If Nicholas leaves....then that will only leave Paul and Jeff.

I'm out of here!

Nicholas:

Dont do it! Don't leave us here.

Steve, a buyer could save up the cash and not take a mortgage from those greedy banks, but most investors know it's better to play with someone else's money. I paid off my 15 year mortgage 10 years ago by accelerating my payements and then just paying it off from other invesements. What a dismal view some people have of the system that allows them to borrow money, change their residence in whatever way they see fit, and then own it outright. You just sound like an anarchist.

@ Nicholas,

Is that because you've run out of reasons not to buy?

I'm removing this site from my favorites. Good luck everyone.

Nicholas

66 Responses to “As Foreclosure Nightmares Increase, Will More Homeowners Pay Off Their Bankers in Violence?”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/as-foreclosure-nightmares-increa…

1. meanjean Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:43 am

Thank God I only rent an apartment in Hollywood. I wouldn’t dare own anything in this corrupt country.

Reply

blindboy Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Funny thing is, no one else owns anything in this country either. The banks just refer to them as the ‘homeowner’. Nothing could be father from the truth.

Reply

anon Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

Amen – the truth.

The truth is that they own a mortgage financial product that enslaves them for 30 years and have to be 100% responsible for maintaining the underlying asset and buy insurance products to protect the bank.

“home ownership” and 30 mortgages are the greatest scams perpetrated on the masses. It is a complete lie about “home ownership” perpetuated by the corrupt real estate and mortgage industry.

the amerikan dream of “home ownership” is nothing more than a nightmare of buying a fradulant financial product called a mortgage and become the sucker and slave of the system.

Reply

BeTrueSeekTruth Reply:
November 10th, 2009 at 5:49 am

Exactly. Homeowner rarely means that you own the home. It should be more like Home Custodian or Caretaker. Of course, its a job that YOU PAY to have. The chance of owning the property after 30 years of servitude is your payback. Of course by then the lender will have scammed you for at least 2x of the price you bought it for. They will also have lent over 10x the amount of the loan over the life of the mortgage to others, in turn using the value of those loans for profit. Because you are paying all this money you can’t buy other things unless you go even more into debt. By not buying these other things, such as local goods and services, home improvements or business opportunities that could help employ others in the coummunity you are impelled by your indebtedness to refrain from supporting these businesses which in turn, spells a downturn for the local economy. If we all made enough to be able to buy a house outright after, say 5 to 10 years of saving for it the banks would have far less money, far less leverage, and far less power over us. Actually, the banks would have just the right amount of these in terms of an overall healthy economy where the wealth is more equallly distributed.

Reply

scammed Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

I rent my house from the county I live in. I pay over $5,000 in property taxes alone to live in my four bedroom house.

It is so awesome paying the locals for no services other than the use of the roads. Nothing is better than getting nothing in return. The knowledge they can take my house by force is great. They are an awesome landlord. I pay for trash pick-up. The taxes keep going up every year. And they make me repair my own house!

Property taxes rock! Renting my home from the gov is great!

Reply

Payed Offf Reply:
November 9th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

I’m glad that I am basically my own landlord. I have “figgered” out a way to totally avoid property taxes. My property taxes are $47.60 per year. I’m trying to get them to zero. But I love your post!!! You really make a great point. My little brother in upstate NY sounds just like you, butt he pays his “gubsamunts” landlord 7 grand/year.

Reply

BeTrueSeekTruth Reply:
November 10th, 2009 at 8:16 am

Yes my friend I LOVE BIG BROTHER AS WELL. SLAVERY IS FREEDOM! Big Brother was right!!

Reply
2. Patriotgal Says:
November 9th, 2009 at 11:45 am

FIRST!!!!
It would be a real shame if banks started burning, all over the country….

Zimbabwe's has a federal reserve identical to the US model. Both systems are creating unbacked money impoverishing both countries to the benefit of the central bank. You do see food prices rising 20% in 2009....wait until it jumps 100% or 300% as people hoards tangibles. Gravity works just as well in Zimbabwe as it does here.

I did not want to use Zimbabwe as an example since it never was a real economy to begin with...

Argentina at one time was...

Do some research on what happened to Argentina in the 90's that led up to their crash to spot similarities...

Better yet take a gander at the on going hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. Real estate is near worthless while bread is costing upwards of $30 per loaf. Many vendors refuse reserve notes altogether accepting only.....gold.

@ Tim,

I've had a lot of these inflation theory conversations in the past six months.

The problem is with 10%+ unemployment, a skyrocketing federal debt, increased taxes and the majority of our goods manufactured overseas is that if and when the inflation hits.... necessity items such as gas (already rising if you have not noticed) and other imported items are going to cost an arm and a leg.

Kind of tough to pay for on a $1,400 dollar a month max unemployment benefits (for Nevada) ..... much less pay for higher housing costs.

The Fed is in a Catch 22 right now..... raise interest rates and we are screwed. Keep adding to the federal debt with investments returning no money and we are screwed....

Do some research on what happened to Argentina in the 90's that led up to their crash to spot similarities...

Personally.... I don't see any small businesses having a bright future right now and small businesses are what really contribute to a local real estate market. Big Wall St. bonuses, Adding federal govt. jobs in Washington D.C., McDonalds or Wal-Mart profits certainly don't help Any town U.S.A.....

Those buying today are purchasing assets that are grossly overvalued. For gold to reach its inflation adjusted all time high it will have to print $2200.00/oz this year. Unfortunately very few Americans get it and will thus continue to get mauled by a multi decade bear market in real estate.

Two or more generations ago Americans knew how to acquire and protect wealth. Nowadays they know how to in-debt themselves straight into poverty.

Remember, those that end up with the gold will be making all the rules for those without the gold.

Rent until prices come way down(years to come).

I understand you point. My thinking is that inflation has not really hit us hard yet, but many people believe that it will in the near future. If that is the case, people often rush to buy hard assets.

In many markets people can easily buy a house right now for monthly payments of less than $2,000, or equal to or less than the cost of a trip to the grocery store in your example of inflated prices.

Will you buy real estate when a trip to the grocery stores sets you back $2000 or more? Sure but at much reduced prices. The rush to get out of dollars into liquid tangibles has begun. Houses are just not very liquid at anywhere near current valuations.

Steve,

Isn't that counter-intuitive? Gold rising is usually an indication of inflation, and in times of inflation people tend to pour their money into hard assets such as homes because they can lock their mortgage in today's dollars.

Prediction:

Going forward gold will double in price to North of $2000.

Simultaneously home prices will crater 50 to 75% from current levels.

Buying the wrong asset could cost you your financial health.

Fuuny how everyone forgets about yesterday, only to repeat the same mistake tomorrow.....

So far... I have seven e-mails from various lenders / homebuilders announcing the glorious news of the extension / expansion of the $8,000 tax credit....

Just amazing....

Luckily... we have some real estate blogs this time around to tell the story of what really happened and how programs prolonged the pain.. Obviously not going to do us any good this time around... But.. at least when our kids hit the work force and wonder why they have nothing left after working all day... they'll know why.

"The Key to Happiness is Having a Bad Memory"

So True....

The US government is now going to be landlords. Fannie May is going to rent the house to the same people who could not afford it when they bought it. If the government keeps pulling this kind of stupidity house prices may take longer to drop.

But we still have the houses that are owned by banks, and individuals that will need to sell. Interest rates are going to have to go up. The buying frenzy that came with the last $8k buyers bribe is pretty much over. I do not expect many to buy because of the new bribe over the next few months. A big reason is called seasonality. IF the bribe is extended beyond that deadline it now has what happens? I think people will expect it to just be there. They will not see any sense of urgency to buy. That boat has already sailed.

Most of those who are left to buy and have not already either 1 can not afford to buy or 2 do not see a house as an investment. They see it as a (now overpriced) roof to keep you dry. The concept of buying a house to make money from it is pretty much dead now. Reasonable people see that real estate is likely to decrease in price.

I keep seeing realtors saying if a property does not appraise you need to make up the difference with cash. If a property does not appraise it needs to drop its price.

Did they tack on any other freebies to the tax credit extension like free foodstamps or government cheese for a year?

We might as well run the country into the ground at full speed.

They should at least make you put a sign in the front yard stating "I participated in the free money program".

@ Paul,

Great Peter Schiff video....sounds like we need to pack up and move into a cave since no one will rent or buy down the road.
Rents will, and have come down but I'm a firm believer that everyone needs a roof over their head and will rent (Since they can't afford a mortgage)...maybe at a cheaper rate down the road.

Looks like the $8,000 Tax Credit is about to be extended and expanded to current homeowners:

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/11/06/first_tim…

I'm already getting bombarded with all of the RE propaganda but....

I'm with Peter Schiff on this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpTaZOunPs

And.....Fannie Mae is getting into the landlord business..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wFamjmNUNI

U.S. jobless rate climbs to 10.2 percent

Corporations have made profits - so far- by cutting costs (firing workers) ...If they keep doing so they will find themselves without customers ...leading to more job cuts .... a vicious self-feeding economic contraction with no end in sight...

whatreallyhappened.com

Americans on food stamps tops 36 million, new record

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5A34EI200…

This does not include all the foreign countries Americans pay for or the US military occupying said countries.

"The best reason I see to buy in this market is to help someone get out from under their mortgage so you can have the same problem."

My, my, my how the tables have turned. Everyone should have realized that when the majority get on on side of the boat it will capsize and sink.

-a happy renter

Since this question was posed in april of 2008 I think we should look at house prices from the date this was asked. House prices dropped 19% in the past year. They dropped some more going back to april.

Had anyone bought a house when this question was asked they would have lost over 20% (maybe 25% or so?) of what they paid. If anyone buys now what reason is there to expect prices not to continue to drop?

http://www.housingnewslive.com/articles/reasons-housing-mark… <-- reasons to expect prices to drop.

http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/09/the_shadow_foreclosu…

Excessive Supply – The number of vacant homes is nearly 10% as compared to an average of just 2.2%.
We have 2.7 million foreclosures already in the pipeline.
7 million more foreclosures are likely to come starting in 2010 going to 2013.

When (not if) interest rates rise prices will drop. When the $8k buyers bribe dies house prices will drop a lot by the loss of interest. (pun intended) When someone buys a house they stop renting. That rental is then empty. How many people renting are going to be able to pay for that mortgage alone? A house bought today with the $8k bribe could easily turn into 2 foreclosures tomorrow. 1 the quickest is the rental that is unrented they left behind. The second is the house that was bought with no money down and even getting cash back when it was bought. When the buyer had no real loss they can easily wqalk away when times look a bit tough.

The best reason I see to buy in this market is to help someone get out from under their mortgage so you can ahve the same problem. The secondary reason would be you get a steal on a property. Based not on last years value, but the pre-bubble pricing.

'You will get NONE of that money back, unlike your landlord, who can sell the house and get cash."

This idea of the home being an atm will die slowly but it will die I assure you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Has nothing to do with using your home as an ATM.

'You will get NONE of that money back, unlike your landlord, who can sell the house and get cash."

This idea of the home being an atm will die slowly but it will die I assure you.

ADP says U.S. companies cut estimated 203,000 jobs
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=2183304

Today's buyer is next year's foreclosure. Better deals years out.

Because this asset is cheap by any standard and has been for decades. Of course I am not writing about real estate which has been overvalued for decades.

Silver. Ready to explode upward.

Silver set to Soar as it did in the 1970’s
http://news.silverseek.com/SilverSeek/1257267140.php

Rent. Keep the majority of your capital in silver.

Johnson and Johnson cutting 8000 jobs

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Johnson-amp-Johnson-sets-apf-3…

Must be that recovery causing the job cuts.

Depression II in progress.

Buy a home , go bankrupt, gets me a much better deal in a few years.

It is called a tax revolt. The taxpayers outnumbers the government by a massive margin and can at any time stop paying any and all taxes. Been done before several times.

You may continue throwing your money away to the government as I am sure they will not complain. What you are afraid of is that other people will not finance what you deem important. You desire other people to fund you ideas. You subscribe to collectivism and slavery.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So you rent, and leave the homeOWNERS to pay the taxes that support the infrastructure you use? Okey dokey. Of course, part of your rent goes to pay those taxes, and you get to pay off someone else's mortgage. You will get NONE of that money back, unlike your landlord, who can sell the house and get cash.

Chicago, Crook County... Same Thing...

"--There are about 1,200 taxing bodies throughout the county.."

I just find that hilarious.... until I remember that the same system has now moved to the Federal level in D.C.

@ Paul,

You forgot to mention Cook county!

@ Rosalie --- when a tenant becomes a homeowner the property they rented becomes vacant.

Case in point.... I just picked up two more listings where the tenants moved out to take advantage of the $8,000 first time homebuyers tax credit... (And I'm working on two more with a similar situation.)

The owner now can't rent the homes at a rate to cover the mortgage and expenses.... besides that... he is buried over $100K on each property so he is making a business decision to short sale the properties.

FOR EVERY ACTION... THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION....

I'm all for buying homes but Restoring our economy starts with financial responsibility from Main Street to Washington D.C.... an economy that is fueled by debt is unsustainable.

Just ask California, New Jersey, and the City of Chicago....

As a Californian who has received IOU's, I can tell you that they are hardly considered usable money.

They are just promisory notes for a future payment date. They CANNOT be exchanged for cash and are NOT negotiable instruments - it won't pay for my groceries, I cannot deposit them into a bank, I cannot buy a house with them.

Look, I wish IOU's were as good as money, then I would not be complaning and go about my merry way.

LOL......wow....Original and good idea coming from a Realtor....

It is time to take action, make a positive move toward home ownership, and help restore our economy.

I picked up on the IOU = Printing money pretty quickly too.

Yes, I thought that this was very close to breaking federal laws prohibiting non sanctioned banks from printing currency within the united states. They effectively produced a treasury bond. Normally it would be legal for a state or municipality to fund infrastructure products this way. Unfortunately you didn't have the ability to decide if you were going to purchase these "IOUs" and thus California "monetized" their debt.

Very shady.

Now they are trying to balance the budget by "floating" more of the debt onto taxpayers? Interesting.

It's Unconstitutional for a State to print their own money.

@ Carl -- No surprise... taxes in Illinois are always going up in one form or another. Good luck with the increase in the already high property taxes.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-cook-county-taxesoct21…

"--There are about 1,200 taxing bodies throughout the county.."

And everybody wonders why they are broke.... LOL!!

Dave,
I believe that Steve was referring to the I.O.U's that CA was giving out as a reference to printing money. I don't look at this as "Printing money" but I'm sure those that received these I.O.U's thought the State was.

I can't complain, Illinois wants to CLOSE to double the State Income tax rate.

Steve - "It was just a few months ago that CA had to print its own money to pay folks with. What makes you think that said advance will be paid back?"

=======================================

By the way, California is NOT allowed to print currency. Only the Federal Government can do that. This is not an opinion, but a fact.... please check your sources before posting inaccurate statements.

"It was just a few months ago that CA had to print its own money to pay folks with. What makes you think that said advance will be paid back?"

======================================

And what makes you think they wont?

I am presenting facts as reported, you prefer to present opinions.... sorry, but I won't argue with opinions, because I know I wont be able to change yours

Interesting Part 1 of a five month investigation into Goldman Sachs:

How Goldman Sachs Secretly Bet on the Housing Crash:

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/1008510.html

"In 2006 and 2007, Goldman Sachs Group peddled more than $40 billion in securities backed by at least 200,000 risky home mortgages, but never told the buyers it was secretly betting that a sharp drop in U.S. housing prices would send the value of those securities plummeting.

Goldman's sales and its clandestine wagers, completed at the brink of the housing market meltdown, enabled the nation's premier investment bank to pass most of its potential losses to others before a flood of mortgage defaults staggered the U.S. and global economies.

Only later did investors discover that what Goldman had promoted as triple-A rated investments were closer to junk."

Anybody want to buy some Mortgage Backed Securities?

"As you indicated, this is an “advance” the state is getting from its residents, which will be repaid at tax filling time in April. "

It was just a few months ago that CA had to print its own money to pay folks with. What makes you think that said advance will be paid back?

Steve - if you are going to post something about California from Oklahoma, then let's make sure we have full disclosure on what the actual tax increase is.

Your posting sounds like people will see an actual 10% increase in their total paycheck deductions, but that is NOT actually what is happening. For example, you make it sound if my paycheck is currently $5000 per month, I will see an additional $500 deducted - and that is absolutely not the case.

What will happen is that they will hold 10% more on your STATE income tax.

So for a single earner who makes $50,000/year, they will hold an additional $18/month or $216/year. For a married earner with a family making $100,000/year, they will hold an additional $27/month or $324/year.

As you indicated, this is an “advance” the state is getting from its residents, which will be repaid at tax filling time in April.

I am not providing any opinion whether this is good or bad - but just wanted to clarify about this additional tax withholding.

California Grabs 10% More From Taxpayers' Paychecks

L.A. Times: California to Withhold a Bigger Chunk of Paychecks:

Starting Sunday, cash-strapped California will dig deeper into the pocketbooks of wage earners -- holding back 10% more than it already does in state income taxes just as the biggest shopping season of the year kicks into gear.

Technically, it's not a tax increase, even though it may feel like one when your next paycheck arrives. As part of a bundle of budget patches adopted in the summer, the state is taking more money now in withholding, even though workers' annual tax bills won't change.

Think of it as a forced, interest-free loan: You'll be repaid any extra withholding in April. Those who would receive a refund anyway will receive a larger one, and those who owe taxes will owe less.

Wow.

Goldman takes on new role: taking away people's homes
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/77841.html

Goldman spent years buying hundreds of thousands of subprime mortgages, many of them from some of the more unsavory lenders in the business, and packaging them into high-yield bonds. Now that the bottom has fallen out of that market, Goldman finds itself in a different role: as the big banker that takes homes away from folks such as the Beckers.

Joining other Wall Street firms that bought millions of subprime mortgages, Goldman companies have gone to courts from California to Florida seeking approval to foreclose on the homes of middle- and lower-income Americans who couldn't keep up with their loans' soaring monthly payments.

"I don't have too much time to get into the debate about "welfare taxes" but unfortunately you have to pay for roads, schools, standing armies, research, technology, welfare, parks and a host of other programs which is why you just simply cannot stop paying property tax. "

It is called a tax revolt. The taxpayers outnumbers the government by a massive margin and can at any time stop paying any and all taxes. Been done before several times.

You may continue throwing your money away to the government as I am sure they will not complain. What you are afraid of is that other people will not finance what you deem important. You desire other people to fund you ideas. You subscribe to collectivism and slavery.

I don't have too much time to get into the debate about "welfare taxes" but unfortunately you have to pay for roads, schools, standing armies, research, technology, welfare, parks and a host of other programs which is why you just simply cannot stop paying property tax.

Get a load of this though, that is just on the state level since the Federal Government can only tax incomes.

What I wanted to point out is that the taxes are used for your benefit. If you feel that they are being misused then you can write your senators, congressmen, and local government to get them changed. You can organize a political party and make a difference in your own community.

I just don't get how some people can act like them paying taxes is a huge injustice when they are certainly recieving the benefits of their tax dollars at work.

"You're delusional. Maybe I'll just hoard my guns and ammo and go rent a cave"

I admit that taxes here are nowhere near the extreme high level that New Yorkers are forced to pay for their shacks. Again, go ahead and tell the state that your home is all paid for and that you own it and no longer will be paying the state welfare property tax. Let us know what happens. I f you own your own home then there can be no third party claims upon it. Remember that New York cops love guns and look for excuses to use them.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=new+york+police+…

Such brutality against citizens do not help property prices.