What about the documentation on the Purchase Agreement itself. You must date/time and sign when you presented the offer to the listing agent. The agent must signed that it is received, date and time and then when presented to the seller that must be signed, dated and timed. If those things were not done and the seller did not reject , counter or accept this agreement, then it is obvious the listing agent did not present it or didn't do her job. One way or the other, she is in violation and can be held accountable.

Thu May 1 2008, 12:10

Hi Deborah.
My advice to you, stop talking on the phone with this other agent and start communicating through email. Verbal doesn't mean that much, you can't quote him over the phone. Now if you have it in writing from an email, how uncooperative this broker is, you now have something to back you up if you filed a complaint against him.
You should blantely ask him/her if the SELLER has seen the offer which you and your buyer presented, and if so ask for a reason as to why it was denied. Buyers finances are not good, they are offended by you putting in a low offer, or if they are set on a certain price point they are trying to achieve and wont budge an inch otherwise?
My guess is that maybe this listing agent is trying to sell this on his own and is turning down your offer not to split the commission without showing it to the seller. Before you do something drastic like repor him, I would go to my manager and have them call the brokers manager to see what the situation is and why you are not getting any clear answers. That should resolve your problems, if not, than by all means go and report him.
Make sure that he gives you a real answer, ask him exactly what him and his seller would like to see to have your offer accepted and a contract signed.

Best of luck.

Wed Apr 30 2008, 13:25

Chris, (and everyone)

Your post is the heart of the matter of why I put this question on Voices. There is a dilemma. Burning bridges is not my style. Will this agent (broker) come around? If the seller gets anxious and starts putting pressure on the him, my buyer might become more valuable. The offer is decent.....and really, this offer might be very much in the sellers best interest to grant serious consideration. It is 8% under current list…..but there have been two price reductions. On the surface the original list does not look bad, but upon scrutiny and careful analysis, it was overpriced. Neighborhood carries higher values, but this is the smallest model……and it lacks the upgrades common to the rest of the development. So, this is a good oppty for the buyer to get into this neighborhood, and a solid offer worth serious consideration. The agent (broker) is doing a disservice to his seller by not working through negotiations. Regardless of his outbursts, I would set that aside in a moment, and move on to work in my buyer's best interest. If I file a complaint, that might harm rather than help my buyer.

If I don't file a complaint, I have turned my head and allowed grossly bad behavior to continue unchecked. In some ways it is easier for me to justify "not burning bridges" and just focus on finding another property for my buyer. I also have some concern that I might have a higher responsibility as a broker to step up to the plate when another broker is behaving badly. That crosses my mind as a secondary thought.

I can clearly write out facts with dates, times, phone calls, and quotes that I wrote during our conversations. I am not dependent upon memory. I wrote notes during the conversations. I am strongly positioned to write a complaint with these notes attached.

We don't have written in to our standard contracts any wording about presentation or rejection. I think it would be great if we did.

Thanks to everyone who responded. All of your answers have been helpful. Special thks to Sylvia for a well thought out response. Special thanks to Chris for coming back and sharing. Chris, I share your same thoughts, it seems.

Deborah

Wed Apr 30 2008, 06:44

Deborah,

I wish that I had better news about my similar situation. The big difference is that my person is not the Broker.

The board told me to talk to my broker, my broker told me to write a strong, well thought out letter to the other agents broker and see what happens. OH BOY!!!! I wrote the letter, but I don't even know if I want to send it. Contrary to popular belief, burning birdges is not my bag!

Wed Apr 30 2008, 04:14

He Deborah:

For Marin, CA; we are required to present 'ALL' offers to the sellers, unless the seller 'specific requests NOT' to receive more offers.

On CAR Purchase Contract, at the bottom of page 8 of the Purchase Agreement (last item), there is a spot for "Rejection of Offer" which says "No counter offer is being made. This offer was reviewed and rejected by Seller (Seller's Initials) on XX (Date).

This is to ensure that all offers are presented, viewed and responded by the sellers.

The Realtor will be violating his/her fiduciary duties to the seller if he/she does not at least present the offer to the seller - there is no telling whether the seller will change their mind, especially in this climate when an offer might be low one day, but quite possibly becomes the best offer two days later when the seller might have realized that having an offer is better than no offer at all.

And as a listing agent, I'd advise my seller to at least counter the offer back.

How do you handle this listing agent? Any rule from your own board that you can follow?

I think you are in a difficult position (I know i don't have to mention this), but unless you can talk the L.A. into presenting (or allowing you to present) the offer, you can't present it to the seller yourself and your buyer loses out on a potential purchase. Even if you complaint to your local board of Realtors' ethic committee, it might be too late to save the deal. Sorry!

What's the rules from your board? What do you think they'd say about presenting offer? Does the board consider it unethical? I also 'like' the fact that he says he'd sell it to his own client instead of yours (does it sound like double ending without consideration of 'dual agency''?

Yes, I'd document this, probably give him one more warning (translate - chance) before taking him to the board if you decide to put in the time and energy to do so.

Good luck!
Sylvia

Tue Apr 29 2008, 23:14

Time to go all in and play your cards. So you burn a few bridges. Who would want to work with this Clown anyway?

I am sure Mr.Jack Eass has heard " I am going to file a complaint against you." A thousand times.

So.... just do it.

Document everything, file a grievance report with your local board. Let the board notify him of the complaint. Have no more conversations with him other than writing.

Tell or show your client what you have done, and there`s no more you can do.

"Hey look, I found you another property"

Tue Apr 29 2008, 08:10

Deborah,

All I can add is WOW! I feel your flustration. I have had my fair share of jerks but this takes the cake. It seems worse since this is the broker. I would definatly take this to the board. It just makes me wonder how this person has been in business and how they operate out there with "normal" Realtors on a day to day basis. You have been out there over ten years, you have not delt with this guy personally but have you heard simular stories about this person? Is it possible they were having a bad moment? Doesn't really sound like it by the sheer selfish neglect he has shown toward you and your buyer. It just seems that even if it were not required, he would do the right thing as a civil duty. usually when I have a contract and someone in my office ask who's the other agent, when I say the name: the response is usually "Oh, you will love working with her, shes really good! or the other extream, "OH, watch out they always have the claws out". Seems like there may be more people with simular experiences dealing with this person. I wish you the best and send blessings to you!

Tue Apr 29 2008, 08:04

In my area, our contract has a space on the last page that is designated for seller rejection of the offer. It provides for the date and time the offer was presented and signature of the seller. You and your buyer are owed this. I would say that the listing agent is in violation of ethical and legal concerns. I would document as much as possible. A good place to start is with the owner/broker of the listing firm. If the lister is the broker owner, advise him/her that all documentation will be subitted to the local board/association grievance commitee. Keep your buyer informed, in the most diplomatic way, and follow your buyer's direction.

Tue Apr 29 2008, 06:42

We do all run up against useless grumpy old crows like this every now and again... and I imagine, he is among the reasons that the public also thinks that Realtors are useless grumpy old crows. He does not do our industry any good.

In reality, I would probably not do anything about it, other than to tell my managing broker (in this case yourself) just so that the occurrence was documented somewhere other than in my own brain... and I'd also let my buyer know that the listing agent was being a "booty-head"... and explain in limited fashion that he was being uncooperative... he should be providing this "proof of presentation", but that we should focus on the hunt, and just move on.

However, after reading my own first paragraph, I'd say that in YOUR case, particularly since you ARE the managing broker, you should report him to the local board, while allowing your own clients to focus and move one.

Tue Apr 29 2008, 06:17

WOW!

He may "think" that he owes you nothing, but I am not so sure. He owes every other REALTOR the responsibility to act ethically.

I have a similar issue right now and I am asking my board for direction. If I get good info from them, I will make sure to share it with you.

Tue Apr 29 2008, 06:06

I am the broker. So, I my questions are.... In your opinion……

Do you consider the listing agent's behavior to be an ethical violation, legal violation, or both?

Do you think this behavior should be reported? To the local association? At any other level?

Would you simply ignore the behavior and focus on other properties?

Should the seller be made aware of this? If so, how? Property is tenant occupied, and I do not know the sellers’ location, but believe they are no longer local.

What would you tell the buyer about the offer, the proof of presentation, or the broker’s behavior?

Have you ever encountered this type of response to a request (made politely) before?

The property has had 2 price reductions within 60 days, and the offer is 8% under the current list. Buyers are pre-qualified, have a good earnest deposit and nothing to sell. Buyer has 3 pre-quals, 2 are from major banks, 1 from an mortgage broker (shopping rates.) Buyers own a home in another city where they previously lived that has been rented for the last 18 months (since they moved away.) Buyers, themselves, are now renting. They are serious buyers, but cautious and concerned about a declining market. Had the property been at the original list, I believe the buyers would have made the same offer amount that was made.

Other listing agent comments included:

"The sellers already turned down an offer of that amount, so you are wasting my time."

"I have my own buyer who will pay that, and they turned it down, so if they are going to sell at that price, I would sell to my own clients and make the commission myself." (In a subsequent conversation, listing agent claims he never had an offer from his own buyers at this price. )

"I am busy now. I am going to show the property myself this afternoon."

"Your buyer wants something signed. He's not getting it. He's a waste of my time. I don't work for him."

I’ve been in this biz for a while. I have encountered a few bad apples along the routes traveled in more than a decade. This one, by far, has me a bit baffled. Perhaps I am more taken aback because the extreme behavior is coming from a broker. We have no prior history. I can’t believe that anyone could build a business with this type of attitude and behavior.

I posted this because I would like to know if other agents experience challenges to this extreme, how often, and how they respond.

Tue Apr 29 2008, 02:01

I would ask my broker for help first, then file a complaint with my local board of Realtors.
As for the buyer, I would explain that the sellers agent has not provided a response and that you will continue to follow up for a response, but for now consider the offer rejected.

Mon Apr 28 2008, 22:14

Deborah,
Wow! I would first talk with my broker and see how he/she believes that I should handle the situation. My next move would be to report the LA to the Association of Realtors, especially since this person is the broker. I know that our board wants all agents and brokers to handle each transaction in a professional manner. Realtors are such a small group of people that you hate to burn bridges, but this person sounds like one that has probably burnt a few. Be glad that you are not dealing with this person throughout a complete transaction!
Best of Luck and get your buyer on to the next home!

Charles Coachman

Mon Apr 28 2008, 21:43