Roger, As long as there is reciprocity to balance the playing field, I'm on board. We can go right down to disclosure of favorite bands and nicknames as long as the same burden is placed on the buyer as the seller. Glad we got this one solved ;)

Unrelated topic. I am using a different computer today, and having a devil of a time getting the anti-spam password accepted when posting comments or questions. I type in my comment, type in the password, and than get kicked back to the same screen with an error message saying I need to enter the password. Cycle repeats endlessly with multiple attempts with different passwords prompts. The only reason this answer was accepted is because there was no prompt for a password this time. Any suggestions? Possibly something to do with my browser? I probably won't be able to post a follow up, if you need additional detail, so can somebody throw me a lifeline here?

Thu Aug 23 2007, 13:33

Trulia Roger wrote:Excellent question. Y'all aren't going to like this, but...

My personal (not Trulia's, just little old me) take on it is that I want to know everything. If your house has been sitting on the market for 6 months, then there's most likely something wrong with it--priced too high, stubborn seller, unrealistic agent, stinky basement, what have you--and hiding that information from your buyers is disingenuous, just like taking a listing down and relisting it after a while to reset your DOM. I feel the DOM stats should be part of the mandatory disclosures. It's all about truth in advertising.
~~~~~~~
But most of the items you listed are irrelevant to what an offer should be. I know if a house if overpriced without knowing it's been on the market 4 years. Likewise, once I walk in I know if it's the stinky basement. Like prior sale price, the DOM is a number, that's all. It may or may not have relevance. I always say, if the prior sale price was $0 because the house was inherited two weeks ago, does that mean you should be able to buy it for peanuts because I didn't pay anything for it? DOM to me is all part of that secret book that buyers and sellers read, that we don't know about.

Thu Aug 23 2007, 13:33

I'm 100% happy to disclose any information of that sort, including whether I've been in failed escrows (with reasons), if I have funds available, etc. Transparency is the way to go when it comes to 6- or 7-figure investments, as far as I'm concerned.

Thu Aug 23 2007, 11:56

Roger, I completely understand this way of thinking from a buyer. Turnabout is fair play, however. To balance the playing field, would you then object to a disclosure being attached to your offer demonstrating whether or not you have been in escrow on another property within the past 2 years that failed to close? Of course most buyers would because they do not send it being germaine to the negotiation at hand. Perhaps they feel that such a failed escrow is their own personal business? That it was caused by a variety of factors? Bet the seller would be interested in this information, however. Full disclosure and all.

Thu Aug 23 2007, 11:52

DOM - should be a very valuable tool for all parties to the transaction(seller, buyer, listing agent/broker, buyers agent/broker), however if you are part of MLS that allows you to manipulate the "clock" then the tool is useless. DOM is a guage of the market conditions relavent to the buyer segments reaction to the listing agents ability to price correctly. Price it right, and it will sell sooner the ave. DOM. The other part of the formula is the List to Sale price ratio. Price it right, and you will get what the seller is looking for.
Are sellers concerned about days on market or are listing agents?
The funny thing about buyers and how long they spend searching, I can pretty much tell the ones who have been out there looking for a while( or I just ask) ,because they are the first ones to tell me I am off on my pricing or they bring me an offer.

Thu Aug 23 2007, 10:24

Oh of course, I want to know EVERYTHING :) DOM, price history, upgrade history both prior to the listing and during the listing period (some folks make changes to their home to help sell it). EVERYTHING! I'm an information hound. A home is much too big a purchase for me not to know about every little tidbit about the property.

We bought our first home in as-is condition, and there were quite a few issues with it, so it's not like I get turned off easily. I just feel an informed buyer is an asset to the transaction, because you're less likely to run into problems towards the end of escrow with the buyer backing out for whatever reason or putting unreasonable contingencies on the transaction.

I've only bought, rented and sold one property, though, so I'm obviously no expert. I just like to know :)

Wed Aug 22 2007, 16:25

Hello Trulia Roger:

I personally don't mind the DOM. I just feel that if you want to know a DOM about a house, then you need to consider the whole history of the DOM for that specific house in the specific MLS listing along with the other facts and statistics about the house so you can evaluate the house objectively instead of immediately forming a generalized "negative" impression about the house just because the DOM is high .

The truth is price is by supply and demand. If there is a very unique house that in all comps are reasonable, but is only suitable for a certain kind of clients, it might take a while to sell; or things can come in and out of escrow not due to the fault of the house, especially in today's market. or what not.

So, get your fact and statistics, but keep your mind open to review and consider the reasons why the DOM for a specific house is the way it is. That's when you can make a fair decision.

Wed Aug 22 2007, 16:14

Excellent question. Y'all aren't going to like this, but...

My personal (not Trulia's, just little old me) take on it is that I want to know everything. If your house has been sitting on the market for 6 months, then there's most likely something wrong with it--priced too high, stubborn seller, unrealistic agent, stinky basement, what have you--and hiding that information from your buyers is disingenuous, just like taking a listing down and relisting it after a while to reset your DOM. I feel the DOM stats should be part of the mandatory disclosures. It's all about truth in advertising.

Wed Aug 22 2007, 15:56

Tks....and for the record.....I think there were a lot of honorable mentions here!

Wed Aug 22 2007, 15:01

Very good input from everyone. I really struggled between Jim and Deborah for best post honors. I went with Deborah's because of the very simple principle espoused for keeping the days on market statistic: buyers will always want to know, so it's better not to guess. I won't say that I have been convinced that DOM is not a contrived stigma, but that's a better reason than most.

Wed Aug 22 2007, 14:56

Ruth, how about Tried and True for your blank? The book sounds like a best seller to me!

Wed Aug 22 2007, 13:58

You are right. I'm a graduate of the secret school. I laughed at Deborah's comment because it was true and also because while she was posting that here, I was posting "agents always say the same thing" on another thread. I also laughed at JR's comment: "Most times buyers (and sellers for that matter) seem to have "strategies" that make sense to them, but not to us. I've had sellers who get no offers tell me they want me to RAISE the price, because they think that it will bring people in who can "afford" their home." I started to compose a private email to JR because of that and a post of his elsewhere. As I was writing the email and giving some background, I was having trouble shortening the story. I finally gave up and started lengthening the story as a case study.

So, to those of you that have told me I should become an agent again and I laughed, how about if I write a manual disclosing "The Secret Strategies of Buyers and Sellers Verses the ____ Strategies of Real Estate Agents" ? What would be a good word for the blank line in the title? If you have a favorite story or case study that you would like included, please email it to me.

I've been wanting to have a focus group of recent buyers and sellers in Oak Park for months now but I couldn't come up with something that would motivate them to come. Everyone loves to tell their horror stories, right? I have to come up with some way of justifying the amount of time I am spending on this forum.
Ruth

Wed Aug 22 2007, 13:40

I'm a late comer to this thread and all the posts are relevant to the local & national markets. The only addition I have is a comment.

I remember the days when a good, solid property, priced right, and move-in ready went like hot biscuits on an open range. Gone in 60 seconds. Yes, this was Orange County in So. Cal. but there was a shortage of inventory and appreciation was going through the roof. You picked up equity on the day you closed.

The DOM phenomenon has always been a factor - good times or bad - but when the market is slumped and inventory is high - DOM can be a killer.

Sellers need to know their negotiating tool of "I'll price high today and see what I get .... I can always reduce later" mentality is (pardon the geographical pun) "Gone with the Wind". I think Deborah hit it on the head - there is a secret school: its called Myth U. : So many sellers haven't gotten with the program and the times we are a livin' in; and somehow still subscribe to old mythology of the past.

It is our job as professionals to give them the skinny and emphasize the buyer's mentality. A successful sale sometimes means the seller may have to give up a percentage or two on the selling price. DOM definitely hurts the bottom line when an offer is made. Properties are vulnerable to longer days on the market if day one we aren't realistic.

You got it right Paul - buyers are wary of properties that so many others have passed on - and it makes a great point to bring up to a potential seller. I hear so many agents who pass on listings for this very reason - unrealistic sellers.

Wed Aug 22 2007, 06:16

Sylvia,
You made me laugh with your dinner story! There are so many of you that add value to the posts.

Tue Aug 21 2007, 20:35

Again, I think this is the best thread. Great answers!

As I said in another thread:
I just heard a Mark Twain comment the other day, "There are 3 kinds of lies, 1) lies 2) BIG lies and 3) statistics. DOM are just a statistics.

Ruth

Tue Aug 21 2007, 20:11

Yes, Sylvia....you helped and your contributions are always worth reading vs. skimming. BTW, you dinner story was cute, too.

I do understand what you mean that you explain all relevant history to your client. On many MLSs the DOM are available online or the consumer print outs. Often, a consumer will start to develop preconceived notions simply based on seeing this data. Not all agents are as conscientious or as thorough as you.

We aren’t going to stop the consumers from asking, and here are our options (not ours due to MLS rules, but...)

1) Inaccurate DOM data resulting from manipulation of the listings
2) No data - Agents will shoot from the hip when showing properties, or need to research all
completely and thoroughly before appointments. This seems like a lot of extra work for the diligent and the risk of bad data going to customers from the less diligent.
3) Accurate data as a result of stricter policing and guidelines.

As far as the use, misuse, or misunderstanding of DOM data, posting it on a listing or not will not solve that. The consumer is going to ask. As responsible agents, we must better handle advising and educating. And, Sylvia, without a doubt, I trust you are very precise and thorough. Any client is very lucky to have you as their agent.

Tue Aug 21 2007, 20:00

O.K. the problem with Trulia is that if you don’t go online for a day, you come back, see some interesting topic, there are already 14 answers and then you ended up burning your dinner twice because you are reading all those answers.

Substitute ‘you’ with ‘I’, that’s just what happened. And I got a spinning headache trying to digest all these answers. Great answers though, I have to say!

O.K. that’s the background for today just in case you all care  .

Yes, the majority of the people who walk into my open house do ask ‘How long has this been on the Market’, so I guess most of the people know this DOM concept, unfortun ately.

This is how I look at DOMs and use them; precisely because all the loopholes and complications of the DOM and status changes.

Any property that I (meaning I and my clients) are interested in, whether used for comp reason for either buying or selling, for listing price, or for purchase price; I always look at the history of the property(es). I even look at the buy and sell history of a specific property, the tax record, ..etc.; that are available online (no, I don’t go to the county in general). I never skip a property because of high DOM number or whatever. I look at a property for what fits.

This means I get to see as far back of the the sold history of the property, the sales activities of the most current sale (whether it has changed agents, price reductions, in and out of contract, elapse time (days) of each phase, ..etc); and I educate my clients about those facts. I also call the agent and ask them specific info about each phase if there seems to be a reason to. So, whether one simple DOM is accurate or not does not make much difference to me.

And you are right, once the genie is out of the bottle, especially something like this, is not going to go back; so we have to use it to our best advantage.

A number is only a number. The only way it’s meaningful is when it’s been properly quantified and qualified. So, I think the problem really lies in the education of the meaning and usage of DOM of the agent, their consumers and the media (yes, who, while educating the consumers can often times bring misinformation)

Did I help?

Sylvia

Tue Aug 21 2007, 19:44

Paul,

Interesting perspective but I'm not inclined to react quickly to DOM - especially if I see it's a poorly marketed property. Our MLS allows us to distinguish DOMM (Days on Market with an MLS#) and DOMP (Days on the Market Property - a total of all MLS#'s). I do know my buyers ask (especially in this buyer's market we have) but they don't exactly budge if I say 150 days. That's not exactly a long time. However, if I say 23 days and they are seriously considering the property, they know they had better make a good offer and not try to lowball it. I suppose this could be an advantage to the seller if they have priced the property correctly to begin with.

I'm with Carrie's school of thought on this and as a buyer's agent I won't deter my clients from seeing a property with excessive DOM if I think there's a remote chance it might be the "right" property for them. I'll go over the price reductions and changes in incentives in the MLS to show the seller's intentions to adjust appropriately to the market...even if it took a little longer than many buyers would have liked.

Tue Aug 21 2007, 18:31