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Vishwa's Blog

By Vishwa | Home Buyer in

Choosing Replacement Windows

Dang, this started off as a simple blog post and it’s ballooned into a novel… oh well, if you want to learn a bit about replacing windows, you’ll hopefully benefit from reading this….

Background


We have an older home built in 1936, with single pane windows (some originals, some replacements).  Not only does our house lose heat in the winter and gain too much heat in the summer from the single pane windows, many of them are inoperable (painted shut) and there is some water leakage.  Replacing windows is not really a good economic decision (payback will probably take 15+ years), but there's a lot to be said for increasing the comfort of a home with better windows.  Also, it should enhance the appeal of home when it’s on the market to be sold.  Oh, and if you’re thinking of replacing your windows, I’d recommend only if you plan on staying there awhile – it’s expensive and a buyer may not appreciate your choice of windows.

I've spent the last 6 months or so researching various window brands/materials and I've found the process to be quite frustrating (and pricey).  I wanted to share my thoughts and findings (disclaimer:  I don't claim to be an expert in windows - these are just my opinions).  In addition to the practical considerations, I wanted the windows to modernize the look of our house as much as possible with good quality, without breaking the bank.  However, I also didn’t want “false economy” (aka “penny-wise and pound-foolish”) by going the absolute cheapest route – I’m a big believer in value, which does not always equate to the lowest price.

Style
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If you want a very specific style of window, you may be out of luck unless you're willing to pay for true custom work.  For example, if you want super modern windows with straight edges and minimal lines, none of the large manufacturers (e.g., Marvin, Anderson, Milgard) make them, since most of the homes in America are traditionally styled and it’s not a good business decision  for them to pursue the small percentage of the market who want modern windows.  To get modern styled windows, you'll have to go custom or to a specialty supplier (= $$$).  Sure, you can get different dividing lites, different colors/finishes, different shapes, but you have very little flexibility when it comes to the style of the overall window itself.  Also, if you’re buying a clad window (see wood windows below), then your choice of exterior colors is limited.


Material

Vinyl:  I believe that most replacement windows sold are vinyl.  Vinyl is the least expensive option, but: 1) You may not like the look, 2) They're white only, 3) Vinyl is not exactly environmentally friendly, 4) They can't be painted.  That being said, they're inexpensive and putting in more expensive windows is not warranted in many cases (let’s face it, most homes in the country are not architectural prizes and certainly in the case of a lower priced home, vinyl is fine). 
Advantages: Price, smaller sashes allow for greater window/sash ratio, no rotting, no maintenance, good insulating characteristics.     
Disadvantages:  Look may not be for everyone (like me),  not environmentally friendly, non-paintable

Aluminum:  Most aluminum windows are of low quality/aesthetics, a leftover from decades ago when aluminum = cheap.  But  modern loft/Dwell-type of aluminum windows can be of very high quality and look great.  However, you'll pay a lot for these high end windows from firms like Fleetwood or Blomberg (WTH – no website???!)- in some cases 2x the price of the highest-end wood windows from the major manufacturers.   You can get less expensive windows from other local/regional firms or from Milgard, but I wasn’t happy with the look, mechanisms, screens.

However, in addition to the price disadvantage, aluminum windows tend to form condensation on the inside of the glass because aluminum conducts heat/cold - if it's cold outside and warm inside (think of a glass of icewater sitting in a warm room and how it “sweats”), condensation will probably form on the window.  This condensation will drip to the bottom of the window and settle into the framing of the window cutout in your house - so if that's wood, that's a problem, unless one takes measures to specifically prevent that. 

Advantages:  Low maintenance, clean minimal lines, good for modern homes, environmentally more friendly (recyclable), low price (lesser quality ones)
Disadvantages:  Highest quality ones are expensive, thermal transfer, not appropriate for non-modern styled homes

Wood:   Wood windows can look great, but require more maintenance than other options, as the wood must be painted/stained to prevent rotting.  In most cases, the large manufacturers' flagship lines are wood.  But if you want a super modern look, wood may not be for you, as wood windows tend have a more traditional aesthetic.

To reduce/eliminate maintenance of the exterior-facing wood, many companies have used vinyl or aluminum to clad the wood, while leaving the interior-facing wood alone.  This can work quite well, assuming the cladding is of high quality (aluminum cladding is considered preferable to vinyl, but the coating must be able to withstand the elements for many years).  You may or may not like the choices of cladding colors (Marvin’s shown here).

If the wood is properly maintained and is of high grade to begin with, it should last quite awhile.  It must be treated properly with certain chemicals to prevent rotting, though, so it's not quite as environmentally sound as it seems at first glance.  Marvin ran into some major problems years ago as a result of using an ineffective wood preservative from PPG, resulting in rotting of their wood windows.  A class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of consumers against Marvin and Marvin sued PPG, eventually winning $150 million from them.  Marvin wood windows evidently no longer have these problems, as they are not using that preservative any more.

Advantages:  Traditional look fits with many homes, aesthetics, tend to be of higher quality than other choices because manufacturers consider wood their flagship product and put the most design effort and best hardware into them, decent insulation characteristics, kinda-environmentally friendly (the wood is still treated with chemicals and of course, trees are cut down to make them)
Disadvantages:  Price, requires proper maintenance to prevent deterioration/damage (choose a cladded product to reduce maintenance), traditional look doesn't always fit with modern “Dwell-type” homes

Fiberglass:  Fiberglass windows are one of the more recent developments in an attempt to get the best of all worlds.  Fiberglass is strong, is low maintenance, has great insulative qualities and can be painted.  However, I didn’t see a lot of choices in fiberglass and I was disappointed with the hardware choices (more “downscale” and fewer options when compared to what’s offered for wood windows).   The exterior color choices are very limited, although you can paint it (but then you have to deal with the maintenance issue).

On the interior, one can get fiberglass windows clad in wood, to satisfy those wanting real wood inside.

Advantages:  No rotting, strong, paintable, less expensive than wood

Disadvantages:  Typically not the top line for manufacturers, limited colors and hardware, may not be suitable aesthetically for some homes

Warranty/Guarantee

Although you may not get the ultimate flexibility by selecting one of the large manufacturers, you do get some comfort from the fact that they have done a lot of R&D and will stand behind their product and authorized installers (in most cases, mind you – I know there are times when consumers have problems that aren’t covered by the manufacturers).  If you purchase from a smaller company or custom maker, there may be a somewhat higher risk in that you can’t know they’ll be around later.  Of course, there exceptions to this, but since a window has operable mechanisms and poor windows can cause other problems, this is important to me.  Some large manufacturers have 10 –year warranties.


Insert vs. Full Rebuild

When replacing your windows, you have to consider whether you’ll do a full rebuild or whether you’ll use an insert window.  The former involves removing the window trim and rebuilding the framing (the opening in your wall) and may require re-doing stucco or exterior siding repair.  The latter leaves all of that intact and the new window is inserted into the opening.

If your framing is heavily damaged by rot or other damage, you may have no choice but to do a full rebuild.  If your framing is sound, you have a choice. As you can imagine, a full rebuild is more expensive and involved than an insert. 

An insert is less involved and less cost, but there are aesthetic compromises.  For example, the two options that Marvin offers are a Tilt-Pac or an Insert window.  Both are easier to install than a full rebuild (and therefore cheaper), but they may not satisfy those who are super-picky about the visuals. 

The Tilt-Pac fits into the existing  window opening and has a good window/sash ratio (i.e., more glass area), but you’ll have to live with big vinyl channels on the interior and some vinyl trim on the exterior (and there are only two vinyl colors – white or tan).  To clarify, the exterior is mostly clad in aluminum, but there are two strips of vinyl as well that sit next to the aluminum.  On the inside, large vinyl channels are necessary to guide the double-hung window.  Plus, the window mechanisms don’t feel as robust as on the Insert and the insect screens aren't as well-integrated.

Their Insert is sort of a window-within-a-windowframe.  Imagine a picture frame and then put a window within that frame – then the whole thing goes into the window cutout of the house.  You almost have a double frame effect, reducing the effective glass area – this may not be desirable in windows where you are concerned about the view or where you are bothered by the fact that the Insert unit contains a sill, so if your home already has trim at the bottom of the existing window, the Insert sill will cover this. However, the insert is a nice integrated unit and from the exterior, you’ll just see the aluminum cladding and no vinyl strips, unlike the Tilt-Pac. In addition, on the interior, you also see less vinyl and more wood.  The Marvin Insert lock, window operation and componentry is more robust than their Tilt-Pac.

The Decision

So, you’re probably tired of reading all of this by now and want to know what I ended up deciding upon (sorry – the windows aren’t installed yet, as I only recently made my decision, so I can’t tell you how it turned out).

Companies considered:

Fleetwood

Blomberg

Marvin

Milgard

Anderson

Eagle Windows

Materials considered:

Aluminum

Wood

Fiberglass

Final choice:

Marvin Ultimate Insert (both casements and double-hungs)

  • <!--[if !supportLists]-->Aluminum clad exterior (haven’t made the final decision about color yet – dark or light?)
  • <!--[if !supportLists]-->Primed wood interior (going to paint it white anyway, so no reason to buy expensive wood)
  • <!--[if !supportLists]-->Satin chrome hardware (to match my modernized interior)
  • <!--[if !supportLists]-->Hi-transparency insect screens (to preserve the view)
  • <!--[if !supportLists]-->No grilles (divided lites) to maximize light and to make them appear as modern as possible

I chose Marvin because they generally seem to have a good reputation (Consumer Reports, etc.) and I liked their product choices (which work well for our applications). 

I really wanted to do aluminum (no rotting ever and virtually no maintenance), but for the reasons stated above, it turned out to be infeasible (high cost of the good stuff not appropriate, rebuild required, etc.).  Marvin doesn’t offer fiberglass Insert windows (requires full rebuild) and I didn’t find the fiberglass offering from Milgard to my liking.  So, I ended up with aluminum clad wood.  Also, the fiberglass options don’t offer hardware upgrades (e.g., Satin Chrome).

This choice was definitely not cheap, but hopefully it will be worth it at the end of the day (value, remember?). 

Comments

By Replacement Windows Va,  Tue Feb 9 2010, 10:48
I just put Gorell windows in my Town home in Northern VA. They look amazing, A company called Distinctive Design & Remodeling sold me them and installed them. distinctivedesignremodeling.com
By Sliding Sash Andy,  Tue Jul 27 2010, 12:31
In the UK there's been a resurgence of timber framed sliding sash window (double hung). Many houses had them removed in the 60's 70'sand 80's after upto a hundred years of service, replaced by UPVC. So now after as little as 20 years the plastic windows are failing and falling apart. The custom hardware no longer available for ecconomic repairs.
Added to that is the value old style windows can add to a property, original features being in-vogue. Unfortunately I couldn't afford them so I'm designing and making my own. The plans will be available when I've got the second batch finished.
You seem to have placed a great empassis on the rotting of timber. The ones in our house lasted nearly 100 years before they where ripped out by a less than enlightend previous owner.
The first point of protection of a timber window is the design, to shed standing water and let any trapped water evaporate. Second is maintance with particular attention to the glazing seal (putty). Third, the quality of timber and construction of joints. Fourth is the coating (paint). I've been experimenting with the very old fashioned Linseed Oil paints, often the original coating then helped windows last. Modern treatments and paints, yes even microporous paints, trap moisture so the wood can't breath when more than the specified number of coats have been applied.

Hope this adds something useful to your reseach.
Cheers
By D Mann,  Sun Aug 22 2010, 22:30
Mike http://home-worx.com
I think you made a good choice, The aluminum clad wood window is much better in a residential setting
Aluminum is bullet proof but to much conduction for residential use
By Rousella,  Tue Aug 31 2010, 19:22
Hello! I need some info about roofing estimates for my roofing replacement? Can you recommend something?
I actually watched this video before at http://www.viddler.com/explore/pflugervillehow/videos/1/.
It gave me some valuable ideas too but still I want to get more details before planning. Thanks a lot.
By Nancy,  Thu Sep 2 2010, 13:49
Choosing replacement windows can be confusing. I can tell you have done a lot of research. This is a really informative website too. They have a learning center that tells you everything you want to know about replacement windows, doors, roofing and even how to choose a contractor. http://www.energyswingwindows.com
By Micheal Verns,  Sun Sep 5 2010, 18:59
This post is very detailed, maybe you can also give me an idea pn roof replacement. I know that when it comes to repairs th first thing to do is to have a detailed research about it.
I found some answers here http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeham8_houston-roof-replacement-roof-repla_people
By Scott Miller REALTOR®,  Mon Sep 6 2010, 03:31
Hi Vishwa. Just read your entire blog and I think it's excellent!! I was a GC in NJ/PA for many years and my teams installed thousands of windows, almost all vinyl. I think if I were back in that business, I might do things differently now. I would think more about where these windows would wind up if they needed to be trashed, too. What's environmentally good/bad is something we all need to consider.

If you don't mind, I wanted to make a couple of points. Most window manufacturers are very local, so what they produce on the west coast may not be readily available on the east coast. Vinyl windows still come in different colors other than white, sometimes brown or a beige/tan color. Unless they are a very high grade, thick mil, there can be serious problems with them, too, in less than 20 years. Not crazy about vinyl at all.

When I built my own house in downtown Philly, I also went with aluminum clad wood windows, but from Pella. Also very expensive, but I felt they were worth it on resale and comfort while I lived there. Very beautiful windows for sure. I lived in a historical district and I can't imagine would have happened if I tried to put in white, vinyl windows.

Since living in Florida, I must tell you that windows are a whole-different-animal down here. Everything I've seen is aluminum, never seen a vinyl window here yet. They weigh 10x what a vinyl window weighs. Forget wood because of the ocean/salt water. The quality of the aluminum window is superb. They are insanely expensive and take longer to install. The glass can stop a coconut coming in at 160 mph, everything is approved to Miami-Dade hurricane codes. Big difference from up north.

KUDOS to Sliding Sash Andy, too. Loved what you wrote about windows in the UK. What a pity to hear of so many great, wooden windows being torn out, but it's been happening here for decades. Brits have patience refinishing and rebuilding. Yanks want 'em disposable, unfortunately (my opinion only).
By Chrisd,  Sat Sep 18 2010, 09:19
Hi Vishwa,

Good blog, but may I make one important correction regarding the FIBERGLASS painting option.

You're right that you can paint it at any time in its 75 year life - but once you have done, you will still have low maintenance. Because - The only thing we normally paint is wood, and we have to keep painting that regularly because it is constantly moving and breathing as humidity changes. That is what breaks down the surface coating, which must be maintained for protection, otherwise this deterioration will accelerate.

Fiberglass, however, is inert, so even after you paint it, it isn't going to move, expand, breath or anything, so there is no need to ever touch it again if you don't choose to. But the option remains open for you.
In my humble opinion, it's the best window material by a country mile!!!

Hey Scott, I love the imagery you created with the 160 mph coconut! Fantastic!!

Cheers Chris Dixon
By Micheal Verns,  Thu Sep 30 2010, 02:18
I would go for vinyl when it comes to windows and doors but then its all in the taste of the owner. Roofering Contractors Austin
By All Texexterior,  Wed Nov 3 2010, 05:32
Building homes and even repairing is really a big problem especially to those who have no ideas on what to do. Just make it sure that the home furniture repair contractor is one of the best.

Siding Repair Houston
By Alexquinn82,  Thu Sep 1 2011, 22:07
Last year I bought replacement windows New Jersey and couldn't be happier. After having old wood windows forever that were hard to open and did not help with keeping my oil bill down, I decided it was time. Even though the process can be annoying at first buying replacement windows can be a great for appearance, investment, and of course reducing your energy costs. I recommend taking a look at this site if you are in the NJ area http://www.tristatewindowandsiding.com/index.html
By Eagel Windows And Door,  Fri Apr 20 2012, 04:54
Replacing old windows provides an opportunity to update the look of your house and increase the energy efficiency of you home..There are a variety of styles, materials and frames to chose from when you are shopping..Eagle Windows and Door

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