No. I'm asking you how often you take a 20% pay cut. Or how willing you are to take a 20% pay cut.

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Am I the only one not following JR's logic? Agents, would you rather walk away from a sale with 2.5% or 4%?

I don't want to appear to be completely bashing buyer's agents. They're not for me, but you need to decide what is right for you. If you have the time and confidence to search the MLS, do your own comps, do drive bys, visit open houses, make appointments to see homes, you'll be fine. A good real estate attorney can help you with the paperwork (for a low flat fee, not a percentage). Also keep in mind that buyer's agents might not show you FSBO's if the seller is not offering an acceptable commission. Some agents tend to push the properties that are listed by their office. You just have to be careful and choose wisely. Shop around and don't automatically go with the first agent who gets on the phone with you.

Bonnie, wow, I am so sorry you had to go through that. When I work with a buyer, I do everything for them. Find houses that meet their criteria, do comparable market analyses of the ones they really like, research what homes in that neighborhood have recently sold for, find out as much as I can about the subject property and the reason for the sale, write the contract, help them figure out what to ask for, help them arrange and coordinate inspections, negotiate terms for the resolution of unacceptable conditions after inspections, follow up on agreed upon repairs, monitor the document processing, make the closing appointment, everything!
As for your question, Mary:
In the 1990's consumer advocacy groups demanded to have the same representation that sellers of real property had and have to this day. In response, lawmakers formatted the Buyer's Agency. When you enter into an Exclusive Buyer's Agency Agreement with a Realtor, that Realtor owes you fiduciary responsibility to include acting in your best interests. They should do all of the things I mentioned above and give you their professional opinions and advice regarding the real estate transaction. Seek a buyer's agent that you feel comfortable talking to. One who listens to what you want. One who is active in real estate. 80% of the business is done by 20% of the realtors. We are the ones who are on the internet answering questions, holding open houses, attending continuing education classes, keeping up with trends in our area of practice, attending the weekly Agent Tour of Homes, and generally staying up to date in our ever changing local market.
Most will have a Buyer's Book to tell you about what they do. Many will have that information available on their site. All will be happy to meet with you in person to discuss your needs and what they can do for you.
Pick one that you feel good about. Go with your gut instinct.
The advantage for you is that you will have professional representation. The listing, or seller's, agent represents the best interests of the seller. Without a buyer's agent, you are an unrepresented buyer and no one will be protecting your best interests or offering you good advice. The seller and their agent/broker have already agreed upon the commission. It will be paid at closing. if you are represented, the seller's agent/broker will split the commission with the buyer's agent/broker. (usually 50-50, though not always)
If you are unrepresented, the seller's agent/broker will happily check the "unrpresented buyer" box on the real estate contract and keep alll of the commission. So, yes, there is an advantage to buying without having your own professional representation: the advantage is to the seller and their agent/broker.

With real estate transactions you are paid by commission on sales that may or may not happen. You are trying to compare this to a salary situation. This is like comparing apples and oranges.
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No. I'm asking you how often you take a 20% pay cut. Or how willing you are to take a 20% pay cut. I've asked you flat out twice, let's see if you answer this time. I'm not asking about bonuses. You're comparing pay cuts to bonuses and telling ME I'm comparing apples to oranges. Interesting that you think my pay is a bonus. I call it the money I depend on to put a roof over my head.

With real estate transactions you are paid by commission on sales that may or may not happen. You are trying to compare this to a salary situation. This is like comparing apples and oranges.

In real estate you don't have any idea what type of buyer is going to bring an offer to the table. Again, the situation I am describing is NOT a pay cut. Instead of the 2.5% you'd get when an agented buyer is involved, you are getting 4% with an unagented buyer. I don't see what a seller's agent would have to complain about. If most buyers out there are using agents, then it's more likely you'd end up with 2.5%. I'm sure there are unagented buyers who do not bother to ask for a percentage back, but that's their loss. And in this market are you really going to pass up the chance to make a sale? A sale with a 4% commission mind you?

To use your logic, if my boss offered me the opportunity to work with a client who wanted to give me a $7,500 bonus for doing the same job, would I take it? Yes, definitely.

JR, this is not a pay CUT. This is a pay INCREASE because we are not working with an agent. Would you rather get a check for $20,000 at closing when I buy the house or a check for $12,500 when it's an agented buyer?
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When was the last time your boss asked you to the same job you do now, but asked you to work next week for 20% less than usually work? What was your answer?

JR, this is not a pay CUT. This is a pay INCREASE because we are not working with an agent. Would you rather get a check for $20,000 at closing when I buy the house or a check for $12,500 when it's an agented buyer?

If we negotiate to get 1% (that's $5000) at closing, that still leaves 4%, or $20,000 in this example, for the seller's agent. A pretty good deal for everyone involved.
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Really, Swc? How often are you asked to take a 20% pay cut at your job?

Here's my issue with the buyer's agent. I tried to use a buyer's agent and all she did was throw multiple listings searches at me. I was telling her which properties I wanted to see. I was doing the drivebys to check out the neighborhood. I was going to the open houses. That's a lot of work. I thought the buyer's agent were suppose to pick the properties, not me. I was driving through some of the most horrible neighborhoods in town looking at places. Also the buyer's agent never told me what I could or could not offer. I found that information out through sellers agents. They told me about contigencies, they told me about asking for closing costs or buying down the interest rate. I don't know about the ethics of that, but I did say I didn't have a big downpayment and I was concerned about getting a monthly payment above a certain amount and they - the sellers agents -- offered solutions. Maybe that's their job, but it's more than I got from the buyer's agent.

In response to DM's post... using a discount broker and receiving cash back at the closing is certainly an option. What we are considering when we buy, is to negotiate a percentage back at the closing. As unagented buyers, my husband and I would ask for 1% of the 5% commission. So on a $500,000 home, the 5% commission would be $25,000. Normally $12,500 goes to the seller's agent, $12,500 goes to the buyer's. In our case, since we're unagented, the whole $25,000 goes to the seller's agent. If we negotiate to get 1% (that's $5000) at closing, that still leaves 4%, or $20,000 in this example, for the seller's agent. A pretty good deal for everyone involved.

Are YOU a a buyer or seller? Your question doesn't make that clear. If you are a buyer, then you are at a complete disadvantage working with a seller's agent. For example, in NY state, a seller's agent owes you only disclosure and fair and honest business dealings. By contrast,a sellers agent (who shouldn't cost a penny more) owes you Care, Confidentiality, Loyalty, Obedience, Accountability and Disclosure. Why WOULDN"T you choose these enhanced services?
In addition, each time you view a home with a seller's agent, you are working with a different agent. Instead, why not work with your own agent who has your best interests at heart? They can show you the best property among many for you, not try to sell their listing to you.
I hope this helps!
Lisa Halter
Associate Broker
Coldwell Banker Village Green Realty
Woodstock, NY

Many brought buyers by for whom our house was clearly wrong.
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I'm not sure what to say about this. It could have been the first time the agent was out with them. They might have not told the agent exactly what they needed. There are a lot of reasons why buyers look at houses that are wrong for them. Believe me, if I knew which houses were wrong for a buyer, I wouldn't bring them.

I have to comment on Swc's response below as someone who's tried all the approaches described - selling by owner, selling through agent, buying directly, and buying with an agent.

Since the original topic was whether to buy using an agent, I have to say in today's market, where there are so few buyers that a seller can simply not afford to be picky, a buyer above a certain price range has an advantage if they work with a DISCOUNT broker (eg. Territory RE), because the difference in commission comes to the buyer as cashback at closing. My husband and I are about to close on a home where we will get $8380 back from our buyer's broker, who takes a flat fee of $5000.

The reality is that the best approach right now is the one that will allow the buyer to save the most.

Now, as someone who also sold by owner, I have to say that we were fully prepared to list our home for a higher price if we hadn't first found buyers privately.

Bottom line: if there's risk of a bidding war on a property that you like, it's logical that you're more attractive to the seller if you show up without a broker. But if the home you want to buy has been sitting on the market for months and you show up with a discount broker, the seller will be more than happy to accept your bid!

I've been away from this discussion for awhile, but I thought I'd check back in. I just wanted to let everyone know that we (my husband and I) have just sold our house FSBO. It was on the market 104 days without an offer but then on day 105 we had a 3 way bidding war. One of the buyers was agented, the other two were unagented.

We actually accepted the offer of the agented buyer because they gave us the highest price (they were desperate to avoid eviction from their apt. and we were willing to close very quickly because we had already arranged a rental home through my husband's work where we could be tenants-at-will for as long or as little as we need). In our negotiations however we were definitely considering the realtor commission (we were offering 2% to buyers agents). Therefore we considered lower offers from the unagented parties because ultimately that would net us a higher profit on the sale. This is where being an unagented buyer can really help you. Yes, it's the seller who is responsible for paying the realtor's fee, but ultimately that fee is connected to whatever price a seller would accept. In our case, the unagented buyer was bidding around $6500 less than the agented buyer.

I can assure you that in the course of showing our house, I came across a lot of incompetent realtors. Many brought buyers by for whom our house was clearly wrong. One agent, after hounding me for a week about how badly I needed representation, arranged to bring a buyer by. Well, the agent showed up but the buyer never did. We rescheduled. At the second appt. the "buyer" showed up expecting to see a RENTAL house. This is an example of how well realtors can vet potential buyers??? Yeah right. And as far as the buyer's agent involved in the sale of our home? He actually complained to me saying that it wasn't his responsibility to be chasing the buyers down to get their signatures on the P&S. WHAT??? Are you kidding me???

Our situation was special. I am currently an at-home mother and was able to be home to do showings. Obviously I was careful about it. I never showed my house alone. At open houses I am sure we were more vigilant than any realtor would have been as people moved through the house. Many realtors who brought clients by complimented us on how well we showed the house. Yes, because we know it better than anyone. As far as marketing the home we took out a $200 Run-It-Till-It-Sells ad in boston.com, we took out Sunday ads in the Globe, we paid $195 to get listed on the MLS (an entry only agency), we printed listing sheets (much better in layout and information provided than your average MLS listing sheet), we listed on Zillow and craigslist, and we placed a sign in the yard. Oh, and I should add that we hired a real estate attorney to handle the paperwork, etc. for us ($700 fee). We didn't have any trouble separating ourselves from the house emotionally. I suppose if that is an issue for you, I would recommend using an agent. We had the time and motivation to do this ourselves and it paid off. We saved about $10,000 by not using a seller's agent. And did I mention we sold the house for only $900 under our asking price? : )

As we search for a home to buy, we are NOT going to use a buyer's agent. Regardless of the party line that realtors here are touting, an unagented buyer IS more appealing to a seller's agent. Yes, they have a professional responsibility to their clients, but agents are human. They don't get paid if they don't sell houses. If two potential buyers are competing for a house and they both come in with similar offers, and both are backed with solid financing etc, which one is the agent going to favor? Um, the one who is UNAGENTED because that 5% commission all goes to the seller's agent and his/her company. The seller's agent makes TWICE the commission if the buyer is unagented. Simple math, people.

Sorry if I've offended any of the real estate professionals here. I'd definitely employ a buyers agent if I were making a long distance move or if I had to find a house fast. I'd use a seller's agent if I or my husband didn't have the time to commit to the process. Personally though, we preferred to be actively involved in the process of selling our house and ultimately, even in this lousy market, it paid off.

The sellers agent is looking out for the seller! Who is looking out for you, and a buyers agent doesnt get paid by you at all, the money comes from the sellers commsions!

Now, who will work for your nest interest!

What's the happiest day in a boat owner's life?
~~~~~~~~~~
The day you buy it and the day you sell it. But there's a lot of fun in between. Next question?

This is true about anyone who sell anything. Car salesman, boat salesman, computer salesman, copier salesman, insurance salesman, etc. They all tell you they have the best product and they all badmouth the competition.
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Untrue. I sold boats for a long time. I never badmouthed the competition. The owner of my dealership expressly told us not to. We explained how ours were built and how the competition's were built, but never badmouthed them. Why am I not surprised there are lying know-nothings posting their "facts" here as if it were gospel?

This is true about anyone who sell anything. Car salesman, boat salesman, computer salesman, copier salesman, insurance salesman, etc. They all tell you they have the best product and they all badmouth the competition.
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Interesting take on what I said, Joep.

What I actually said was that I wanted the inspector to find any potential problems, so they could be fixed, since it also serves my own interests in case I'm called upon to list the house somewhere down the line.

tman then accused me of being a drama-queen, and now you're accusing me of badmouthing the competition and claiming I have the best product. I don't know where you guys get this stuff.

Mary, good afternoon...

Another good article: http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20070627_secondscam.htm

# Don't buy anything site unseen. No matter what someone tells you, you have to inspect the property with your own two eyes and have it professionally inspected (by an independent home inspector), prior to closing. It's like buying a car, you have to kick the tires.

# Hire your own people to check it out. Never rely on the seller's agent, appraiser, inspector, loan officer, or title company to make sure everything is legitimate. If the seller is a con artist, these people are probably accomplices or at least willing to look the other way.


: ^)

Another fine article for the consumers in the crowd:
http://abuyersinspector.com/buyers.htm

The real estate agent’s recommendation, why question your agent’s recommendation of an inspector? M-O-N-E-Y. The real estate agent only makes a commission if you, the buyer, actually purchase the house. This can, and does cloud their thinking. While there are many honest and conscientious agents in the real estate world, there are too many unscrupulous agents. Pay careful attention to why and how you stand to be duped and otherwise harmed by the agent’s actions. What follows is list of ways ‘your’ agent will ‘lead’ you to a particular inspector that will ‘help’ the agent to convince you to actually purchase the home after it is inspected. The agent simply says “Call this inspector, he is really good” or “I use him all the time”. When you rely solely on this recommendation, you are putting your trust in the person who only makes a commission ($) if you buy the house.

Or…the agent gives you a ‘list’ of 10-20 inspectors for you to choose from. This is fine if the city or town you are purchasing a home in only has 10-20 inspectors. If the city has 100-150 inspectors and you are being given a list of 10-20 inspectors, be very concerned. No matter whom you choose on the list, that inspector is one of a group that the agent wants you to choose from. The list of inspectors may have a disclaimer on it that says ‘This is not the complete list of inspectors available in this area’ or something similar. However, make no mistake, you are being steered to one of the inspectors on the list. Why? There are many reasons why. We’ll talk about a few of them here. It could be that the inspector, without premeditation, performs a sub-standard inspection. He/she is just not experienced or lacks the skill-set to perform an inspection that protects you, the homebuyer. It might be that the inspector is an ‘agents’ inspector. This is the inspector who performs a minimal inspection and verbally downplays their findings so that they can continue to get recommendations from real estate agents. There may be a subtle, yet substantial, financial benefit to the agent. Agents have often recommended an inspector or provided a list of inspectors that have

errors & omissions insurance (E & O). This is a clever way for the agent to recommend a poorly performing inspector that won’t ‘kill their deal’ and then be able to say “Call your inspector, he’s got insurance” when the inspector does, in fact, do a lousy job at the inspection. What your agent won’t tell you is that many inspectors carry E & O insurance that protects the agent in the event of a lawsuit. How does this work? If you ‘choose’ an inspector who has an E & O insurance policy and the policy has a ‘rider’ or provision that pays for the agent’s E & O insurance or deductible, the agent can recommend an underperforming inspector and know that in the event of a lawsuit against the agent, for recommending the inspector and causing you, the buyer, to be led down the path that resulted in you buying a house with defects, there will be no costs, no financial penalties for having steered you to a particular inspector.

Yet another way agents steer homebuyers to or away from a particular inspector is to make verbal comments that the inspector is “not very good”, or “doesn’t know what he/she is doing”, or “he/she is an alarmist”. If you ever have your agent tell you this, ask for them to put this in writing and to give you the name of one or more of their past clients who actually hired the inspector the agent states is “not very good”.

All of these issues can and do come up in the engineer's report. Unless the problems are structural, or there are problems with the heat, electricity, water, air conditioning homeowners in my area do not fix them. Items such as gfis no installed in homes built when they are not required are noted, but homeowners will not be installing them in order to sell. Our code recently added hurricane strapping. Most homes don't have it. Unless the items are required by the town in order to sell. Homeowners do not remedy them. Many homes here were built in the 1800s. They certainly were not built to today's code.

I've been buying and selling real estate for 29 years ... It's not me you need to convince ... it's the rest of the planet.



Excellent article......

How to Deal with Difficult Realtors and the Requirements of Disclosure
by Justin Watts of American Dream Home Inspection
01-05-2008

-- Some realtors do not understand that we are doing our job as home inspectors to disclose defects we encounter and to educate our clients on a properties condition is our duty. Home inspectors do not kill deals, buyers and sellers failing to negotiate the terms of the sale is what kills the deal.

As a home inspector in Southern California, it is in the nature of our profession to encounter difficult realtors, the ones that do not believe in full disclosure when it comes to discovering defects on a property. It is important to educate realtors on the ethical and legal requirements to disclose defects when we are inspecting and reporting them to our clients. Many realtors do not understand the legal ramifications for not reporting defects when observed, and real estate is a very litigous business. There are constructive methods with handling difficult realtors, here are some examples and actual conversations with some realtors....

-- Realtor's question: "The Sellers House was constructed in the 1950's and GFCI outlets were not a code requirement then, why are you stating in your report they should be installed?"

My answer: My clients' safety is my number one priority, and although a home inspection is not a code-compliance inspection, I always recommend the latest new construction code safety requirements including GFCI's on every property and year of construction. It is my duty to inform my client of these safety features, so they can make their own decisions.

-- Realtor's question: Why are you reporting on moisture stains on the garage ceiling that appear to old and are dry and this is going to cause problems for my deal?

My answer: It is my duty to my client and the buyer to report moisture stains that could imply a previous roof or plumbing leak, and they should have any suspicious stains further evaluated by a licensed specialist or obtain information from the sellers regarding any previous repairs, etc. It is my job as a home inspector to observe and report. Stains on drywall may also require destructive testing, meaning removing the drywall to determine the cause of the leak and additional moisture intrustion damage or mold could be present.

-- Realtor's question: You stated in your report, that all the Asbestos ducts confirmed tested and present should be removed from the home and be replaced with newer ducts, this is going to kill my deal!

My answer: My clients safety is my priority, and because asbestos is such a litigous issue, I always recommend that they be futher evaluated by a licensed asbestos abatement contractor. The Environmental Protection Agency states that if asbestos is not damaged or duct material is not friable then it (may) be safe. Since I am not a licensed asbestos contractor, I am unable to make this determination and it is my opinion as a home inspector to recommend the replacement of asbestos ducts for obvious safety reasons. It is my clients discretion and choice to decide what should be done.

In summary, always advise realtors that the buyer is also your client and you have a duty to protect them and protect "everyone" in the transaction. Failure to disclose defects plagues the real estate industry with lawsuits that will result in costly damages that can far surpass any commission. Choose to do business with ethical realtors, ones that prefer full disclosure and whenever in doubt... Just remember these magic words... Disclose, Disclose, Disclose!
Justin Watts, owner and inspector of American Dream Home Inspection based in Rancho Santa Margarita California has inspected over 10,000 properties since 1997 as a City Building Inspector and private Home Inspector. He is certified with the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors and is an ICBO Certified Building Inspector. Justin has also testified as an Expert Witness in home inspection standards of care cases. His motto is, "Inspection For Your Protection". Visit his company website athttp:// http://www.americandreamhomeinspection.net


: ^)

If you're this Knight in shining armor, you won't care if your buyer has Stephen Hawking flown in to do the inspection - yes.?
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Never claimed to be a Knight in shining armor, but thanks. And no, I don't mind if a client wants to fly Stephen Hawking in (although he's probably not a licensed and certified inspector)...

"The problem" is your suggestion that simply because I gave the client a list of inspectors to choose from, that somehow I have an ulterior motive, (and am in collusion with the inspector) which is solely to line my own pockets as quickly as possible, probably to my client's detriment.

If you truly believe that's how most agents (and inspectors) work, I suddenly understand why you have such an ill view of the industry, and clearly, I won't be able to change your mind, so I'll stop trying.

Please, lets stop the drama class ... worrying about a potential "maybe, perhaps, could be" buyer in 5 years is going to be one of the very last things on an agents mind .l.o.l.. they're looking at the calender and seeing when their mortgage payment is due..
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Generalize much?

>>>I have no problem if a client wants to bring in an inspector they found themselves>>>



Please, lets stop the drama class ... worrying about a potential "maybe, perhaps, could be" buyer in 5 years is going to be one of the very last things on an agents mind .l.o.l.. they're looking at the calender and seeing when their mortgage payment is due..

So they're thinking the fastest and easiest way from point "A" to point "B" ..

How fast can they get to closing ... they don't want the deal held up for 5 minutes, let alone another 5 days waiting for the right inspector with the "right" information - and possibly throwing the dice because something was found - and something needs fixed ...or... the buyer gets cold feet.

If you're this Knight in shining armor, you won't care if your buyer has Stephen Hawking flown in to do the inspection - yes.?

If there is no problem, then whats your point..?


: ^)

Bbpp said: "...some listing agents want to be your dual agents and therefore he/she gets dual commission while you loss the advantage to negotiate better price assuming you were saving the buyer's commission fee."
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I've worked both sides of many deals and never done it as a dual agent. My seller client would have to agree that I would represent neither party, and act as a mediary. They're paying me so they want me to represent THEM not no one.

tman, there are only a limited number of inspectors that work in our area, and over the years I've worked with them all. So by your suggestion, the buyer shouldn't use any of them.

I have no problem if a client wants to bring in an inspector they found themselves (that purportedly has no ties to me... but chances are good that I've worked with them before).

I don't agree with your statement that we (Realtors) try to bring in the inspector that will find only "some" stuff. It's to my client's best interests... AND MINE... to find as much as possible... that allows us to not only know what the buyer is up against, in home-ownership, but to negotiate any of the repairs or credits required.

If the inspector should find "terrible" things (ie: a major foundation or structural issue) that makes the house a bad purchase, it gives us the option of pulling out of the deal. I know.. you're going to say that goes against a Realtor's logic... but follow this to it's conclusion.

One day (maybe a year, maybe five years from now), that buyer will become a seller... and they're going to call me and ask me to help them sell that home. I want my client to buy/own a home that I'll be happy to list. NOT a home with a major structural issue... so this is also in the best interest of the Realtor (since I know you won't accept that the Realtor is truly interested in the best interests of the client).

We're not speaking about you .... we're speaking about the consumer getting their own, with no ties with the buyers agent or the listing agent.

Tman:

In my area, it's tough to be a home inspector. There are 2, just 2 that I know of that speak Spanish. I speak Spanish too. I often have buyers who are more comfortable with Spanish speaking attorneys, home inspectors, lenders, etc. If they don't know of a Spanish speaking professional, is it OK if I give them the names of those I know? Or should tell them to find their own?

Bbpp said: "...some listing agents want to be your dual agents and therefore he/she gets dual commission while you loss the advantage to negotiate better price assuming you were saving the buyer's commission fee."

Ridiculous! The seller is paying the entire commission either way: if you don't hire a buyer's agent, or if you do. You can't "save the buyer's commission fee." You can't put in an offer that says "Seller, sell it to me for less since you are not paying the buyer's commission fee." The listing brokerage gets the entire fee regardless of whether you are represented or not.

Bottom line, either you hire a buyer's agent to help you (who gets paid 1/2 the listing commission) or you buy it through the listing agent. If you have a buyer's agent, you get knowledge and experience and he/she gets 1/2 the commission. If you don't have a buyer's agent, the listing agent makes the entire commission. You can't offer a lower price or save yourself any money by not hiring a buyer's agent; you just cheat yourself out of someone advocating for your interests.

We're not speaking about you .... we're speaking about the consumer getting their own, with no ties with the buyers agent or the listing agent.

That's why it's usually a better idea to find the one with the most experience, best reputation that the agents - "don't use".
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I should find an inspector with experience and a good reputation that no one uses? How did they get this stellar reputation if no one uses them? After about 5 closings I probably started running into the same inspectors over and over. There are only so many inspectors. And as I said, I don't pick them and I rarely get asked for names.

>>>Correct, and my clients expect me to be there>>>

That goes without saying.



That's why it's usually a better idea to find the one with the most experience, best reputation that the agents - "don't use".

..commission can be spelled many ways....

: ^)

I forgot to touch on this earlier. Not having your buyer agent at the inspection IS ridiculous. (However, selling agents are not always present...it can be a liability if they discover something and don't reveal it later to future potential buyers). I have only had two deals where I was not at the inspection with my clients, and I can say that without a doubt, those were the two worst negotiations I have ever been involved with. In both cases, the buyers asked for further repairs/compensation based on the results, and having not been there myself, it was like a game of telephone. The inspector said something, my buyer tried to remember (the notes on the report aren't always enough) and relay that to me...things were lost in translation. The listing agent wasn't there either so it became: "my client said the inspector said this" and no one could be certain about anything.
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Correct, and my clients expect me to be there.

I forgot to touch on this earlier. Not having your buyer agent at the inspection IS ridiculous. (However, selling agents are not always present...it can be a liability if they discover something and don't reveal it later to future potential buyers). I have only had two deals where I was not at the inspection with my clients, and I can say that without a doubt, those were the two worst negotiations I have ever been involved with. In both cases, the buyers asked for further repairs/compensation based on the results, and having not been there myself, it was like a game of telephone. The inspector said something, my buyer tried to remember (the notes on the report aren't always enough) and relay that to me...things were lost in translation. The listing agent wasn't there either so it became: "my client said the inspector said this" and no one could be certain about anything.

Again it all comes back to this: IF YOU DON'T TRUST YOUR AGENT, GET A NEW AGENT.

My buyers are always free to use whomever they want for inspectors, lawyers, mortgage brokers...but the deals are ALWAYS less stressful when they use people I recommend. Because they're in my pocket and put my clients best interests at risk just to close the deal? No...because they are honest, trustworthy people who are available when you need them. That's why I recommend them.

Be careful not to let the buyer's agent or seller's agent appear during the inspection, because they may know each other or they have deal with each other.
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Who is going to be present at this inspection? No one except the inspector and the buyer? This is ridiculous.

Agents like to keep the "some" things inspectors on the "A" list ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It doesn't matter what list I have inspectors on. The buyers pick them, usually on the advice of friends or their own attorney. I've RARELY had a buyer ask me to suggest someone. And I never give one name.

Elvis,

This has nothing to do with a "fan thing", never has .. it's a reality thing.

Most realtors keep home inspectors in a pecking order ...

Some home inspectors will see "some" things -- and some, will see a lot more.

Agents like to keep the "some" things inspectors on the "A" list ...

The ones that see a lot .. well, ah, let's just say their number gets missed a lot because they see a lot.


: ^)

Home inspectors vary in quality like Alaska varies in weather... find the one with the most experience, best reputation that the agents - "don't use".
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tman, I know you're not our biggest fan, but I didn't think you were one of the "aluminum hat" brigade that thinks that inspectors (independent ASHI, NASHI certified business folk) would collude with Realtors to mislead their clients and overlook major defects .... purposefully!.

it may be difficult to find an inspector that the Realtors don't use... we use them all!!

>>>"Never use inspectors the agents recommend. I was naive at that time. The house I bought had a bid defect (floor sinks), which the inspector "missed".>>>

Excellent point ..

Home inspectors vary in quality like Alaska varies in weather... find the one with the most experience, best reputation that the agents - "don't use".

: ^)

Mary, if you really trust your realtor and rely her/his honest expertise very much, you can follow your realtors.
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I'll go a step further, Mary. If you don't really trust your Realtor, you shouldn't be using him/her. This is too large a decision to be using someone you don't implicitly trust.

The ideal world is that mostly every person is honest and reliable, but the cruel truth is that this is not the case. For some people like me----- easy to trust people, rely on so-called professionals, always got struck by some unhappy experience. Mary, if you really trust your realtor and rely her/his honest expertise very much, you can follow your realtors. Otherwise, be careful of them! Judge by your own sense instead of trusting them. Buying a house is such a big investment that you have to find a reliable, honest and nice "no pressure" agent, which is difficult. Working with seller's agent is more risky.
You may find an inspector by recommendation of friends instead of agents unless you know him/her honesty level well.

Be careful not to let the buyer's agent or seller's agent appear during the inspection, because they may know each other or they have deal with each other. Never use inspectors the agents recommend. I was naive at that time. The house I bought had a bid defect (floor sinks), which the inspector "missed".
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Personally, I find this overly paranoid. When I recommend an inspector (as a buyer's agent), I usually give the client 3 names of ASHI or NASHI certified inspectors. I am usually present at the inspection, and can help my client understand the inspectors finding.

Inspectors are independent business people, not "beholding" to Realtors. It is not in their best interest (or the interests of their clients and their insurance) to overlook inspection issues!

If your inspector DID overlook a serious structural issue, that's what their insurance is for. You should contact the inspector, and if you can't get a satisfactory response, you may have to take him to court.

Bbpp, sorry about your experience...but I'm fairly certain that on the average, you will end up with a better inspector if you listen to your realtor than if you pick someone at random. In my experience, few people will intentionally recommend shady inspectors, etc...because their own reputation hinges on those recommendations. If your realtor is recommending people who can't do their job properly, then it's probably time to get a new realtor.

Yes, you can do that, but there are limited benefits to do so since some listing agents want to be your dual agents and therefore he/she gets dual commission while you loss the advantage to negotiate better price assuming you were saving the buyer's commission fee. I bought my first house without buyer' agent then it turned out that the seller's agent worked as a dual agent and got double commissions. Be careful not to let the buyer's agent or seller's agent appear during the inspection, because they may know each other or they have deal with each other. Never use inspectors the agents recommend. I was naive at that time. The house I bought had a bid defect (floor sinks), which the inspector "missed".

If you need find a buyer's agent, find a good one. Some bad buyer's agents work "together" with seller's agent and sacrifice your benefit to achieve the deal. Be very careful!

Mary, without dispensing "legal advice" as is prohibited, I'll offer an opinion:
One big advantage to getting your own representation is the actual verbiage attached, in the signed agreement, that provides you with a "standard" that, if not met, could be your future proof that you were not treated with fiduciary in place in a transaction. The presence of this verbiage (found on either the disclosure, depending on your state, or in the contract itself) is protection for you.
If you buy from the selling agent, you are essentially at the mercy of whatever the listing agent shares (or doesn't), with little recourse other than the weak requirement that you are shown "fairness" (subjective).
As a buyer, I'd want a solid indication of exactly WHAT the agent involved is expected to do, so that if things go awry, there is something in writing protecting my interests.

There are VERY reputable agents that give rebates. The rebates have no correlation to the actual work or legitimacy of an agent.

The listing agent is representing the seller. The buyer should have their own representation.

Dan writes: “Also, you may be missing out on getting a buy-side commission rebate by working directly with the selling agent.”
No reputable broker or a company will take a pay cut.
I would run from you and Peter as far as I can.


Dear Swc do you know how much liability are you exposing yourself too? Or how many contracted agents have not seen your home? Or the danger of letting strangers into your home? How much money are you spending on your home marketing? What about the negotiations and your emotional attachment to the property? And I can go on forever.


Dm writes “ We've still had to go in with an agent to some showings because that agent was the listing broker for another property that we found through their agency, but we certainly do not feel the agent represents anyone but the seller in any potential transaction.”

Dear Dm of course they are representing sellers they have a contract with them. Get a buyers agent and you will not have to deal with all different listing agents. You are opening a door to a potential lawsuit and could be out of several commissions. And yes there are bad apples in every profession, but do not be afraid to complain. You have the Licensing Board, Realtors Board and BBB.
Also in most cases when the listing agent says : “This is how low the seller will go“, not only are they unethical and breaking the contractual agreement with the seller, they are usually trying to get the bidding war started. Once the offer is in, they can call up all of the buyers and agents that went through the house, let them know about the offer and ask if they want to bid higher.
ALWAYS OFFER WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH backed by a good market analysis.

I am a real estate agent who used a buyer agent when I bought a property in an area I knew very little about. I used an agent who had many years of experience in that area and actually owned the kind of property I was trying to buy.

If the real estate market is red hot, with multiple offers, no buyer agent is going to get a home for you for 1 penny less than the next best offer. In that situation the only value of a buyer agent is to help you establish the value of the home you want to buy. I've seen buyer agents bring offers above the asking price. In those cases, it was the right thing to do.

If I were buying a home in a red hot market , I really wanted a particular house, I already knew the area well and there were multiple offers, I'd go directly to the listing agent and say " I'm your buyer, you can be the listing and selling broker". I know how to structure an offer so that the listing agent can reasonably say to the seller that my offer was the best and yet I would not be overpaying.

If an issue arose after the offer was accepted and the only way to resolve things was for the real estate commission to be adjusted or put the house back on the market, a commission adjustment is more likely if the listing agent is also the selling agent.

That's not necessarily them revealing more than they should...sounds like they're trying to get you to come up out of the 600's!

It's their job to get you to make as high an offer as possible, so they'll say anything. Even saying "the lowest they would accept would be $700k" might be a total bluff knowing that the seller would be happy with $600k (obviously not the case in this example). Even so, they should be careful doing that in case you were thinking of offering $710k.

Actually, I have had an agent tell me "I was hoping you could get them up to $X." I got my buyers to within $1k of X, after which, the sellers became stuck at $2.5k above X.

Barring a situation where the seller actually told their agent "the lowest I would accept is $X, but don't tell buyers that" and then the agent turns around and tells anyone who will listen exactly what $X is...the listing agent will likely be trying to get the highest price possible, while making you think it's the lowest.

Don't let this make you cynical or anything...in the end, everyone ends up "comfortable" with the final price. If they weren't, then there wouldn't be an agreement!

Thank you again for your comments.

I am looking at a unit that's been on the market for 8 weeks, was reduced from the high 700's to 730 and the seller's agent told me the seller really wants bids that start with a 7, that's the most important thing. Would you consider it acceptable to disclose that to a potential buyer?

Maybe this is completely standard practice and I am misinterpreting it as the agent revealing more than they should to close the deal?