Richard, thank you for your thoughtful input. I think that until brokers experience a really good, streamlined MLS with oversight, the question will remain unanswered. I was very fortunate to have lived in such an area for many years- NY is a bit of a shock.
Until that happens, despite a disagreement on occasion, we're both on to better things.
Jolie, I feel for you. I can't imagine working in the environment you describe, and hope that if the offenders are NAR members, you'll send your complaints to them, and to the Dept. of State.
While they might sit in a pile at the DOS, at some juncture someone will look at the pile!
You could also contact the attorney general if you feel that consumers are being hurt by the practices of specific companies regularly engaging in tactics that are detrimental or fraudulent.

I am not going to continue this
MLS is just a brand. a registered trademark
Your questions have been answered
I am certain I can find thousands of NAR members who complain abou their systems too
I could give the story about 'If everyone else jumps off a cliff, will do it too"
Just because a lot of people do something does not make it the best thing for you to do. Most people do not live in Manhattan, and don't understand why we do...and they never will.
I will not respond any further

Richard, a the question I'd ask is this: if you've set up the system to be much like the real MLS, why on earth not BE on the real MLS?? Realtor.com is the most visited website in the country, eclipsing all local sites by a huge margin, and buyers and sellers have called for an MLS (a real one).
Why the refusal to participate as the rest of the country (and most of NY) has?
I think that it's a fair question, in light of the constant criticism that REBNY receives, even from it's own members. Real estate agents want impartial oversight- what's the problem?

Richard,

Great answers with great follow ups.......

Keep up the excellent work here.

Again nothing more than a private entity and REBNY is not a for-profit enterprise. Its members are, just like NAR/Realtor/MLS. RETS is simply a computer data launguage interface program whcih ws started by the NAR. All it does is create a format and protocol for transferring information in a common computer laungage. IT does not provide oversight, that comes from your local boards and to some extent the NAR.

We have exactly the same thing in REBNY, I know I was a part of the task force that not only created the interface (Called the RLS) but also standardized the street names, apartment number formats and building addresses to eliminate confusion. Manhattan has a very different kind of Real Estate variation. We rarely have lots, garages, pools or any of the typical suburban situations, we have cooperatives and condos which need a set of information that is not a part of the format of typical MLS's...the need to transfer building information such as tax deductability, reserve funds, underlying mortgages, etc is extremely important and wqs designed by people who use it on a day to day basis. We don't have key boxes in Manhattan, most owners would be very concerned with leaving their homes open like that and want their agent to be present at all showings.
REBNY has oversight, REBNY has strict rules, REBNY has Teeth with fines for non-compliance.
THE RLS DOES require all REBNY agencies to have ALL exclusive apartments listed--$10,000 fine if they don't per listing. Of course somne has to inform REBNY and file a complaint (Just like any MLS would need)
The only Manhattan agency of any size that was a member of NAR just went bankrupt, they were also a member of REBNY. REBNY also has a public portal Residentialnyc.com, but with Streeteasy, Trulia and other sites there are so many ways to search now that consumers have a wide choice.
Lets get to what you really want, the ability to advertise other agencies exclusives on your site, that is the real difference. You have the ability to present any exclusive listing to your customers, to send them a Ebrochure (or printed version) with photos/floorplans and description and without the name of the exclusive agent on it to enable you to present it more efficiently (In fact REBNY recently made it aginast the rtules to have the exclusive agents contact info in the description part of the website so this can be accomplished more efficiently.
So we have establised that REBNY has oversight (with fines for non-compliance) that all exclusives are shared, that MLS/RET are basically one in the same as a part of NAR, Just like the RLS and the standardized computer language (just like RET) is a part of REBNY, that there is a logical and practical reason that models which work in Peoria don't neccesarily work in Manhattan.
What we have not established are what these greater ethics are, and what this transparency you speak of is.

Richard, MLS's have to be RETS compliant, and have oversight. I don't see a comment on my part suggesting that it's a government agency.
HUGE difference from that, to a private, for-profit enterprise that affords little in the way of recourse.
Sorry to disagree; REBNY has garnered much criticism by it's own members because the oversight is not in line with expectations of an MLS, which REBNY isn't offering- the MLS a trademarked entity.
With respect to splits, the reason that 50-50 in writing is unacceptable is because it eliminates competition that offer significantly less than that on either the buyer or seller side from a company, such as those that offer a flat fee on the selling side, with a co-op on the buying side that's higher. I'm glad to hear that REBNY was wise enough to forego such an understanding in writing; some private entities haven't, and it's a violation of anti trust laws. That's not opinion, just fact.
NYC real estate is a consumer nightmare (just ask consumers) and the refusal of large companies to engage in an MLS system that provides consumers with ALL available properties, and a code of ethics that's part of a bigger ethical picture would do much to eliminate the problems created by brokers (THAT is opinion).
Nothing will change in NYC for buyers and sellers until real estate companies decide that full transparency is appropriate; this hasn't been an issue in the majority of areas in the US. Shouldn't be in NYC, either.
Except, there never seems to be a logical reason that NYC is to averse to a system engaged elsewhere, with much consumer benefit. Still waiting for that answer, after seven years in NY.

Laurie: MLS is a private concern, not a government entity; MLS's are run by their member agencies. No different than REBNY.
"There is no single authoritative "MLS", and no universal data format....The many local and private databases--some of which are controlled by single associations of realtors or groupings of associations (which represent all brokers within a given community or geographical area) or by real estate brokers" Wikipedia
And as far as being some transparent open system, this may now be more true to some extent as the NAR lost a federal lawsuit on November 11, 2008 (US vs National Association Of Realtors Civil Action No. 05 C 5140)
REBNY does provide oversight, you seem to think one private entity is automatically better, there is a $10,000 REBNY fine for failing to disseminate information through the RLS within 24 hours excepting weekends and postal holidays. We have arbitration, and clear rules. There is a 21 page universal co-brokerage agreement as well as additional resolutions and an extensive code of ethics.
And since you bought it up, there is no requirement that commissions be split 50/50...only that absent any agreement setting forth a different commission split that they will be shared equally. This protects an agent from showing a property and later being told they are getting only 30% Etc. Of course if they give notice of that in advance it is allowed. Often the selling agent is compensated at a lower level than the co broking agent; IE the buyer’s agent is getting more. All this protects the agent who is representing the buyer.
Your musings are incorrect and unsubstantiated; REBNY has oversight equal to the MLS/Realtors which are also run by their members. Perhaps you should have the facts next time.

NYC needs a real MLS with oversight, period. REBNY is not an MLS, and as a result, is subject to the whims of its members. I hope that they don't have a "50-50" split in writing anywhere, as that's against the law (the Federal Trade commission would have recourse, as that's an anti trust scenario).
The bigger companies don't appear to want oversight- wonder why?
Doing things "their way" has certainly not engendered a public that is respectful of real estate agents- at some point, things need to change and become current. Consumers aren't going to put up with the non transparent nature of NYC forever- better to lead the change, than be forced into it by the very buyers/sellers that write your paychecks. It's not a good real estate environment for anyone- amazing that it's still operating in the dark ages.

Jolie and Alen, I agree with you that it is a great idea to preview properties. With most buyers now pre-shopping on the internet, they will get an idea from photos and virtual tours that are very different from what the property is really like. Once you have started to take them around, you will get an idea of what their priorities are, and when you preview listings, you can whittle down the choices that you show them. Everyone wants to make a deal, and things are getting harder all the time. If an agent goes on their own to preview, the seller may not need to be out of the apartment, because they are not watching a potential buyer in terms of how long they stay, what their facial expressions are, or even what they say out loud, that can add to their stress level of wanting to get their property sold right away.
Because I have worked in the mortgage business for so long, I have a different perspective about what buyers have to say. Also working in partnership with realtors, i know what they go through when trying to line up properties to show to different buyers. Every listing agent should be happy to know that an agent is not going to be having them show a property to a buyer who would never be interested in it.

Rich,
Who's on First?...LOL! Alen and I are not saying that I don't come to showings with my clients, (if that's what you are saying?) I'm saying that my buyers want me to preview apartments for them because so many listing descriptions, photos and floor plans are deceptive and my buyers get very upset when we go together to see an apartment that looks attractive, large and homey online but in reality is ugly, tiny and uncomfortable...

I second Alen on the point that you must come to a showing with your customer, if it is not worth your time, then it is not worth mine. Otherwise brokers would let me run around like a nut with their customers who may not be qualified or motivated but since they don't invest the time to come with them ...hey why not?

As Woody Allen is credited with saying:
99% of success is showing up

(The number varies but you get the point)

Jolie,

I think that "participants" refers to REBNY members, and for that reason we have a seperate co-broke agreement for non REBNY members. As I stated previously, any broker who refuses to sign a basic agreement which states a 50/50 split if a deal happens, he or she isn't someone you wan't to be negotiating with in the first place. They will kill their own deal.
About brokers giving you a hard time to show their exclusive, I don't think it has anything to do with REBNY, it has to do with that particular broker. Even in a down market, some brokers try to do Direct deals, they return your phone call days later, or ignore it all together. It's called GREED and unfortunately the seller may never know that his broker is denying access to a potential buyer.
Regarding the status update of a listing, that can be an honest mistake and a broker forgot to update the status even though they have to. When it comes to an accepted offer, I did mention that it should be updated, but not everyone does it, because an accepted offer doesn't mean much, and that broker can still show the property unless the seller has decided against it. If there is a signed contract and they haven't updated that status, then they are being shady. Contract on the other hand has to be updated, because the property is no longer available. I'm not sure which system you use to browse listings, so it may or may not show updates and all remarks.

I know you mentioned that a broker won't show you the property unless you are there with your client. That's usually the case. I don't think it's anything personal, but very few brokers will go out of their way to show an apartment to another broker when they are there alone. If a seller is at home, you have to go through the trouble of getting them out. Not always as easy as it sounds. This is also one of the main reasons why we host open houses, so that brokers can come by on a Sunday to preview for a client. In a vacant apartment, the broker just notifies the doorman.
If on the other hand that broker won't show if you are coming with a client, call that brokers office and try to get hold of his or her manager explaining the situation. Trust me, managers know exactly which one of their own gives other brokers hard time about showing properties.
I'm sure that REBNY will you give answers if you put in a call, I'm just not sure how much they could do if you aren't a member.
If you are able to convince your buyer to sign a buyers agreement, that's great and that does give you more of a safety net. We don't use it here. When I say we, I am talking about my colleagues. If you have a good rapport with your buyer, and you exlain to them that you have access to same properties as another broker (assuming you do) they have no reason of working with anyone else. That usually does the trick. Because if they don't get along with the broker they have, aren't happy with the services provided, they will leave them with an agreement in place or without.
I think people are able to be loyal if you have that talk with them. This I learned from being in Retail for 8 years. I'm sure you heard of the saying that "Buyers are liars". And if they lie and use us, then it's probably for the best that we fire them as clients. Window shoppers can be put on the back burner.

Alen,
Thank you for your answer. From REBNY's posted co broke rules it is my understanding that the co-broking agreement includes "participants" who they define as a licensed real estate broker who has an office and/or listings in New York City (I've posted an excerpt previously and to the REBNY rules link below) perhaps I am mistaken and need to have a co broke agreement with presented offers..I will have to ask REBNY , I guess.
What I've been experiencing is listing agents, who don't want to show me properties, unless I'm with my buyers.. Also many listings that when I call up to schedule a showing the broker/agent tells me that it's in contract or has an accepted offer but there is nothing on their websites or listings about it even 2 weeks later! That's what I meant about switch and bait, advertising properties that are not available! There are at least two listings on the UWS like that right now.. I also had an agent light into me afterwards because the buyers asked me to accompany them on a showing of the agents listings that the husband had scheduled at the same time the wife had contacted me (I had arranged to show her another apartment in the same building on the same day) She also accused me of soliciting her customers because I ran into an old acquaintance at the showing! Because of this I now insist on an exclusive buyer's agreement.

Jolie,

Richard is correct on REBNY members disclosing status of a listing. REBNY members have to enter an exclusive agreement into co-brokerage system (ROLEX) for us which then distributes it to other search engines within the first 24 hours of having that listing agreement signed. It has to state if its Active Exclusive, Active Open, etc...Anytime a status changes, from being off the market, to contract signed or sold, it also has to be updated.
From what I understand, without getting into all of the legalities a REBNY member has to Co-broke with another REBNY member on a deal. That may not be effective if a seller specifically denies the other broker, which would probably have to be done in writing.
As for REBNY members co-broking with non REBNY agents, I don't believe they have to. The mutual understanding between REBNY members may not all be the same for NAR members.
That being said, I don't see why someone from REBNY wouldn't want to get a deal done. This is easily resolved by a simple co-broking agreement that every company should have in office. I've done deals with non REBNY members before, it's a simple 5 minutes agreement that just needs to be signed by both parties and agreed upon.

Bait and switch is done mainly on Rentals, rarely on sales. You can tell if someone is an Open Listing or if it's someones Exclusive without giving that broker a call. If there is no address listed on a property, more times then not that is an Open Listing. And we cant co-broke those.

Hope that helps.

Rich,
I'm appreciate you joining this discussion but I'm not sure I understand your answer completely?
My understanding is that the REBNY co broke agreement applies to "participants" and the REBNY definition is"“Participant” shall mean a licensed real estate broker, associate real estate broker, real estate salesperson (as those terms are defined in New York Real Property Law § 440) associated with any firm who (a) is a member of the RBD, or (b) has an office and/or listings in New York City, or is a firm that actively endeavors during the operation of its real estate brokerage business to list residential property of the type listed on the RLS and/or to accept offers of cooperation and compensation made by Exclusive Brokers in the RLS. “Actively” means on a continual and on-going basis during the operation of the participant’s real estate brokerage business. As stated in REBNY’s Code of Ethics and Professional Practices (the “Code of Ethics”), the membership requirement shall be applied on a nondiscriminatory manner to all Participants or potential Participants.
“Co-Broker” shall mean any Participant representing a Customer and/or Buyer, as applicable, with whom it has authorized an agency relationship relating to the provision of real estate brokerage services.

A property that is not in contract is allowed to be marketed openly, it is not a deal until itis a signed contract. Once it is signed, it is required to be marked as such within 24 hours. Once it is closed it is required to be marked as such or taken down withn 24 hours. Certainly it can take some time for this info to feed to other websites. And some websites which use 'spiders' to crawl sites to gain information and are not fed by the agencies are out of their control.
Advertsing a property that does not exist is against the law.
Also remeber if you are not a part of the RLS and are looking on websites that not all listngs on those sites are exclusives (not mine) and they do not have to work with you on those at all. If you are a REBNY member they are requred to tell you they are Open lisitngs (or Ours Alone)..they don't have to tell you anythng else. If you are not a member of REBNY I don't know what they have to do as you would be lacking a co-brokerage agreement wiht them unless you had signed one directly with them).
Also remember less than 2.3% of the listings in NYC are held by NAR members...see Real Deal this month.