is willing to give to his borrowers. He seems strangely silent on the issue. Perhaps he is only free with other peoples money.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Thu Aug 16, 2012
Actually, Steve, you've got a lame rap. We recommend mortgage brokers, not because they work for less, but because they have contacts with the best investors.

How much of your commission do you rebate to buyers?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
>>Since 2006, why have thousands of Mortgage Brokers become realtors, BUT NO realtors have become Mortgage Brokers?

Ummmm.....because we love to work evenings, holidays, birthdays, and weekends?
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
You’re embarrassing yourself and your industry.

@Jing I really apologize for this exposure to the ugliness in this industry, but as you can see not all "professional" are professional. I wish you the best of luck in your real estate ventures and I’m sure you will find a great agent that you can work with. You may want to consider deleting this question to avoid further temper tantrums from Steve in your inbox.

@Lucien I owe you a beer sir!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
I'll take you up on that Rob. Since we are both in Jacksonville.
Flag Thu Aug 16, 2012
Flag Wed Aug 15, 2012
>> But working with buyers - especially so called 'investors' - I'd like to charge double....up front.

Hear hear! (or is it "here here?")
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
Everything is negotiable. You may find that the true professionals (those that can truly help figure out the best deal) will not rebate. But, someone just out of real estate school who is desperate to do any deal will.

Donald Trump states that his team of brokers deserves to make money - he seems to be successful....

I do agree that some commissions are excessive - especially on the listing side. I am definitely open to negotiating those. But working with buyers - especially so called 'investors' - I'd like to charge double....up front.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
No Steve, I don't agree.

Of course you are willing to let a real estate attorney handle it. You're not paying for it so why not. You have already shown how free you are with other peoples money.

Here's another question for you. If a REALTOR is so willing to give up their own money, how hard will they work to ensure their customers get the best value from their transaction? The short answer is, not vey hard. You had better hope you never run out of desperate REALTORs willing to take a 66% pay cut or your business model is toast. I would expect the bottom feeders you associate with have other sources of income. You might want to have a back up plan.

I don't have to convince consumers that professional full service REALTOR's won't agree. I'll let them find out for themselves. A REALTOR who would stoop so low will surely not go the extra mile for their customer. The mindset would be that since the buyer is getting more money than they are then they should do the work. Buyers should be aware of that withoutr being told. It's common sense.

I dare say that your simplistic view of what service a REALTOR provides is a product of the level of service offered by those that buy customers from you.

I also noted that you have not once mentioned anything about your level of service other than your ability to extract a portion of a REALTOR's commision. You are the generic box on the shelf at wal-mart. You get what you pay for.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
I guess buyers are no longer satisfied with FREE professional representation. Now a buyer expects to be paid. I liken this to a defendant on trial who has been provided a free court appointed attorney and then expects the attorney to pay him for the privilege of representing him.

The "GFB" example provided below is not likely to be accepted by any full time REALTOR. Assuming a 6% listing commission with an offer of 3% to a cooperating broker the buyers agent commission would be $12,000. Expecting an agent to give $8,000 to the buyer is sheer fantasy. Clearly this is an attempt to build false expectations and lure uninformed borrowers into a bait and switch situation which could be considered deceptive and unethical.

As I said earlier, any business model that relies on offering up someone elses money cannot stand on its own merits. Look for a mortgage lender that has a reputation for providing exceptional customer service and a documented record of closing on time at the terms agreed. There are bottom feeders in every industry. Learn how to spot them and save yourself some aggrivation.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
geesh give it a rest already

Steve, this forum isn't about YOU!
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
Steve, why do you hate Realtors so much? I am amazed at your consistent attack on an affiliated business partner. Just like any industry, there are those who behave unethically, but to group an entire trade is unprofessional.
1 vote Thank Flag Link Wed Aug 15, 2012
Jing - let me apologize to you , as this thread has been hijacked bit, and seems to have turned into the "Steve Show and Self-Promotion Board"......I, for one, am bored about hearing how how super he and his plan are....

sorry Steve, self esteem is good, but your arrogance and snarky comments are a real turn off (to me).........you might want to tone it down a notch............maybe you'd receive a higher percentage/ratio of helpful answers if you did.

I am just sayin..........
1 vote Thank Flag Link Tue Aug 14, 2012
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