Your primary house is NOT AN INVESTMENT, it's SHELTER. You are supposed to have RETIREMENT SAVINGS outside of your home.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A lean-to is a "shelter". Even people who have retirement savings utilize the equity they have in a home for retirement. My parents bought a house in Huntington for 48,000 in 1968. Is it permissible that they sold it for almost a million PRE bubble, around 1999? And used the proceeds in their retirement. My grandparents, who were around during the depression had nothing BUT their homes as retirement income. Get a grip, life is not fair, if you can't afford a home either get a different job or look for a home you can afford, Mr. Bubble.

Sun May 11 2008, 10:32

Bubble Boy,

You are 100% correct and people, especially Realtors, just don't get it. And to make matters worse, it is hard to get people to change in this country. We like to see ourselves as the most intelligent people in the world but the reality is that we are far from it. Check out this link, I plan to post it in a few places, but to be honest, I've given up on trying to talk to these so-called "Real Estate Professionals". There are opportunities in this chaos to help people and make money, but it requires "free thinkers" and America is really short on that. Peace.

Khazeem Asadullah

Sun May 11 2008, 10:25

Since this is a Hampton Roads / Southeastern Virginia / Virginia Beach thread, I will state it. House prices in Hampton Roads / Southeastern Virginia / Virginia Beach are way too high. If you take the median household income and compare it against the median home price, it is very out of line. The result of this will be huge price decreases once lax lending standards are removed. The recent run-up in home prices was ABNORMAL, and can't go on. Look at professor Shiller's chart. I agree that the "bubble" didn't happen everywhere, but it did happen in over 60 prime metro areas and Hampton Roads is one of those. 100%+ appreciation in home values in Virginia Beach with an actual DECREASE in Wages since 2001 (Source Virginia Pilot, it is adjusted for inflation). America (our USA) is mostly a has-been, and going forward there will be more financial pain (for us) as other countries rise up and an equilibrium in living standards is reached (this means down for us, up for them). Why can't Realtors get it? Your primary house is NOT AN INVESTMENT, it's SHELTER. You are supposed to have RETIREMENT SAVINGS outside of your home. The housing bubble was just a way for the masters to hide the real problems and keep uneducated Americans feeling good. But now it's time for payback, and as a result we will loose trust, we will loose faith in the dollar, and things will be much worse versus just letting things play out before. Realtors -- you don't get it. You might have been able to rent your Benz based on home sales, but the bubble has really damaged America. It's not sustainable.

Sun May 11 2008, 07:39

Mike
I read your article on your website:

What does a “Market turn around” mean?
April 30th, 2008 . by Mike Kelly
I always wonder what the consumer and/or talking heads mean by the “Market turning around”? What? Back to the days of 20% yearly appreciation? Affordablity? Sane underwiriting guidelines? I heard a talking head stating the Fed was going to try and stop the “spiral downward of home prices”. Huh? The fed is NOT going to restore property values to a level where those now facing the ravages of “neg-am” loans, option arms payments and nothing down scenarios will stay put in their homes. These folks, the vast majority who should NOT have been allowed to buy homes to begin with, are looking at increased loan payments with falling values and thinking, “Why am I paying this monthly payment to live here!??” Your loan adjusts, you’re paying $4,000 per month to live in a modest production style home while you could “rent” a much nicer place with litle or no reponsibiliies. They move! They bail! It’s O.K. to bail now! It’s socially acceptable! I’m a victim of bad Realtors, lenders, Wall Street, everyone but my own actions.
That being said–is it a bad time to buy when the REO’s I have listed get 15-20 offers and overbid on the home driving the cost skyward? Should we allow 3% down with 580 FICO scores? Sub-prime scammers on the prowl again? Nope!! FHA!!
I got news for y’all–it’s the wild, wild, West out here in the Greatest State of California. The timid need not apply!

How many bank owned REO listings do you have? I think they raised the limit on the FHA so the timid people in cali can buy high priced homes.

Sat May 10 2008, 15:00

Do any of the realtors have more current data for this area? I think things have changed since oct 07. Thanks in advance.

Sat May 10 2008, 10:18

new reality for real estate agents (see link below)

Fri May 9 2008, 17:22

Once again our vaunted Trulia moderation team is asleep at the wheel. Can we put a timeline on these "rants"? We are becoming the Craigs List with these "rants" based solely on emotional reaction from folks who either got burned or are just bitter, cyncial folks. Here in Sonoma County, California we are seeing multiple offers on REO proerties so I can pretty much tell you WHERE the bottom is. New construction is right behind it. The other part of the market is a "Buyer's" market as inventory is over 6 months boardering on 10 months. Back in 1992 we had a statewide supply of homes of almost 26 months!! We ain't even close to that. So when you cynics and embittered, "missed the boat" consumers bring forth some sound economic data then I'll listen. But lay off the attack mentality or just go to Craigs List and check the freebies and leave a "Rant"!

Wed Apr 9 2008, 09:29

Way to go Maggie! I love your answer.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 09:22

Well...I've held off for weeks while this thread has been going on, but I feel I must put in my .02 now.

Real estate is a LOCAL commodity, not a NATIONAL commodity. No one can say what a home should sell for relative to its list price in Virginia Beach (where this thread started, and where I work) unless they know the conditions in the local market.
If a home comes on the market at a price that has already been analyzed and priced to reflect CURRENT market conditions, then the discounting has largely been done already. To say that it should sell for 20% or 40% less is just plain out of line unless the person making that claim knows the local market.
Virginia Beach listings are still selling on the average at 97% of their list price - or they aren't selling at all. The homes that are selling are the homes that represent PERFECTION - look like new, curb appeal plus, etc. and the sellers ARE paying most or all of the buyers' closing costs (3%).
The homes that are not selling tend to be pretty beat up, and they might be bought at a deep discount if there is sufficient equity in them. But as often as not, those homes do not have enough equity to allow for a deep discount, so they are ending up in foreclosure. Our foreclosure rate in Virginia Beach is about 1/3 of what it is nationally, indicating that our homes are still selling much better than elsewhere.
Supply and demand is what determines what a house sells for, not any arbitrary % below list price. I do encourage my clients to make offers below what we think the seller will accept, and we do fish for the bottom line, but getting the RIGHT home for a family's use and enjoyment usually overrides getting the best steal available in the market place.
OK, bring it on...all ye chicken littles. I've had my say and I'm done :-)

Maggi Davis
Keller Williams Realty

Wed Apr 9 2008, 09:10

And I would like to apologize to the forum for this little debate that is totally out of line here, and I would like to answer the question.....

I think a buyer should bid at least 30% - 40% in markets that are really overpriced and about 20% in other markets.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 08:53

Jed Lane,

You know Jed, you seem to have real issues with my business. What I do is help people and I do plenty for free, and if you knew me you would know that. I have a non-profit organization that I put my money into to help people. And even my real estate program is worth a lot more than I sell it for. But if I don't make money, I can't help those that are less fortunate. In fact, I'm in the process of starting a "Food Bank" as we speak. Don't judge me, because you don't know me.

And the "market" as it is, is what i called a scam, not the "BUSINESS" of buying or selling homes, information, etc. And I stand by that. But again, this is why these major lenders are under investigation and the whole market is under watch. These are not just my understandings, these thoughts are shared by millions of highly respected economist and officials all throughout America. That doesn't mean that we are right, but it adds validity to the argument. I am not against commerce. And if you would take some time out and study, as I do, then you would know the things that I know.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 08:44

I must also add that Bubble Boy is not really wrong in his views also. You are all right and you should find the common ground for a common solution. This whole housing market is a scam on the American people.... BUT.. as J.R. put it, the younger people don't have their priorities right. So some responsibility must be taken on behalf of the people that get into these situations, but the fact that this market, the way its run, and the way it is made to appear is a fraud prima facie.

But no body twist our hands and make us participate......

Wed Apr 9 2008, 08:08

Bubble boy..it sounds as if you believe some sort of conspiracy is going on. Rather than sit around and be mad about it, why don't you do something to change the direction of this country. Also, if you don't like what is happening, if you don't like the way things are turning out and think America is so terrible then why don't you just leave. Nobody wants to listen to someone with a bad additude complain all the time. I'm sure you've heard the saying...be part of the solution not the problem.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 07:53

J.R.

That's a real answer. I like that.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 07:50

The old people ruined it for us.
~~~~~~~~~~
Just saw this. Bubble Boy, I have news for you: it isn't the OLD people I see upside down in their houses and it isn't the OLD people I see who bought a brand new house 4 years ago for 250,000, pulled out another 250,000 from a home equity loan, have a handful of small children, stay at home mom, 2 brand new SUVs, all new furniture that looks like it was just delivered from Pottery Barn, an in ground pool and all top of the line appliances and now tell me the "have to get 550,000" for a 400,000 house because they want to make "a LITTLE profit". NEWSFLASH! You MADE the profit, sorry but you spent it already. This OLD PERSON was 50 before I bought an all new living room set, uses grandma and grandpa's antique (old) bedroom set still, and has never bought a new home OR a new car. This is not to say we are poverty level, in fact we have a 6 figure income, but we also have our priorities straight. I see twenty somethings paying over 1,000 a month on a LEASED car. It used to be you bought a house and lived with the kitchen. "Redecorating" meant painting the walls a different color and cleaning the rug the previous homeowner left. If there is anything us OLD people are responsible for, it is enabling these spoiled brats.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 07:49

you will quickly realize that the incomes in this area won't support all of the high end housing that is sitting empty.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Heck my income won't support the purchase of a high end car, so I don't buy one. Stop whining about what you can't afford and either change your financial situation or change the area you're looking in.

Wed Apr 9 2008, 07:41

So the Realtor(TM) says he goes by what the buyer wants the monthly payment to be... THAT IS WRONG. How about the true intrinsic value of the property? It's a LOOSERS market for any first time buyer. You look at the income from the census data here in Homicide Roads, and you will quickly realize that the incomes in this area won't support all of the high end housing that is sitting empty. Sure the low end stuff is moving, at the maximum price point the people can actually qualify for loans... but eventually they will run out of fools, and banks will run out of financing, and there won't be anyone. YOUNG PEOPLE, REVOLT! Don't feed these greedy old people YEARS of your hard work for a cheaply constructed (most likely by exploited illegal labor) house stuffed with cheesy gimmick stainless steel appliances (that were most likely made by exploited foreign labor, with the profits going to the greedy old people). Real estate prices are going to fall... perhaps 50%+ in Hampton Roads. America is falling apart because we are a nation of debt. The old people ruined it for us.

Tue Apr 8 2008, 22:29