This will be effective July 1, 2010. So now the seller will take yet another loss. It could easily cost the seller $10,000.00. There are alot of homes that will fall in this category. Can we say overkill??

Edie Skillen
Legendary Sales, Inc
Pensacola, FL
850-982-5419
http://www.edieskillen.com

Real estate keeps getting more and more difficult. What a nightmare. I didn't think it could get any worse after the Chinese Drywall debacle which will be going on for the next 10-20 years, too.

Scott Miller, Realty Associates, Boca Raton, FL

I have the same problem as Bettye Krieter.
I purchased my home Dec 23, 2009 and home had aluminum wiring and had a leak in the roof. Prior to closing the bank said they would put the $3500 in escrow to make sure the roof was fixed and we were able to close. At closing our first insurance company said it ( AL wiring) wasn't an issue but a month AFTER closing we were cancelled and had to go to Citizens, all was fine. WRONG! They said we needed to pigtail the AL wire to copper. We did and paid $1000 to have it done, now the SOB's want to cancel us? It's like trying to hit a moving target????

I'm thinking of suing my first insurance company because they took my bargaining chip away by not letting me know about the aluminum wiring issue up front! EVERY INSURANCE COMPANY I'VE ASKED FOR A QUOTE ASKS IF YOU HAVE ALUMINUM WIRING FIRST. If you have it they tell you they cannot get you coverage. >:(

My Pensacola Realtor advised me of this 'Insurance Nightmare' aluminum wiring fact last week. My house was built in 1972 and has aluminum wiring. Last week, my Gulf Power Meter short circuited and caused a 200 amp service panel short circuit which in turn fried my AC System Capacitor and Clothes Dryer circuit. Excellent Customer Service calls by Gulf Power, Scapin Electric, and Quiqley AC. No cost to me whatsoever. This is the 3rd Gulf Power Meter to short circuit in less than 15 years. Old subdivision and original transformer here in Ridgefield 2. Brand new meter box, meter, 200 amp service panel with aluminum alloy circuit breakers and service bars. New Gulf Power aluminum underground wiring replaced about 4 years ago. Hmmmmm ??? Aluminum? Aluminum Alloy? Yup. 2010. Go figure.

So, in response to this I went to Home Depot to shop for a new 100 Amp Interior Service Panel to replace my 38 year old service panel. The local professional estimate was $750 and about a one day job. Guess what. ALL the new service panels have aluminum contact circuit breakers that attach to aluminum 120vac service bars. Wow. Go figure. The Home Depot Rep explained how ALL of the Commercial and Residential Service Panels and Circuit Breakers used aluminum alloy extensively. Copper is too expensive. Copper wiring in your post 1980 home working now with brand new aluminum alloy circuit breakers and service panels? Who would have guessed? Insurers refusing to underwrite new policies on our pre-1980 NW Florida homes because of aluminum wiring? We are being forced to decide between rewiring for about $15,000 with new Aluminum Alloy Service Panels and Circuit Breakers to replace our Aluminum Service Panels and Aluminum Alloy Circuit Breakers? Pretty sure that explanation is right next to the word 'Insanity' in the dictionary.

The estimate I got from a local provider to rewire my home, 1700sqft 3/2/2, was $10,000 and another $2-3,000 to repair the sheet rock damage. Repainting the entire interior was 'strongly recommended'. So, 4 years ago my house appraised for $275,000. Today it is worth about $170K. Maybe. I am receiving professional advice to rewire the aluminum circuits, remodel the kitchen and bathrooms, relandscape, and repair all the damage and repaint the interior from the rewiring job, and then be prepared to accept $150,000 IF an offer even comes along.

Do the math and you can see where the professional advice to 'invest' about $35,000 in order to sell at a paper loss of about $160,000 prior to closing costs defies rational logic.

If I could just get every Seller in NW Florida to pull their homes off the market I'll be we'd get one heckuva rebound in prices overnight.

Supply and Demand. It's that simple....

So, as a Pensacola Native Son I have decided that the most prudent course of action is to take care of my home and believe what the scientists and engineers have to say about aluminum wiring. It is as safe as copper as long as you don't exceed the circuit amp values by sheer acts of stupidity. I.E. plugging in about a dozen appliances to one socket and overheating the circuit. Do that and you will understand the limits of aluminum vs. copper. Copper wires simply handle that type of stupid behavior a little better.

My neighbors did exactly that about 5 years ago. Their house caught fire, burned to the ground due to no water in the Ferry Pass fire hydrants, and then moved in to their brand new 'copper wire' home 8 months later.

For the record I have decided NOT to replace my 38 year old aluminum service panel with a new aluminum alloy service panel. It works just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you are looking for someone to blame start in Tallahassee where our elected officials work with the Insurance Industry and be sure to vote in November.

Home Sweet Home.

I am working with Channel 3 News here in Pensacola to run a story on this problem... if you have a nightmare to share - local homeowner, scalded buyer or agent, please call or email me at 850-554-0694 or hollylovett@kw.com and I'll give you the reporter's contact information. She called me yesterday & is ready to run with this!! Holly Lovett

Rodney, thanks for your updates. I will be checking with the local builders I know, as I have heard of no builders using aluminum wiring in today's newer homes!! The problem with HO-8 or surplus lines policies is that most lenders will not accept this type of insurance coverage. Each lender may be different and it will be up to the buyer to find out what type of policy they need. Recent example - within the last two weeks a house on my street lost a buyer because they could not find insurance, especially "affordable" insurance. The sellers could not afford to rewire, so they had to take their house off the market.

As far as the copalum connectors, no one from Citizens or my local agent even asked about this when insuring my home. Of course, my home is not yet 30 years old and I was not required to have a 4-point inspection.

Rodney, do you have statistics on actual claims from aluminum wiring fires? I've asked for this information from the Florida Insurance Commission office and they do not seem to have anything concrete to furnish.

Thanks for your input...keep us posted!

I HAVE BEEN AN ELECTRICAN IN THIS AREA FOR MANY YEARS. I AM A MASTER ELECTRICAN AND AN INSTRUCTOR AT PJC. I TEACH THE MEN THE NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE TO PREPARE THEM TOTAKE THEIR MASTER AND JOURNEYMAN TEST. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE SMALL ALUMINUM WIRES THE WERE USED TO POWER THE OUTLETS AND SWITCHES HAVE CAUSED FIRES IN THE PAST. THE LARGE ALUMINUM WIRES THAT ARE USED TO POWER THE NOW ARE APPROVED FOR THE PURPOSE BY THE NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE. THESE WIRES HAVE NOT CAUSED THE PROBLEMS THAT THE SMALL WIRES WERE CAUSING. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE MADE A BLANKET STATEMENT ABOUT ALUMINUM WIRE. I NOW WORK AT AN ELECTRICAL SUPPLY STORE. WE SELL THE LARGE ALUMINUM WIRE TO ALL THE ELECTRICAL COMPANIES THAT WIRE THE NEW HOUSES. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE STATEMENT WAS ABOUT HOUSES BUILT BEFORE 1980. WHAT ABOUT HOUSES THAT ARE BEING BUILT TODAY? IS THIS GOING TO EFFECT THESE NEW HOUSES? THE INSURANCE COMPANIES NEED TO MAKE A STATEMENT AS TO WHAT WIRES THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE HOUSING INDUSTRY HAS SUFFERED ALOT DUE TO THE NEW 2008 CODES FOR TAMPER RESISTANT OUTLETS AND THE ARC FAULT BREAKERS. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ABOUT HOW THEY MADE THEIR DECISION. I AGREE WITH NANCY HUMPHREY THE WE NEED TO SEE THE UNDERWRITING GUIDELINES. WHAT NEXT?

Just wanted to mention that we got a quote to rewire our 1575 sq ft house "to bring it up to current codes" per the "state mandate." The estimate is $8,000 to $10,000 for the electrical, plus the cost of replacing the drywall that has to be torn out and then the cost to repaint the interior of our house. We were also told we'll have to move out of our house for at least one month for the work to be done. So all told we're talking close to $15,000. We are new retirees on a fixed income and don't have that kind of money available. Electricians and contractors require payment in full, not monthly payments. Also, we can't get a "home improvement loan" because our house is now considered "uninsurable" because of the aluminum wiring. We were also told our house now has "zero value." We bought the house 18 mos. ago for $217,000. (teshobbs@aol.com)

My mother in law had a stroke in Feb and is in a nursing home. We remodeled the 1972 house in Niceville and have it up for sale. Today our realtor called and told us the issue with aluminum wiring and that the house is apparently un-insurable. We are at a complete loss as what to do, there just isn't $10K available for us to fix this. How can they do this, especially at this time of depressed housing? We just went from having to sell cheap to not being able to sell (or insure) at all.

There is no mandate stating that FL insurance companies can not insure aluminum wiring - it is up to the individual company. I have a buyer that just got insurance. We were in an uproar after reading this blog and thinking we could not get insurance - all to find out it was not true.

To Leslie Jones, what insurance carrier did your buyer use? I currently have a home in Fort Walton Beach up for sale and I have found only one carrier (Gulf Coast Insurance who use TAPCO which is pricey) but they will write a policy on homes with aluminum wiring.

The reason TAPCO can write a policy is because they are a brokerage service. This is they the pricing they offered me(based on the info I provided on the home)
3 months = $802.44
6 months = 1522.05
1 year contract $3.044.10
You can do a month to month but must rewrite the contract each time. TAPCO will reimburse the homeowners if they sell their homes less 25% (but only on policies 6months or longer, 3 months is nonrefundable).

We have sent a letter to Congressman Miller and I have been calling Gov. Crists office.

READY TO GO TO THE NEWS MEDIA and NEWPAPER with this one as alot of people in the state of FL is unaware of this. I spoke to Gulf Power this morning and had no idea this was happening and wants to know more about the mandate. Has anyone seen a copy of this and how do I get a copy?

Jennifer Willis,
850 368 4037
315 982 3931

Hello folks and Happy New Year! It seems there haven't been any updates on the aluminum wiring issue. Personally, I am getting quotes to totally rewire my home...in the near future. Thankfully, my current carrier renewed our policy in November, 2010, so I have another year of coverage. If anyone has any new information, please post it here!

Hello my name is Dustin with Selectricity. I personnaly have re-wired at least 15 houses with aluminum. We leave the larger stranded aluminum wiring for the appliances. Like Tom mentioned above, we wire new houses with the larger wire all the time. When we re-wire a house we do not damage the sheet rock . If we do it is very minor damage. You need to make sure you are clear with the contractor you choose about the wall and ceiling damage. Otherwise you could end up with well over 2 thousand in wall and ceiling repair.
Unfortunately Insurance companies do not want to take any risk these days. This will continue to be a issue until someone agrees to insure a house with aluminum wiring.

What percentage of fires in Pensacola in the last 30 years have been attributed to aluminum wiring?
I have aluminum wiring and had it checked. We've never had an issue.

Schneekalt
Call around and ask about TAPCO Lords of London Insurance, MY co-associate just had them insure a home with aluminum wiring. Contact me if you need a company to contact

Thanks, Selectricity, for your comments on aluminum wiring. I agree that this is not going away and we just have to deal with it. When I get ready to rewire, I will give you guys a call!

Older homes are getting more expensive to insure. If you live in Pensacola, try calling Bobby Emmons at Thompson Walden Insurance for a quote. Good luck!

GOOD NEWS !!! All of the above posts scared me needlessly. I just got my house insured for $1,275. Of course, you have to meet their criteria as you would with any other insurance company. After asking me all his questions about my house and giving me my quote, I said "Wait a minute, I just spent $6,000 getting rid of my aluminum branch wiring and you didn't ask anything about that!". He responded that It's not a question they ask because it has no affect on wether or not we will insure your home or how much we will charge. Unbelievable! This is a long time, well known, reputable insurance company that has been recommended more than once. And the agent lives in Tallahassee! Forget everything you read in the above posts!!! This post should be at the top so it will be read.

My house was built in 1975, The carrier is Liberty Mutual. I did need proof of a wind mitigation. Although he asked general questions about my roof, ac/heating unit etc., I did not need proof of a 4-point inspection.

Eugene.. you asked "What percentage of fires in Pensacola in the last 30 years have been attributed to aluminum wiring?"

The answer is no one really can answer that question. I called the Fire Marshals office in Tallahassee and asked if there is data that breaks down Electrical fires; copper vs aluminum. Guess what there is not such data. All they record is the distribution or material first ignited.

FYI everyone....regarding Tim's earlier post about Liberty Mutual Insurance. I just got off the phone with their Tallahassee, Florida office. I specifically asked if they are writing homeowner's insurance coverage for any home with aluminum wiring. The person helping me verified and said NO...they are NOT writing coverage on any home with aluminum wiring. If you would like to call and verify, their number is: 850.521.0085.

I was excited thinking that maybe there was a regular carrier writing coverage; I used to have coverage with them. Sadly, this is not true:(

I'm not sure, but it may have been who he talked to at Liberty Mutual. The person I spoke with wasn't sure at first, so she put me on hold to verify the correct information. She did state that they do not write coverage for homes with aluminum wiring. I don't like all the confusion surrounding this issue. Bottom line is this...when Citizens Insurance, our insurer of "last resort" won't write coverage, then none of the other companies in Florida will write coverage, EXCEPT surplus lines. Surplus lines are not regulated by the State of Florida and the premiums are much, much more. This information was supplied to me by the Florida Insurance Commissioners Office.

I bought the 1975 home in 1995 and homeowner's insurance was $400 with State Farm. After Erin and Opal, that price tripled. I switched to Nationwide for a lower rate then after Ivan, it went up again, where last year, I paid $1.500. When Nationwide decided not to renew my insurance when it expires this month, Royal Palm took over my policy for $3,300. After wind mitigation and removing aluminum branch wiring, it went down to $2,150. Then I got a quote in Feb. from Gulf Stream for $1,550. Finally, I got a quote from Liberty Mutual for $1,250. And I still insist that I was told they will insure homes with aluminum branch wiring and I was on a mission to spread what I thought was good news. Well, now I'm thinking I may have misunderstood something. If so, I owe everyone reading this a sincere apology. Wow! By the way, the electricians (Jim Martin Elec.) that rewired my home did so without ANY damage to the sheetrock or paneling! Even the wires that went horizontally (like under windows).That, I'll swear by and the county inspector and Van Deese (who did the wind mitigation and 4-point inspections) will verify. The inspector showed me pictures he took of sheetrock damage done by other electricians in other homes recently. Unbelievable!!! For $6,000, they brought the entire electrical system up to 2008 code (much more than just replacing aluminum wiring). It took them 7 working days and I was able to stay in my home.

after doing some research on this issue and having my blood pressure boil I have been in touch with my State Reps office. The staff member that I talked to has asked me to email him the information. I did that this morning.

On the States CFO web site they say that "most insurers have determined that homes wired with aluminum have an increased risk for fire. Most, it not all, insurers have submitted a change in their underwriting criteria to the OIR. "
SO i called the OIR in mississippi and they have not issues with aluminum wires, the same goes for Alabama. It is just FLORIDA....
The CFO website also states " Since there is currently no legislation in place preventing a company from excluding coverage to homes wired with aluminum, the OIR has no choice bot to approve the underwriting change."
I am sure that someone had to ask for statistical data, I called the State Fire Marshals office and they DO NOT track electrical fires by type (copper vs aluminum)Also, I have found is that in 2008 Citizens insurance was looking at a $223 million investment loss and if we remember the insurance companies wanted to not write ANY home owner polices after the 2004/2005 hurricane season....... its an assumption but, it would seem that this is an out for the insurance industry to help recover from the losses of 6 years ago.

It is true that aluminum wires do pose a fire risk but then again so does copper. As long as people over load circuits and not maintain their home...... fire department will have a job regardless of what wire material is used.

I suggest that everyone that has a vested interest in this write and call your state rep. Over load their phone banks. The can not ignore us for ever......... Remember the septic tank inspection they passed.... enough people created a STINK about that and had it put on hold........ Please everyone be proactive and push Tallahassee on this and wake them up..

Hey all..... read this GOOD NEWS........... http://www.pnj.com/article/20110315/NEWS01/103150314/1006/news01/Homeowners-dodge-total-rewire-Citizens-Insurance-approves-much-cheaper-fix-aluminum-wiring

The blog was absolutely fantastic! Lots of great information and inspiration, both of which we all need!

I have bought a home recently and it has aluminum wiring in the 50 amp breakers for the range and AC. Sawgrass Mutual found it after we closed and have cancelled me. I can only get one other carrier to write a policy besides citizens and the other carrier is significantly more. I have called eight electricians which have all told me this is crazy and the house is completely to code. Sawgrass agrees on that it is to code but won't cover the house. The electricians have stated they currently wire new homes this way. More and more new homes being wired this way due to the cost of copper. This is crazy and I am now out over $600 and furious.

Sen Gaetz was on an WSRE Legislative Forum this week, and I posted a question to him: Are you doing anything about the plight of hownowners with aluminum wiring? He answered that it is no longer a problem, and that Citizens, State Farm and others are renewing policies. I am skeptical, so, Nancy, are you closing on houses with aluminum wiring? Is it truly now a non-issue, and people can get their newly purchased homes insured?

Sheila...please forward the attachment to me @ nancybhumphrey@cox.net!

There are currently two methods of repairing aluminum wiring. 1. COPALUM 2. ALUMICONN If one of these are done, then Citizens will insure you. Also, there may be some other companies coming onboard to insure as well. You will need to check with your local insurance agents availability and rates. When considering one of these methods (vs totally rewiring), consult your electrician for the best information.

Does anyone know if any other companies besides Citizens are covering aluminum with the fix?? I went with Tapco until this all gets sorted out???

Thanks for reply Nancy. As of last month I was told only Citizens writing at that time. I choose the Tapco cruddy policy and hoping it all shakes out but doesnt look like anything is changing. Going to have to go with the cheaper of 2 fixes after the 1st of the year!

Sheila, would you mind sending me a copy of the attachment on the update from the Consumer Product Service Commission Vote Update of April 13,2011? Really important to us as we are trying to get quotes on a home we are in the middle of purchasing.
Thank you.
rschindler4@yahoo.com

Sheila...I do not think anyone else will write coverage for homes that have the AlumiConn repair, except for Citizens. If you totally rewire your home, then you might have other company options, depending on the age and location of your home. The way my insurance agent explained this was....insurance companies will write in certain zip code areas until they have reached their maximum exposure for that area. Once they reach this, they will close this area for new policies. This has happened in many areas of Pensacola. That is not to say they won't open them at a later date, however. It is very frustrating to homebuyers and sellers alike!

I still have aluminum wiring in my home and will probably totally rewire when the time comes, especially if I want to sell it and get the very best price.

Let me know if you have any additional questions, and if you find someone willing to write, please let us all know!

Thanks!

Nancy Humphrey, Broker Associate
Main Street Properties
850-206-5526

I contacted Tallahassee, Senators, and others locally and elsewhere, trying to find out latest info re AL wiring & problems, but no reassuring responses. We received notice of our insurance non-renewal and found out we can't get insurance except thru Lords of London, which is not regulated by the State. Can't find stats re # of fires caused by AL wiring, no justification, just "risk of exposure" from ins. companies I've talked with. Do we have grounds for a Class Action Law Suit? or other means to get these insurance issues under control. I'm so frustrated with all the 'officials' I've talked with and no one wants to do anything or take any action. I now have a home that is worth 0 and can't sell it without putting in $$$ and finding someone who isn't afraid to buy it. This whole issue has made our homes worthless!!! I'm mad and want to do something. We need to join forces and do something...unfortunately I don't know what to do, except what I've already done and gotten no where. This is not going away, but growing, involving more and more homeowners daily. Any suggestions? Thanks!

There seems to be alot of misinformation circulating as to who will/will not insure with aluminum wiring. Since I have aluminum wiring in my own home, this is of special interest to me. I keep in close touch with my insurance agent regarding this issue. Citizens Insurance will not insure a home with aluminum wiring...UNLESS you have done the Alumicon update, which is changing out the switches, outlets, light receptacles, etc. If you do that method, Citizens will insure. There are surplus lines companies (Lloyds of London) who will insure a home with aluminum wiring, however, it is an HO-8 policy and the premiums are higher.

Long story short, if you have aluminum wiring, you either rewire, do the Alumicon method, pay for a surplus lines policy or pray your current insurance carrier doesn't cancel you!

Thanks, Nancy

Nancy, do you know the names of the representatives who were contacted and their responses (all in writing of course). Any comment as to why other insurance companies have not followed suit with Citizens Insurance Company regarding aluminum wiring? It would seem the state of Florida would at least offer an assistance program similar to the ones for hurricane upgrades.

Sheila....do not have any names of the representatives. The other insurance companies did follow Citizens in not writing homes with aluminum wiring...just check with your local insurance agent and you will find out. And Rick....not sure how to answer this. I am as frustrated as everyone else, since I have aluminum wiring in my own home! Try getting a straight answer...if you do, please let me know.

Amy...check with the independent insurance agencies in town for a quote from Lloyds of London....i.e. Thompson Walden Insurance, Sue Todaro Insurance, Hiles-McLeod Insurance, etc. Good luck!

Has anyone heard that the Alumni-Con modification to aluminum wiring will not be acceptable to insurance companies within the next two or three years? If anyone has any information concerning this, would appreciate your response. Thank you.

We purchased a bank owned home with a “Home Warranty” When we applied for insurance we discovered it had Aluminum wiring and a bad entrance box. The warranty company refused to cover anything including a faulty air conditioner because we didn’t get a “home inspection”. We replaced the entrance ($1300) and the A/C unit. Does any one know if either the bank or warranty co are share any of the liability in this?

Resources like the one you mentioned here will be very useful to me! I will post a link to this page on my blog. I am sure my visitors will find that very useful.

You are welcome!

Thank you Stacey for giving us all your contact information. I will be contacting you.

Apparently Citizens (Administered by the State of FL) will no longer insure homes even with the Alumicon OR Comalum connectors. I know this because not only were we unable to insure our home through Citizens but my best friend received a notice from Citizens saying her insurance was to be cancelled unless she had her home rewired! This is really ridiculous... I am certain the insurance commissioner will not step in because the state of FL is financially vested in Citizens. However I read today that there is a class action lawsuit against Citizens because of overvaluation of homes for insurance purposes! ( Which has earned the state of Florida a pretty penny....no doubt) My point in all this is that it is clear, that this is less about wires and more about profits for the State of Florida. If they can deny insurance to a huge number of homes... they save in the long run when, if there is a natural disaster... FEMA can cover those without insurance!! I am motivated to find a way to stop this. Elections are soon... Vote out those in state and local offices who are not willing to help homeowners with this insurance issue!!! Time to get rid of the current insurance commissioner.

We are a buyer and have found a house in cordova park that we want to buy which contains aluminum wiring. I contacted Citizens and two other insurance companies this week and they all said that they wouldn't insure the house as long as it has aluminum wiring.

So, as the buyer, I am trying to understand how to purchase the house. The seller wants to close on the house first and put up some money into escrow for us to use to rewire the house after the closing is complete. But it's my understanding that we won't be able to close as long as it has the aluminum wire since we won't be able to get insurance...sort of a catch 22. Based on what I have read, it seems the only choice we have is move on from this house or convince the sellers to rewire before we close.

Thoughts?

Nancy, is Citizen's totally not insuring homes with aluminum wiring now or is it on a case by case basis? Citizen's recently assigned our policy to another company and have to assume the new company is aware of our aluminum wiring. Thanks.

Anyone planning to challenge this to the Florida Insurance Commissioner?

Lots of good info here. My mother in law has a house in Titusville with Al wirng.
If I have the house mitigated with the copalum pigtail, $2800 v $10,000 for a rewire, wi I still have extreme difficulty when it comes time to sell. that is, is the copalum fix a waste of money in the long run?

Also, with zero value, can we appeal the real estate valuation to zro worth?

I wish we all could find a good lawyer who would represent all of us as political victims of this state's policy. More and more, even before the cancellation notice on my Dad's insurance after 40 years' coverage, I have noticed the state's and insurance companies' add ons for this and that to recover their costs of hurricane events. We are not just paying for our own insurance but for everyone else who lives on barrier islands and gets to look at the water, as well as for the state and its convoluted politics. This aluminum scam is just another brick in the wall. For Shame! Suzanne.

The aluminum wiring issues really became "an issue" in the summer of 2010. Sounds like you bought your home and were insured before then. They could come back and cancel you. If you are planning to sell, consider rewiring with copper so a new buyer can get a homeowner's insurance policy.